Don't buy FSD for $2k more. [from 2019 - FSD upgrade not available for 2k at this time]

[michidragon]

In the end, neither allowed for the then-promised FSD features, but HW3 will, so everyone who bought FSD gets HW3.

This is one of the rare places Tesla has been very consistent in their messaging going back years now.

As recently as Tuesday this was the case. But are you not a bit concerned that tonight Elon said that FSD would be feature complete by the end of 2019, completely in software?

I got my ass handed to me over on Reddit by mentioning @ZoomZoom 's comments about how he called CS and they told him that the recent FSD upgrades did NOT include the price of hardware and that they would implement as much as they can in HW 2.0 / 2.5.

Now this... It's not reassuring. Would have been nice to hear something about HW3 but I guess now it's time to wait and see what happens -- for the rest of 2019.

 

[rking0122]

As recently as Tuesday this was the case. But are you not a bit concerned that tonight Elon said that FSD would be feature complete by the end of 2019, completely in software?

I got my ass handed to me over on Reddit by mentioning @ZoomZoom 's comments about how he called CS and they told him that the recent FSD upgrades did NOT include the price of hardware and that they would implement as much as they can in HW 2.0 / 2.5.

Now this... It's not reassuring. Would have been nice to hear something about HW3 but I guess now it's time to wait and see what happens -- for the rest of 2019.

Does this not just mean he's saying the software features will be produced/written/perhaps circulated by the end of 2019? Doesn't seem to imply anything about hardware. But all speculation at this point, lol

 

[woodisgood]

Feature complete by the end of 2019? I thought the only FSD features coming in 2019 were stop sign and traffic light recognition. Is that all they think separates AP features from full self-driving? What about the ability to pull over to pick up and drop off? That's a pretty complicated action in any busy city or even a suburban downtown, and seems like a pretty necessary part of a car driving itself (and especially to the point of being able to ride-share). What about some kind of advanced pedestrian detection - they can be pretty darn squirrelly? Bicyclists?

They've REALLY moved the goalposts on FSD to be basically AP on city streets. Must have realized they need next generation sensor suites to do level 4/5, and this will be as good as it gets for 3/Y.

 

[panpanbebe]

I totally agreed with OP, I don't want to spend another $2,000 since I have EAP and that FSD is not even existing and people didn't purchase anything can get AP+FSD for $5,000? something is not right.

 

[Knightshade]

Does this not just mean he's saying the software features will be produced/written/perhaps circulated by the end of 2019? Doesn't seem to imply anything about hardware. But all speculation at this point, lol

Yup.

Moreover, he was discussing it in the context of the Model Y launch, which obviously will have HW3 from the factory anyway.

As someone else pointed out, at this point the only "benefit" to HW3 is "allowed FSDs future features to exist/work" so there's no reason to be making a big point of the upgrade. If you buy FSD you get it because you HAVE TO, if you don't buy FSD you don't because it makes no difference to you. It's not a "selling feature" unto itself, it's hardware to enable something else you have purchased.... so to the average buyer bringing up HW versions at all is just adding confusion. (See how Tesla has moved away from model designations with HW specs built into them as well).


Every single time someone who knows HW stuff asks Elon, he consistently states HW upgrades needed for FSD, like HW3, are included in the price of FSD. Every single time. Going back years now. But they don't make a huge marketing splash page about it, because to most people they don't even know WTF HW3 is and don't care- they just want FSD features.

 

[brobinson]

I have no motivation to read this entire thread, but I just wanted to say that the title update is hilarious.

 

[derotam]

BRB, gotta get some more popcorn!

 

[michidragon]

So at this point I've been on the phone with the local service center, customer service, "Vehicle Services" and the "Technical Service Team".

I bought the $2k FSD upgrade last week; so far everyone I've talked to seems to think that I'm wrong and talking about EAP. So far they're refusing to do anything to push the "APF2" (FSD) option on to the car; mine is still "APF1" (EAP). Many of the people I talked to think that I bought the basic AP update; others think EAP is FSD.

Several people I talked to said that that FSD is software only, some say that it "might be hardware but you'll get limited options with HW 2.5 and there will be no upgrade". Nobody has been an emphatic yes about the HW3.

