Disappointed with the D unveiling

[AnxietyRanger]

It ceased to be private between you and Tesla the moment you brought it to the Internet. You are as much a catalyst for forcing a reaction on the part of Tesla for PR than the person who started the petition, and the other guy who wants to start a class action lawsuit.

Oh dear.

 

[breser]

It ceased to be private between you and Tesla the moment you brought it to the Internet. You are as much a catalyst for forcing a reaction on the part of Tesla for PR than the person who started the petition, and the other guy who wants to start a class action lawsuit.

Thanks for making me laugh. Seriously, my posts on this forum are not some huge PR issue for Tesla. Given the variety of other people complaining in other threads that pretty clearly haven't read a word of what I've said, some of whom are far more upset and demanding than me, I'm not even remotely a problem.

There are plenty of owners that read this forum, but given the abuse I've taken I think Tesla shouldn't worry too much. There are far more visible places to be complaining that will reach a far less forgiving audience of the public at large. Such as a petition posted on Reddit or in a court of law. Regardless of any merit (there is none) to a law suit against Tesla it'll get media attention far and wide. Me writing in this forum is utterly inconsequential in comparison. I might as well be putting my thoughts in a bottle and throwing it in the Pacific.

If I was a major PR problem for Tesla I don't think I'd have no response to my email to ownership on Friday.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

Thanks for making me laugh. Seriously, my posts on this forum are not some huge PR issue for Tesla. Given the variety of other people complaining in other threads that pretty clearly haven't read a word of what I've said, some of whom are far more upset and demanding than me, I'm not even remotely a problem.

There are plenty of owners that read this forum, but given the abuse I've taken I think Tesla shouldn't worry too much. There are far more visible places to be complaining that will reach a far less forgiving audience of the public at large. Such as a petition posted on Reddit or in a court of law. Regardless of any merit (there is none) to a law suit against Tesla it'll get media attention far and wide. Me writing in this forum is utterly inconsequential in comparison. I might as well be putting my thoughts in a bottle and throwing it in the Pacific.

If I was a major PR problem for Tesla I don't think I'd have no response to my email to ownership on Friday.

You must not have been around here long. The anti-Tesla news media has dug through this forum and quoted posts here on numerous occasions. I even managed to get quoted in some FUD bash short-seller piece after posting charging power consumption on 120V citing "horrible vampire losses" that "made the Model S worse than any gasoline car." That really ticked me off.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Great posts by SCDrJ and DieAbetic on the last page. That's how you build bridges and consensus, guys. Much appreciated.

 

[breser]

You must not have been around here long. The anti-Tesla news media has dug through this forum and quoted posts here on numerous occasions. I even managed to get quoted in some FUD bash short-seller piece after posting charging power consumption on 120V citing "horrible vampire losses" that "made the Model S worse than any gasoline car." That really ticked me off.

Yes and those places are totally going to quote me and not the guy threatening a lawsuit. Trust me lawsuit guy makes better copy. Me saying "Tesla doesn't really owe me anything but they could have and should have done better," doesn't. I'm a teddy bear in comparison.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

You must not have been around here long. The anti-Tesla news media has dug through this forum and quoted posts here on numerous occasions. I even managed to get quoted in some FUD bash short-seller piece after posting charging power consumption on 120V citing "horrible vampire losses" that "made the Model S worse than any gasoline car." That really ticked me off.

You have every right feeling wronged by such media.

But that doesn't diminish the right of likes of breser to air their grievances and get a reasonable response from the community. I don't think that has quite manifested itself here now. Posts like SCDrJ and DieAbetic have restored some of my faith in the progress of discussion, though.

 

[bonnie]

You have every right feeling wronged by such media.

But that doesn't diminish the right of likes of breser to air their grievances and get a reasonable response from the community. I don't think that has quite manifested itself here now. Posts like SCDrJ and DieAbetic have restored some of my faith in the progress of discussion, though.

