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Does anyone ever get rated range?

Model S- Over what % of your driving have you attained the rated range?

  • <5%

    Votes: 60 30.9%
  • 5%-20%

    Votes: 32 16.5%
  • 21%-50%

    Votes: 24 12.4%
  • 51%-80%

    Votes: 38 19.6%
  • 81%-100%

    Votes: 40 20.6%

  • Total voters
    194
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You guys are talking about rated range, but then using wh/mi. They are both important and related to each other. But they are not the same. My long term average consumption rate is 350 wh/mile (driving at average speeds here in southern California). But my ACTUAL range extrapolates to 200 miles. (On a Model S 90D.) I get that 350 is higher than average. But my actual range is 30% less than Rated Range. That is quite irritating. Rated Range, as a range, not a wh/mile, is greatly exaggerated.

Speed is the main determinant of range. The car is slippery in air but the air resistance goes up at the square of the velocity. I can drive 60 and consume 230-240 wh/m, with a/c on. At 75 it goes up a to over 300. I have the standard 19” wheels. There isn't much you can do about wind resistance except slow down. My actual range is usually equal or a little higher than my calculated range. On trips I can see a calculated remaining arrival charge of 9% for instance, at the beginning of a segment of a trip, and at 65 MPH, that number will steadily rise to 18-20% by the time I arrive at the next charger. If I drive 75, that remaining charge percentage will decrease slightly. When I drive through hilly country, I can see the consumption go up to 350 or so.

Why not try testing it by driving at 60 MPH for a battery charge cycle and see if your range goes up above the rated range?
 
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It's a an interesting thought but not true. I have been monitoring the battery temperature over more than a year and over more than 40k miles on my Model S. The battery does not get too warm to fully charge. Especially when you Supercharge to a high level, the battery gets cooled down significantly. Supercharging triggers strong battery cooling. In hot climates on road trips I found that when I charged to around 80% the battery temperature actually ended up being lower than ambient temperature when I was done charging.

The battery will be cooled by the AC when it reaches a very high temperature, but that is a very rare case and hard to do on public roads.
Thanks for the reply but are you sure? Tesla is looking into why the battery would not accept a full charge at the Superchargers on that day and I think averaging over 100-130 mph for stretches of 100 -200 miles might cause the heating issue I’m describing. The next morning it went all the way to 100% again
 
Thanks for the reply but are you sure? Tesla is looking into why the battery would not accept a full charge at the Superchargers on that day and I think averaging over 100-130 mph for stretches of 100 -200 miles might cause the heating issue I’m describing. The next morning it went all the way to 100% again

I'm 100% sure about the temperature. I have been watching the battery temperature and it's interesting to see when the car tries to cool or warm the battery in every possible situation. Temperature is definitely not an issue at the end of a charge session. There are few cases where the battery gets so hot that it affects charging. The car will then reduce the charge rate and cool the battery more aggressive. During Supercharging this works very effective and as I said, even in extremely hot situations the temperature of the battery is much lower than the beginning of a Supercharging session. I have seen other people report their cars not charging to 100% in some situations but it's random and several were in rather cold climates.
 
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...The battery will be cooled by the AC when it reaches a very high temperature, but that is a very rare case and hard to do on public roads.
It might not be battery cooling but when I am running at highway speeds in warm weather the AC is often going full blast when I pull up to a Supercharger Station — even if I have cabin AC off. Same thing as other cars pull in as well. Perhaps motor/inverter cooling? Regardless, I think that it does lower range when driving in warm weather.

Cold has a huge impact. Range starts to drop a bit as you approach freezing. We get real winter here, with temperatures hitting -30C. Wind resistance at these temperatures will reduce range 20-25%. Heating can have a very large impact; if you don't preheat from AC power then a stone-cold car can consume upwards of 700 Wh/mile at first, until it warms up.
In addition to hits from cold air drag/rolling resistance and heater use, a cold battery has limited regen. I saw my regen limited somewhat yesterday at an SOC of 38% and a battery temp in the 10-15ºC range. That's barely cool. When the battery is actually cold regen is really limited a lot. Not a big deal on the flatlands but it is an issue when descending steep mountain hairpin turns and having to control speed with friction brakes.

At the bottom of my big hill I usually coast the next mile up over a small rise. The speed when I get to the top of the rise is a lot lower in winter than summer! Cold matters, as you say. In warm weather a Tesla coasts really well.

