Does anyone ever get rated range?

[X Fan]

Sorry can’t provide S but here is my X experience ( from TeslaFi data ) by month with combo of highway/local driving in every month):
Jun: 351 Wh/Mile 89.2 %
Jul: 354 Wh/Mile 88.79 %
Aug: 374 Wh/Mile 84.58 % (lots of summer driving in 90+ degree & high humidity days)
Sept: 360 Wh/Mile 87.87 %
Oct: 346 Wh/Mile 91.41 % (perfect temps)
Nov: 363 Wh/Mile 88.26 % (a couple of 30 degree drives)
Dec: 387 Wh/Mile 83.08 % (includes drive back to FL on very cold day)

 

[RobW2428]

When I drive 70-200 miles with a destination entered into Nav, I switch the Energy screen to "Trip" and that really taps into my competitive side. I find myself doing whatever I can to tie or beat the estimate for what percent of battery I'll have left when I reach my destination. I'll cut back on heat, use tons of cruise control, drive closer to the speed limit, etc. After 30 miles of that, I usually find that I'm at or below 289 Wh/mile.

Driving around town is completely different though. And more fun, for sure.

 

[croman]

Unlike my LEAF, the S seems to do rather poorly being efficient at local driving. It shines on long highway trips. Its literally the opposite of the LEAF which is amusing to me because its rewiring my expectations and my internal route planning. Also the regen is so much stronger that its much easier to avoid ever hitting the friction brakes, further boosting highway efficiency (especially offramp energy recapture).

 

[Chrisizzle]

No way rated wh/mi is 200. That means 5 miles per kwh. My 60 would do 300 miles per full charge using that math. Clearly not right. Rated use is more like 275wh/mi.

Croman, I'm from a small part of the world called 'not the United States.' In these obscure regions, we use kilometres as a unit of measure. So, a closer read shows my example at 200 Wh/km. Otherwise, you are correct and your rated range in the USA is 300 Wh/mile. :-D

 

[306 Megajoules]

Since I started tracking about 23,000 miles ago, I get 279 Wh/mi in about 75% highway driving between DC and WV. In the summer I use 20 inch wheels with Michelin Pilot Super Sports and the Wh/mi goes up to about 285 otherwise I am on stock 19 inch wheels.

I am not quite a hyper miler but I do pay attention. Admittedly, I can't help but embarrass a high end car now and then.. My last victim was a Maserati GranTurismo.

 

[Chopr147]

Croman, I'm from a small part of the world called 'not the United States.'

I don't know where that is

Of course weather is always a factor. I really only pay attention to rated range on the longer trips which is what I did with my ICE. When I set the NAV. for my many trips upstate and it estimates 16 % upon arrival, it usually is very accurate in the spring and summer. Winter? At least 20 % more use and have even had to supercharge for the 150 mile trip when I had 218 miles to start. (snowing,rain and windy)
But mostly I have been pleasantly surprised by the accuracy.

 

[croman]

Croman, I'm from a small part of the world called 'not the United States.' In these obscure regions, we use kilometres as a unit of measure. So, a closer read shows my example at 200 Wh/km. Otherwise, you are correct and your rated range in the USA is 300 Wh/mile. :-D

LOL, sorry. Too little coffee thus far. That makes perfect sense.

 

[Trailblazer]

After exactly 1 year of driving (18,500 miles in a model S85D with 19 inch wheels), my average was 296 wh/mile. That's pretty close to rated range - and I didn't really pay attention to optimizing it - I just drove as I normally would (with the addition of a few launches here and there). Living in the South helps quite a bit (Charlotte, NC area).

 

[jsmay311]

As a Model 3 reservation holder who current drives a 2013 Volt, this is a question that has me particularly curious/concerned.

Before I replaced the OEM tires on my Volt, it was not too difficult to exceed the EPA-rated range by upwards of 40% in the summer with reasonably efficient driving. With more "average" driving it was probably more like 20% over the rated range. Only during winter would I get less than the rated range, and if I was miserly with the cabin heat, even then I could often get at least the rated range. Over the full year, I probably averaged 20% better than the EPA rating.