So, HW3 aside, I can't even get the option code on the damn car after paying for it.

This is a mess.

 

[dave999z]

Maybe those people are about to lose their jobs so don’t give a ****?

 

[brobinson]

So at this point I've been on the phone with the local service center, customer service, "Vehicle Services" and the "Technical Service Team".

I bought the $2k FSD upgrade last week; so far everyone I've talked to seems to think that I'm wrong and talking about EAP. So far they're refusing to do anything to push the "APF2" (FSD) option on to the car; mine is still "APF1" (EAP). Many of the people I talked to think that I bought the basic AP update; others think EAP is FSD.

Several people I talked to said that that FSD is software only, some say that it "might be hardware but you'll get limited options with HW 2.5 and there will be no upgrade". Nobody has been an emphatic yes about the HW3.

So, HW3 aside, I can't even get the option code on the damn car after paying for it.

This is a mess.

What features exist in FSD that are available right now that you don't have in EAP?

 

[Glamisduner]

I have no motivation to read this entire thread, but I just wanted to say that the title update is hilarious.

In summary, there was no point to buy, and I'm not sure there is even now. But since we now know prices are going up and i do believe we will get hardware 3 I purchased due to FOMO.

 

[CCIE]

So at this point I've been on the phone with the local service center, customer service, "Vehicle Services" and the "Technical Service Team".

I bought the $2k FSD upgrade last week; so far everyone I've talked to seems to think that I'm wrong and talking about EAP. So far they're refusing to do anything to push the "APF2" (FSD) option on to the car; mine is still "APF1" (EAP). Many of the people I talked to think that I bought the basic AP update; others think EAP is FSD.

Several people I talked to said that that FSD is software only, some say that it "might be hardware but you'll get limited options with HW 2.5 and there will be no upgrade". Nobody has been an emphatic yes about the HW3.

So, HW3 aside, I can't even get the option code on the damn car after paying for it.

This is a mess.

If you bought FSD for $2k, that means you have EAP already. So, you paid $2k for a promise, nothing more. There are no features for them to push/activate on your car. Having EAP already gave you everything real that they have to offer.

 

[technoz]

I’m at the service center FSD shows 3k in my account. No one can figure out how to get it to the 2k price been here 2 hours. What a mess!

 

[OCR1]

So at this point I've been on the phone with the local service center, customer service, "Vehicle Services" and the "Technical Service Team".

I bought the $2k FSD upgrade last week; so far everyone I've talked to seems to think that I'm wrong and talking about EAP. So far they're refusing to do anything to push the "APF2" (FSD) option on to the car; mine is still "APF1" (EAP). Many of the people I talked to think that I bought the basic AP update; others think EAP is FSD.

Several people I talked to said that that FSD is software only, some say that it "might be hardware but you'll get limited options with HW 2.5 and there will be no upgrade". Nobody has been an emphatic yes about the HW3.

So, HW3 aside, I can't even get the option code on the damn car after paying for it.

This is a mess.

They probably forgot to tell those employees that they have to keep up on their twitter feeds to know what’s going on in the company. That’s the only apparent source for information on any of this stuff.

 

[michidragon]

If you bought FSD for $2k, that means you have EAP already. So, you paid $2k for a promise, nothing more. There are no features for them to push/activate on your car. Having EAP already gave you everything real that they have to offer.

Incorrect. With FSD, at least option code APF2 is supposed to be set; so that if any new FSD-only features DO come, I would get them. With APF1, that won't happen. It's a matter of provisioning, even if there are no active features.

People who order the FSD upgrade at least get their car flagged as having FSD; for eligibility for "Whatever that means in the future". This is done by changing Option Code APF1 (EAP) to APF2 (FSD).

I fully understand that there are no new features. But yes, provisioning DOES happen to allow the car to get any FSD features that do happen in the future, and that IS by changing this option code - and in my case, that is not happening. (The service center has confirmed that FSD is not showing as being provisioned as an option on the car.)

 

[michidragon]

What features exist in FSD that are available right now that you don't have in EAP?

None. But the option code should at least be flipped, so that if any do happen, my car would get them. There's a difference between "there are FSD capabilities yet" and "your car is registered to receive any, down the line, if they do happen."