For my local driving I am always over rated range. On the highway on road trips I get significantly less than rated range, even in mild weather. Speed limits in the Intermountain West are generally 75-80 mph (121-129 kph) and my car simply can't do rated range at that speed unless going downhill.
 
In addition to hits from cold air drag/rolling resistance and heater use, a cold battery has limited regen. I saw my regen limited somewhat yesterday at an SOC of 38% and a battery temp in the 10-15ºC range. That's barely cool. When the battery is actually cold regen is really limited a lot. Not a big deal on the flatlands but it is an issue when descending steep mountain hairpin turns and having to control speed with friction brakes.

True enough. A cold-soaked battery at -20C has no regen at all. If you warm the car for half an hour (only worth doing if plugged in; otherwise you're just draining the battery) then it will be at 50%.
 
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I'm 100% sure about the temperature. I have been watching the battery temperature and it's interesting to see when the car tries to cool or warm the battery in every possible situation. Temperature is definitely not an issue at the end of a charge session. There are few cases where the battery gets so hot that it affects charging. The car will then reduce the charge rate and cool the battery more aggressive. During Supercharging this works very effective and as I said, even in extremely hot situations the temperature of the battery is much lower than the beginning of a Supercharging session. I have seen other people report their cars not charging to 100% in some situations but it's random and several were in rather cold climates.

Is it possible that the battery was limited to 98% because the pack was warm and the car had software in it to recognize it is approaching full at a Supercharger quickly?

In other words, the pack is accepting recharge faster because of the fast driving and therefore the supercharging was ended at 98%?

Something else would need to explain why my car stopped at 98% at 2 different superchargers.
 
You guys are talking about rated range, but then using wh/mi. They are both important and related to each other. But they are not the same. My long term average consumption rate is 350 wh/mile (driving at average speeds here in southern California). But my ACTUAL range extrapolates to 200 miles. (On a Model S 90D.) I get that 350 is higher than average. But my actual range is 30% less than Rated Range. That is quite irritating. Rated Range, as a range, not a wh/mile, is greatly exaggerated.

Good point. Wh/mi can be an indicator of what range you might get, but the second factor is battery capacity.
In my own case, maybe I am unusual, but I have never taken my car from 100% to 0 in order to see what range I would get. I am not sure that I could create a circumstance in which I could travel a full 240 miles and do so under conditions that would guarantee that I attain at least the corresponding EPA rated Wh/mi (292 for my car) or better. There are many variables as we all know.

So I am surprised that so many people can talk about achieving their rated range (or not).

I do keep an eye on my average energy consumption, and there are times when I can keep the car at or below 292 Wh/mi for a while, typically in the mild weather in early fall or late spring when little heating or AC is needed. So I can infer that i could make the rated range if I used 100% of my battery and if it delivered all 70 kWh. But I doubt I will ever really know....

But maybe some nice fall day when i have nothing else to do, I should give it a try.
 
Good point. Wh/mi can be an indicator of what range you might get, but the second factor is battery capacity.
In my own case, maybe I am unusual, but I have never taken my car from 100% to 0 in order to see what range I would get. I am not sure that I could create a circumstance in which I could travel a full 240 miles and do so under conditions that would guarantee that I attain at least the corresponding EPA rated Wh/mi (292 for my car) or better. There are many variables as we all know.

So I am surprised that so many people can talk about achieving their rated range (or not).

I do keep an eye on my average energy consumption, and there are times when I can keep the car at or below 292 Wh/mi for a while, typically in the mild weather in early fall or late spring when little heating or AC is needed. So I can infer that i could make the rated range if I used 100% of my battery and if it delivered all 70 kWh. But I doubt I will ever really know....

But maybe some nice fall day when i have nothing else to do, I should give it a try.

I highly recommend it.... because if you are like me, you want to experience all life has to offer, something which can only be replicated upon going from 100% to 0%... There are few things that give you the type of thrill that comes with possibly ruining your car while driving 25 miles an hour on a highway shoulder with a flat tire, praying to Elon and all that is holy that you will never ever do something like this again.... definitely try it though! :)
 
Saturday driving for Uber (city/highway) I drove 99 miles and only lost 95 rated miles of range. Sunday I took a leisurely trip on a highway parallel to the interstate, almost 55mph the whole time and drove 57 miles and only lost 47 miles of rated range. On my normal commute to work (Mostly 70mph). I drive 20 miles and usually lose 22 miles of rated range.
 