Based on reading Volt forums, it seems like I drive a bit more conservatively than most other owners. But my experience isn't really out the ordinary, with many/most Volt owners easily exceeding the EPA-rated range in warm weather.

So, reading Tesla forums, I struggle to understand why Model S owners would have such a dramatically different experience, with (seemingly) the large majority falling well short of EPA-rated ranges, and only a small minority that meets or exceeds them, and even then only slightly. (BTW... if this impression is inaccurate, please let me know.)


I can think of lots of little things that might add up: A large percentage of Tesla owners with larger-than-stock wheels, more-aggressive average drivers, more highway driving on average with higher average speeds. But none of these things seem like they could possibly explain the magnitude or consistency of the disparity across all types of owners/drivers.

And as for the more conventional factors that affect efficiency and are different between the 2 vehicles: weight, aerodynamics, rolling resistance, drivetrain efficiency -- those should all be accounted for in the EPA ratings themselves.

So... what's the dealio?

 

[croman]

My leaf also exceeded averages (lifetime over 3 years, 4.5mi/kwh = range of 108 miles). Heavily dependent on driving style. I love going quickly off stops but I also am miserly with heat in winter and I coast once I'm at or slightly above speed limit. I used to limit my highway driving. I think with my S I will use the highways even more because local driving seems to sap a lot (starting and stopping).

Who knows how the 2170 cells will react. No point in comparing 3 to other cars as nothing exists that compares (even the S which is a heavier bigger car).

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

As a Model 3 reservation holder who current drives a 2013 Volt, this is a question that has me particularly curious/concerned.

Before I replaced the OEM tires on my Volt, it was not too difficult to exceed the EPA-rated range by upwards of 40% in the summer with reasonably efficient driving. With more "average" driving it was probably more like 20% over the rated range. Only during winter would I get less than the rated range, and if I was miserly with the cabin heat, even then I could often get at least the rated range. Over the full year, I probably averaged 20% better than the EPA rating.

Based on reading Volt forums, it seems like I drive a bit more conservatively than most other owners. But my experience isn't really out the ordinary, with many/most Volt owners easily exceeding the EPA-rated range in warm weather.

So, reading Tesla forums, I struggle to understand why Model S owners would have such a dramatically different experience, with (seemingly) the large majority falling well short of EPA-rated ranges, and only a small minority that meets or exceeds them, and even then only slightly. (BTW... if this impression is inaccurate, please let me know.)


I can think of lots of little things that might add up: A large percentage of Tesla owners with larger-than-stock wheels, more-aggressive average drivers, more highway driving on average with higher average speeds. But none of these things seem like they could possibly explain the magnitude or consistency of the disparity across all types of owners/drivers.

And as for the more conventional factors that affect efficiency and are different between the 2 vehicles: weight, aerodynamics, rolling resistance, drivetrain efficiency -- those should all be accounted for in the EPA ratings themselves.

So... what's the dealio?

Do you compare the EPA EV efficiency of your volt? Or the EPA efficiency of the gas hybrids? If I remember correctly you should be around 98 mpge. You should use that number and ensure you are only using battery and not allowing the gas engine to kick in. So are you averaging more than 98mpge?

In the tesla all you have is the battery and like I said above it has to do largely on the fact that pure EV are inherently efficient and any changes to the driving style will definitely change the numbers easily. Usually for the worst because EPA is a bit optimistic on how they simulate real driving condition for the average Americans.

 

[sdorn]

My leaf also exceeded averages (lifetime over 3 years, 4.5mi/kwh = range of 108 miles). Heavily dependent on driving style. I love going quickly off stops but I also am miserly with heat in winter and I coast once I'm at or slightly above speed limit. I used to limit my highway driving. I think with my S I will use the highways even more because local driving seems to sap a lot (starting and stopping).

Who knows how the 2170 cells will react. No point in comparing 3 to other cars as nothing exists that compares (even the S which is a heavier bigger car).