I don't think anyone was implying that breser didn't have a right to air his grievances. People were merely pointing out his statement that talking about his situation here on the forum was not stirring the pot & would be of no interest to the media has been proven multiple times to be false. They're right. The reason so many of us have the signature tag that I do is because we were tired of being misquoted by lazy journalists looking for a soundbite.

Again, no one said anyone didn't have a right to speak. It was about assuming that things spoken here were unobserved by outside parties. That's naive.

 

[Beavis]

You have every right feeling wronged by such media.

But that doesn't diminish the right of likes of breser to air their grievances and get a reasonable response from the community. I don't think that has quite manifested itself here now. Posts like SCDrJ and DieAbetic have restored some of my faith in the progress of discussion, though.

and I would add that the posters airing their grievances have gotten a reasonable response. There is a lot of healthy debate. Only a little bit of name calling and some people tired of it all. I'd say it's pretty reasonable and meets my expectations.

 

[breser]

I don't think anyone was implying that breser didn't have a right to air his grievances. People were merely pointing out his statement that talking about his situation here on the forum was not stirring the pot & would be of no interest to the media has been proven multiple times to be false. They're right. The reason so many of us have the signature tag that I do is because we were tired of being misquoted by lazy journalists looking for a soundbite.

Again, no one said anyone didn't have a right to speak. It was about assuming that things spoken here were unobserved by outside parties. That's naive.

I'd actually wondered what the signature tags were about but didn't see any explanation about it. Chock my naivety about this up to being new to the forum. I've followed Tesla but I certainly have not read the forum until after I ordered.

Tesla has proven to be very good at responding to negative publicity. I don't really think we need to protect them by not having frank conversations about our experiences.

 

[bonnie]

I'd actually wondered what the signature tags were about but didn't see any explanation about it. Chock my naivety about this up to being new to the forum. I've followed Tesla but I certainly have not read the forum until after I ordered.

Tesla has proven to be very good at responding to negative publicity. I don't really think we need to protect them by not having frank conversations about our experiences.

Again, NO ONE was saying not to have a frank conversation. What people ARE saying is that it is simply not true that outside parties don't notice the conversations that take place on this forum.

I don't know how I could say that more clearly, but I'm obviously missing the mark somehow.

 

[Krugerrand]

There are far more visible places to be complaining that will reach a far less forgiving audience of the public at large. Me writing in this forum is utterly inconsequential in comparison. I might as well be putting my thoughts in a bottle and throwing it in the Pacific.

Um...no. Not even close.

This forum is not a vacuum. It's on the Internet, therefore worldwide. Your words, all of them, are now out there forever. Tesla has been under a microscope for the last few years and this forum (along with Tesla's own website forum) have been used extensively for source information. I guarantee that your thread and those of others on the same topic will be used, shamelessly, in the coming weeks and months.

Several people on this forum have been quoted (without their permission) and out of context. Rarely are they quoted for the good or benefit of Tesla. So like I said, it ceased to be private between you and Tesla the moment you posted here. And while the petition and lawsuit are likely to get more specific media coverage, don't be surprised when an article on SA shows up in the next few days and there's a link provided to something you said. In fact, I'd bet money it'll happen.

Finally, for the record, Tesla employees also read this forum. It usually doesn't take them much brain power to match forum users to car owners, as has happened several times.

 

[hiroshiy]

Skipped to the last page so I might have missed the similar conversation. I really liked the D and autopilot features, and I will pay if Tesla offers retrofits to these features, once they become usable in Japan. After all lane markings, speed signs and other traffic rules are very different here so I guess it would take more time to adapt to international markets.

That said, I think Tesla could improve communication on this in Japan. They recently announced availability of Model S in September 2014, and just 37 signature owners received their cars (including mine) last month, after months (years) of waiting. In October Tesla announced the D, available in Japanese market in August 2015.
While nobody at Tesla Japan seem like to know the announcement in advance, many owners and reservationists here now feels that Tesla is not prioritizing Japanese customers. Elon seemed to say Japan is the third important market but nobody here believes that now.