Saturday driving for Uber (city/highway) I drove 99 miles and only lost 95 rated miles of range. Sunday I took a leisurely trip on a highway parallel to the interstate, almost 55mph the whole time and drove 57 miles and only lost 47 miles of rated range. On my normal commute to work (Mostly 70mph). I drive 20 miles and usually lose 22 miles of rated range.

Interesting way to look at it. On the advice of a number of posts I read in the early days of my Tesla life, I changed to battery gauge to read in percentage rather than in (rated) miles. It was suggested that would help reduce range anxiety. Can't say as I have convinced myself that is true, but I have left it as showing percentage and do not obsess about range. I do constantly observe the energy rate (Wh/mi) but don't do much with it or about it.
 
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Interesting way to look at it. On the advice of a number of posts I read in the early days of my Tesla life, I changed to battery gauge to read in percentage rather than in (rated) miles. It was suggested that would help reduce range anxiety. Can't say as I have convinced myself that is true, but I have left it as showing percentage and do not obsess about range. I do constantly observe the energy rate (Wh/mi) but don't do much with it or about it.
That would cause more range anxiety for me. I would be constantly converting that percentage into miles in my head. I think learning how to get the rated miles killed my range anxiety.
 
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I highly recommend it.... because if you are like me, you want to experience all life has to offer, something which can only be replicated upon going from 100% to 0%... There are few things that give you the type of thrill that comes with possibly ruining your car while driving 25 miles an hour on a highway shoulder with a flat tire, praying to Elon and all that is holy that you will never ever do something like this again.... definitely try it though! :)

Your comment prompted me to think about how I would do this. Even though I have watched some videos and read quite a few posts by people who say they have done this, it strikes me as somewhat daunting. First of course, as you said, if you run short you can find yourself in a tense situation, at best, and possibly in danger of running completely out of juice, or worse.

I took a crack at planning a route. To travel that far (240 miles in my case) would be easiest to do on highways. But then I'd have to worry about going too fast and increasing my Wh/mile rate. And if one takes local roads and travels at a leisurely pace, you could easily (I think) achieve a much lower energy consumption rate than the EPA rate. What would that prove? If you get your rated range while traveling slowly enough (or in nice enough weather, etc.) to achieve a 10 or 20% improvement over the EPA rating, then you prove nothing about your battery when you reach your rated range. So, unless I missed something, to do this right, don't you really have to drive so that the entire trip yields an average energy use matching the one for the rated range? In other words, if I drive at 292 Wh/mile for 240 miles, I should get to zero charge when I get to 240 miles. If I run short, then that means the battery no longer has the capacity to achieve the EPA range. If I get further, it means my battery capacity is greater than advertised.

On the other hand, if one sets out to do this and does not closely control his energy rate, and then you get to either 0% SOC or to the rated range, what have you proven? If your energy use rate is above or below the EPA rate, that may or may not mean anything other than that the conditions (speed, temperature, elevation change, headwind, number of stops, etc.) precluded you from a valid test.

Am I over-thinking this? Or making to too complicated?
 
Your comment prompted me to think about how I would do this. Even though I have watched some videos and read quite a few posts by people who say they have done this, it strikes me as somewhat daunting. First of course, as you said, if you run short you can find yourself in a tense situation, at best, and possibly in danger of running completely out of juice, or worse.

I took a crack at planning a route. To travel that far (240 miles in my case) would be easiest to do on highways. But then I'd have to worry about going too fast and increasing my Wh/mile rate. And if one takes local roads and travels at a leisurely pace, you could easily (I think) achieve a much lower energy consumption rate than the EPA rate. What would that prove? If you get your rated range while traveling slowly enough (or in nice enough weather, etc.) to achieve a 10 or 20% improvement over the EPA rating, then you prove nothing about your battery when you reach your rated range. So, unless I missed something, to do this right, don't you really have to drive so that the entire trip yields an average energy use matching the one for the rated range? In other words, if I drive at 292 Wh/mile for 240 miles, I should get to zero charge when I get to 240 miles. If I run short, then that means the battery no longer has the capacity to achieve the EPA range. If I get further, it means my battery capacity is greater than advertised.

On the other hand, if one sets out to do this and does not closely control his energy rate, and then you get to either 0% SOC or to the rated range, what have you proven? If your energy use rate is above or below the EPA rate, that may or may not mean anything other than that the conditions (speed, temperature, elevation change, headwind, number of stops, etc.) precluded you from a valid test.

Am I over-thinking this? Or making to too complicated?