I never get the rated range in my 2015 Leaf either, but my driving is always either short <10 mile trips or a 22 mile commute to and from work in stop and go traffic.

 

[democappy]

I am at 323 Wh/Mile in my S60 for the past 4 and a half months. It was at 315 before the colder months started. The efficiency took a big hit as soon as the weather got down into the 50s. My Tesla has never left the Charlotte metro area, so I assume all of the short trips and traffic keep my energy usage high compared to folks who do long trips regularly. The longest drive I have ever done is maybe 20-30 miles.

 

[jsmay311]

Do you compare the EPA EV efficiency of your volt? Or the EPA efficiency of the gas hybrids? If I remember correctly you should be around 98 mpge. You should use that number and ensure you are only using battery and not allowing the gas engine to kick in. So are you averaging more than 98mpge?

I'm talking about EV range/efficiency only. No gas. And, yes, I have averaged well over the EPA-rated efficiency and range.

In the tesla all you have is the battery and like I said above it has to do largely on the fact that pure EV are inherently efficient and any changes to the driving style will definitely change the numbers easily. Usually for the worst because EPA is a bit optimistic on how they simulate real driving condition for the average Americans.

That's what I'm trying to get at. Because, at least anecdotally based on what I'm reading on the respective forums, it's quite difficult to consistently beat the EPA ratings in a Model S, but quite easy to do so in a Volt.

So as (1) a current Volt owner, (2) a prospective Tesla owner, (3) an EV enthusiast, and (4) a mechanical engineer, I'm desperate to understand this better.

 

[SageBrush]

or if it is like that "EPA rated mileage" unicorn number that no one EVER attains?

Exactly the same. I ALWAYS exceed EPA; in fact I end up around NEDC for my year-round average.

Yeah, I know. That is supposed to be impossible.

 

[Saghost]

As a Model 3 reservation holder who current drives a 2013 Volt, this is a question that has me particularly curious/concerned.

Before I replaced the OEM tires on my Volt, it was not too difficult to exceed the EPA-rated range by upwards of 40% in the summer with reasonably efficient driving. With more "average" driving it was probably more like 20% over the rated range. Only during winter would I get less than the rated range, and if I was miserly with the cabin heat, even then I could often get at least the rated range. Over the full year, I probably averaged 20% better than the EPA rating.

Based on reading Volt forums, it seems like I drive a bit more conservatively than most other owners. But my experience isn't really out the ordinary, with many/most Volt owners easily exceeding the EPA-rated range in warm weather.

So, reading Tesla forums, I struggle to understand why Model S owners would have such a dramatically different experience, with (seemingly) the large majority falling well short of EPA-rated ranges, and only a small minority that meets or exceeds them, and even then only slightly. (BTW... if this impression is inaccurate, please let me know.)


I can think of lots of little things that might add up: A large percentage of Tesla owners with larger-than-stock wheels, more-aggressive average drivers, more highway driving on average with higher average speeds. But none of these things seem like they could possibly explain the magnitude or consistency of the disparity across all types of owners/drivers.

And as for the more conventional factors that affect efficiency and are different between the 2 vehicles: weight, aerodynamics, rolling resistance, drivetrain efficiency -- those should all be accounted for in the EPA ratings themselves.

So... what's the dealio?

A lot of Tesla drivers like to drive fast. I think a goodly number of them regularly go faster than the Volt's limiter, actually.

But I'm pretty sure the only reason you find a lot of folks here who never see rated range is that they are taking full advantage of the instant torque, massive power, and solid handling of Tesla cars.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

I'm talking about EV range/efficiency only. No gas. And, yes, I have averaged well over the EPA-rated efficiency and range.



That's what I'm trying to get at. Because, at least anecdotally based on what I'm reading on the respective forums, it's quite difficult to consistently beat the EPA ratings in a Model S, but quite easy to do so in a Volt.

So as (1) a current Volt owner, (2) a prospective Tesla owner, (3) an EV enthusiast, and (4) a mechanical engineer, I'm desperate to understand this better.