It is always difficult to manage customer expectations but with this announcement Tesla lost a fair amount of trust from one of the most royal clients.

BTW I'm a very happy owner of P85. Sounds like sour grapes but 21 inch doesn't fit in my parking, AWD not necessary In Tokyo, speed recognition won't work in Japan (in JP there're default limit values for highways and other roads, and if speed limit is not posted you have to follow the default), autopilot won't be enabled soon, etc.

 

[mhan00]

I agree with you. I'm not sure why some here are angry, and for some reason got offended just because some others expressed their disappointment.

Let's agree to disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. People tend to have different opinions and that's normal. If you don't like this topic, move on to the next one.

Nothing wrong with being disappointed. But there are people demanding Tesla somehow retrofit the options in, or buy back their vehicles for what they paid or close to it, or who are claiming Tesla tricked them into buying the car, which is ridiculous.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

That is how tech companies handle new product rollouts and Tesla should as well. Giving some group of buyers sensors and not another, who ordered at the same time, is crap. This shows disorganization inside of Tesla and a disconnect between sales/marketing and manufacturing. It seems that manufacturing does what it wants to and then the rest of the company is left to pick up the pieces. This is not a sustainable strategy and is one that will tick off a lot of people. The fix is simple. Announce and then ship, not the other way around.

- - - Updated - - -



It's easy to tell people how to feel if you are not impacted by the events being discussed. Put yourself in the shoes of someone in this situation. Even though I bought my car over a year ago, I can understand why people are upset that others who ordered at the same time received additional hardware that would enable some exciting features in the near future. Those who don't have the hardware are being cut out of that, and for no other reason than a decision made at the factory level.

That's not cool. Saying that customers got what they paid for is obvious, but some clearly received more than what they paid for at the same time as the others. That's not how you treat customers. You can tell people how to feel until you're blue in the face, but human nature is human nature. If Tesla wants to stop pissing off customers, they need to understand and address this issue.

A good example of Tesla's internal and external comm problems; this is the one area in which they continue to screw up, and I'm speaking as a two-time buyer.

Right now I too am very disappointed, especially after writing Tesla to query about these specific features at the time our order was being finalized, only to receive an emailed "no knowledge of . . . " comment. Obviously, these changes did not occur in the weeks/months since they sent me that email so a large part of Tesla Motors staff was kept in the dark, yet there was at least one MS with the sensor suite being prepped for delivery on the day we were convinced that we should pick up our car....

I find Breser's and Balabanshik's, et als, comments to be quite erudite, and hope that Tesla steps up and does the right things to assuage those of us that paid a lot, but for a lot less car.

As previously stated by others: The "D" roll out was done well; the "A" roll out was unacceptable.

 

[breser]

Believe we have the first news article:
Tesla anger: Recent Model S buyers cry foul over new features - San Jose Mercury News

As I expected, petition guy is getting all the attention.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

Believe we have the first news article:
Tesla anger: Recent Model S buyers cry foul over new features - San Jose Mercury News

As I expected, petition guy is getting all the attention.

I found it interesting that the arguments in the comments section of the article largely mirrored the debate here at TMC. I did notice a hater or two also joining the fray.

 

[dsm363]

So the guy drives the car for 1,000 miles and is surprised the value went down?

 

[AmpedRealtor]

No. Tesla makes changes on the line all the time. They can do whatever they like with their cars.

The bottom line is... you got exactly the car you paid for.

Nowhere in the contract does it say that car such an such has the autopilot hardware. You weren't cheated out of anything.

What are they supposed to do? Shut down the line for a month? That's not going to happen.

If you read what I said, I didn't say any of the things you suggest. I'm also not one who has an issue, my car is 14 months old and I love it. My post was specific to what Tesla could do to address customer satisfaction. Of course Tesla can do what it wants. Duh. Obviously what happened was due to miscommunication and disorganization inside of Tesla. You don't release a product before the formal announcement. That is bad management. You can defend Tesla all you want, but you probably are not aware of how tech companies handle product rollouts. If you were, you would see how Tesla misstepped.