Hi @David29, I think you are what most people refer to as "wise" or "smart", something which I have not yet attained for longer than 4 weeks at a time. But let me say that hyper-miling for the sake of taking a certain route, is really fun. There isn't so much the desire to do a route to see if the pack can achieve its rated range, though I found it really fascinating to answer the question, "is my car capable of being that efficient?"

For me the thrill of the whole thing can be recreated by watching the Tom Hanks movie Apollo 13.

I started a thread called "Ultimate Road Trip: Austin to Chama, NM" ,and was advised by several much more experienced folks that my route was not ideal, and that I wasn't valuing my time versus driving time.... I certainly listened to everyone, and took this into consideration, and I even planned to take their advice, but I also planned a way to measure my progress along the route so it didn't come down to hoping I would make it. I could break the trip down into Wh/mi for a particular portions of the trip (using EVtripplanner).

The biggest factor, was discovering the app, "Inroute" which is a motorcycle app that lets you chart out the elevation and wind speed at each portion of the route in real time, so you can see the windspeed and direction on your trip before departing and also during the trip.

Like a space x launch, conditions have to be somewhat favorable to do a crazy distance.... in other words, elevation, temperature, and most importantly wind has to be blowing kind of the right way, or you have to adjust your speed accordingly.

I'll spare you the details, but I knew when I was shoving cold packs under my legs and armpits just to get through lubbock with no a/c so I could make it to Santa Rosa, that I was all in.

Now, let me give you a final word of advice... whatever you do, don't pack hot sauce in the same cooler as your cold packs, if you do this and the cap comes off the hot sauce, you may discover (somewhere in Clovis, NM) that hypermiling gives you a burning desire to make it to the destination in all the of the wrong places, if you catch my drift.

The most important thing in all of this is learning which apps to rely on to plan your routes, and to not to trust the Tesla route planning app too much as it will try to protect you for your own stupidity by rerouting you to various chargers once you get below a certain percentage. In these moments, you must trust your planning and remain determined that you will not let some "sophisticated" nanny-state navigation system deprive you of access to your own stupidity! This is America dammit!
 
I regularly drive 100-120 mile trips , and have close to 40K mile son my car in its first year. I very reliably get a rated range performance of ~104-106% of actual miles. This is with the Autopilot set to 75 all the way on the freeway. Of course, this is bay area traffic, so it gets a lot slower in places, but probably 50-70% of the distance is driven at or close to the set speed. I also have the aircon on, usually at 73 . When it's windy or rainy, then the figure is somewhere between 6-12% .
 
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I just finished a 2950 mile trip from Houston, TX to Huntington, WV to Mt Airy, NC and back to Houston with some additional side trips. The average consumption for the entire trip was 268 Wh/mi. That's in a 2015 Model S RWD, 19" wheels, speed limit +5 and Autopilot (AP1) 80+% of the time, 70-90 degree weather with AC set to 72, and no wind or rain the whole trip. Typically, the nav would show something like 30 minutes at the next supercharger stop. Once plugged in, it would estimate higher, like 40 minutes to continue the trip. Returning after 40 minutes, there was much more than enough charge to continue, so 30 minutes was a better guess after all (maybe even high). At the end of each leg, the remaining SOC always ended up higher than the initial estimate, sometimes by as much as 10%. I had no range anxiety since I could count on the rated range matching real range plus a built-in safety buffer.
 
I just finished half of my first road trip. I did better than my rated range, but somewhat inconsistently. It was a very hot day, averaging nearly 100. As I drove South, from North Carolina to Florida, my consumption stayed around 260-270 until around 5 PM. Then it rose, averaging ~290 after dark. More humid? Maybe, but not much. Cooler? Not really. The A/C ran the entire trip.
 
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I just finished a 2950 mile trip from Houston, TX to Huntington, WV to Mt Airy, NC and back to Houston with some additional side trips. The average consumption for the entire trip was 268 Wh/mi. That's in a 2015 Model S RWD, 19" wheels, speed limit +5 and Autopilot (AP1) 80+% of the time, 70-90 degree weather with AC set to 72, and no wind or rain the whole trip. Typically, the nav would show something like 30 minutes at the next supercharger stop. Once plugged in, it would estimate higher, like 40 minutes to continue the trip. Returning after 40 minutes, there was much more than enough charge to continue, so 30 minutes was a better guess after all (maybe even high). At the end of each leg, the remaining SOC always ended up higher than the initial estimate, sometimes by as much as 10%. I had no range anxiety since I could count on the rated range matching real range plus a built-in safety buffer.
That is excellent! Very low consumption in my experience.