Well here is a thought. It might not be the only answer but I am sure this definitely might be one reason why the volt is able to hit EPA easily compared to the tesla.

The volt is shallowly charged and discharged. I don't have the exact numbers but for example it is like 40% to 80% SOC. Hence you are always using a fraction of the whole batteries. Not only that but you are consistently given the same usable KWh from the battery in the volt regardless of battery degradation. Calibration is not really needed because if you are slightly off you either use 45%-85% or 35%-75%. However in the tesla you are given the whole battery to use save for a tid bit on the upper end and the lower end. Because you can use the whole battery capacity you are definitely at the mercy of degradation as well as imbalance in the cells. Any little changes in those will result in reduce capacity. Cold weather? Reduce capacity. Drive faster and hence less efficient, reduce capacity. Old batteries? Reduce capacity. However in your volt the software just say alright it is cold let's give this person the same capacity by allowing more amp-hour to compensate for the lower voltage in cold weather.

This is one of the reason why I believe the bolt would be a great car because I think GM hides the capacity well. Rumors is they use a much bigger battery than what they let you use. Similar to the volt. Hence down the road you might see the effects of battery degradation until way into ownership.

Again this is my thoughts on why tesla is doing so poorly in the real world in terms of getting EPA ranges.

 

[Todd Burch]

I usually get anywhere from 260-280 Wh/mi on my hour commute, consisting of about 10 minutes of interstate driving and the rest urban/rural. That's at 0 to 5 mph above the speed limit and maybe one or two hard accelerations.

This really depends on the speed, terrain, number of stoplights, etc.

I have made the drive in as little as 245 Wh/mi taking quieter roads around 45 mph speed limits, and exceeded 340 Wh/mi on windy days with more spirited driving and cold temperatures.

It all just boils down to driving style, speed, and environment.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Rated range during the winter???

That's just crazy talk.

 

[David29]

Well here is a thought. It might not be the only answer but I am sure this definitely might be one reason why the volt is able to hit EPA easily compared to the tesla.

The volt is shallowly charged and discharged. I don't have the exact numbers but for example it is like 40% to 80% SOC. Hence you are always using a fraction of the whole batteries. Not only that but you are consistently given the same usable KWh from the battery in the volt regardless of battery degradation. Calibration is not really needed because if you are slightly off you either use 45%-85% or 35%-75%. However in the tesla you are given the whole battery to use save for a tid bit on the upper end and the lower end. Because you can use the whole battery capacity you are definitely at the mercy of degradation as well as imbalance in the cells. Any little changes in those will result in reduce capacity. Cold weather? Reduce capacity. Drive faster and hence less efficient, reduce capacity. Old batteries? Reduce capacity. However in your volt the software just say alright it is cold let's give this person the same capacity by allowing more amp-hour to compensate for the lower voltage in cold weather.

This is one of the reason why I believe the bolt would be a great car because I think GM hides the capacity well. Rumors is they use a much bigger battery than what they let you use. Similar to the volt. Hence down the road you might see the effects of battery degradation until way into ownership.

Again this is my thoughts on why tesla is doing so poorly in the real world in terms of getting EPA ranges.

Another factor, and potentially a big one, is horsepower. All the Tesla Model S and Model X cars have considerable HP ratings and can deliver very high acceleration. My 70D is not a performance model but has acceleration capability higher than the Mercedes E-class V6 I had previously (by far). Way back in the day, I worked in a field that involved knowing a bit about the effect of various factors on fuel consumption, and as I recall, the largest single influence on fuel economy was rated horsepower of the vehicle. I do not know the specs on a Chevy Volt, but I have never heard it described as a performance car. So I suspect one reason Teslas often do not achieve rated range is that their owners (including me) utilize all that lovely horsepower in ways not reflected in the EPA test cycle. When used, high acceleration involves high currents and thus high heat losses in the motor(s). The analogy to ICE engines is not very strong in the mechanical details, but the effect on efficiency is similar. I suspect my wH/mile average would be higher than it is if I drove my car more like I drove my Benz, even if I used the same highway speeds....