Tesla doesn't need you to defend them. They are big boys and can take the feedback.

- - - Updated - - -

For the record, I do not yet own a Tesla. I'm currently waiting for my Nissan Leaf lease to expire. That being said, I'm confused by your statement. How is it irresponsible for Tesla to release features prior to an announcement? Why are you thinking in terms of "Some people got screwed" instead of what actually happened, which is "Some people got lucky"? The people who didn't get the new features got EXACTLY what they paid for and what they were expecting when they bought their vehicle. The people who did get the new features got lucky and an unexpected bonus. Their good luck doesn't materially affect a person who got what they paid for. What you're essentially saying is that you'd be happier if no one got lucky than if some people did and you didn't.

I expect Tesla implemented the new feature set as soon as they could for both their own convenience and because they thought they'd be providing a nice surprise to some customers. They clearly underestimated how selfish humans are and how people perceive other people's good fortune somehow as their own bad fortune.

Clearly Tesla screwed up because their front line people had no idea about the product release until 10/9 and many were denying anything has changed. If Tesla honestly meant to release those new sensors into the wild 2 weeks prior to the official announcement, then we would have seen an updated web page and a statement regarding the new features. But what customers got was silence until 10/9. That is the day of the announcement. Keep making cars, but put in the new stuff after you make the announcement. Stop blindly defending Tesla when they made an obvious mistake. It's clear to almost everyone.

If it was intentional, then why didn't they start shipping cars with dual drive then? Why did we have to wait for that announcement? And stop saying "you" as if I am someone who is complaining. I am not. My car is 14 months old and I have no issues with anything other than the fact that Tesla mishandled the release of its new features. I think most here agree about that and are discussing ways Tesla can better handle their future releases so as to avoid a customer backlash. That's what adults do.

 

[dsm363]

Tesla did make a mistake releasing the features early. If they had waited until the announcement you'd still run into someone who was called asking 'would you like to take delivery in a week instead of later this month?' They say yes and their car is produced the day before the announcement and they are angry.

Or Tesla announces they are making an announcement in a month and everyone cancels or delays their order until after the announcement. There will always be someone on the wrong side of an announcement

If there is a good way around this without resorting to model years I'd love to hear it.

 

[breser]

If there is a good way around this without resorting to model years I'd love to hear it.

I think the best solution is just to introduce it as a paid option. Then turn it into standard after that. If you wanted the option enough to pay for it and delay your car then you'd get it. If you didn't care about it much then you wouldn't want to pay for it and delay your delivery. This is exactly what is happening with the D (wouldn't be surprised at some point if D isn't just standard). So they could have just added the option back around June and then removed it in October.

This would still lead to complaints, but I think there are some key differences in the issue with complaining. From my perspective it's rather frustrating realizing the only solution here is a trade to get the sensors. There's not a lot of hope for a retrofit. The complaints the other way around would be much less severe. People who really wanted the feature would have paid more and waited for their orders. They might complain about paying for it, but the best solution for that is a refund (which is possible, though unlikely). I don't think anyone is surprised about price cuts. Haven't seen any posts about HPWC price cuts for instance. People who kinda wanted the feature but didn't want to pay for it would complain, but the answer is simple if you wanted the option why didn't you order it? Of course you can split people into similar groups with the current situation. But the people who lost the lottery, can't easily solve their problem and they had no choice in the matter.

It's not perfect, but from my perspective it would have been better. If I had known this was soon to be available I would have waited. If I had to pay for it I probably would have. If I hadn't, nobody to blame but myself. Sure I could have just waited for Tesla to put out this functionality, but I had no idea what sort of time frame it was coming in. I was under the impression from the discussions of it publicly it wouldn't appear until mid 2015 at the absolute earliest (and that was an Elon time estimate, which is usually optimistic).

Edit: Just a note, someone got a car with 5.9 on it and had working lane departure and speed assist. 5.9 came out in what April? So I don't think the suggested timeline above would have been impossible for them to do.