Everyone who has bought the FSD upgrade from EAP has seen a pop-up on their screen that states that the FSD upgrade is complete. This completion is the changing of that flag.

I don't understand what's so complicated about this, with people telling me I should STFU because there "aren't any features yet". My point is that my car is not being provisioned to get any that may come. And yes, that does matter.

 

[Twiglett]

Incorrect. With FSD, at least option code APF2 is supposed to be set; so that if any new FSD-only features DO come, I would get them. With APF1, that won't happen. It's a matter of provisioning, even if there are no active features.

People who order the FSD upgrade at least get their car flagged as having FSD; for eligibility for "Whatever that means in the future". This is done by changing Option Code APF1 (EAP) to APF2 (FSD).

I fully understand that there are no new features. But yes, provisioning DOES happen to allow the car to get any FSD features that do happen in the future, and that IS by changing this option code - and in my case, that is not happening. (The service center has confirmed that FSD is not showing as being provisioned as an option on the car.)

Why worry?
If there are no new features to deliver yet then it does nothing.
It would be worth worrying if you don’t get a new feature when it arrives.
Until that time it’s a totally pointless thing to worry about.

 

[TANGO SUKKA]

None. But the option code should at least be flipped, so that if any do happen, my car would get them. There's a difference between "there are FSD capabilities yet" and "your car is registered to receive any, down the line, if they do happen."

Everyone who has bought the FSD upgrade from EAP has seen a pop-up on their screen that states that the FSD upgrade is complete. This completion is the changing of that flag.

I don't understand what's so complicated about this, with people telling me I should STFU because there "aren't any features yet". My point is that my car is not being provisioned to get any that may come. And yes, that does matter.

it doesn't matter if you have no idea what you're getting or when, or even if you're getting anything.

 

[OCR1]

So at this point I've been on the phone with the local service center, customer service, "Vehicle Services" and the "Technical Service Team".

I bought the $2k FSD upgrade last week; so far everyone I've talked to seems to think that I'm wrong and talking about EAP. So far they're refusing to do anything to push the "APF2" (FSD) option on to the car; mine is still "APF1" (EAP). Many of the people I talked to think that I bought the basic AP update; others think EAP is FSD.

Several people I talked to said that that FSD is software only, some say that it "might be hardware but you'll get limited options with HW 2.5 and there will be no upgrade". Nobody has been an emphatic yes about the HW3.

So, HW3 aside, I can't even get the option code on the damn car after paying for it.

This is a mess.

We upgraded to FSD for $2K. We previously had EAP. On the website under my account info I now see that FSD is listed as an option where previously it said EAP. You are correct in questioning why it does not show on the website as an option and you do need to get it fixed. While there may be no new features immediately available why wait until there are to fix this.

 

[michidragon]

it doesn't matter if you have no idea what you're getting or when, or even if you're getting anything.

So basically your response is "Be cynical, like I am."

So in other words I should sit down and shut up because you feel like no features will ever come, so why complain?

Something went wrong with the upgrade - on their end. All this "But there aren't any features yet!" is irrelevant. My point is, in the state my account and car is in now, *if any do come, I will not get them*, because the option was not provisioned.

If they push, say, traffic light recognition, in two months, on AP 2.5, I will not get it. Because it has not been attached to my car or account as an option that I have purchased.

But I suppose it's OK because some people here just say "there are no features yet".

Why worry?
If there are no new features to deliver yet then it does nothing.
It would be worth worrying if you don’t get a new feature when it arrives.
Until that time it’s a totally pointless thing to worry about.

Because down the line, when a whole lot of other things change yet again, it's gonna be even harder to explain to the black hole that is CS that something is wrong. Right now at least I have a recent transaction to point to. Down the line when it all gets shuffled again - who knows. It's better to get it squared away now when it's at least explainable.

We upgraded to FSD for $2K. We previously had EAP. On the website under my account info I now see that FSD is listed as an option where previously it said EAP. You are correct in questioning why it does not show on the website as an option and you do need to get it fixed. While there may be no new features immediately available why wait until there are to fix this.

THANK YOU. This. Let's say they DO upgrade people to HW3, and they go through batches of people who have "APF2" (FSD option code) on their car to set appointments. If that were the case, mine would never come.

Having it unprovisioned is not an OK thing. Yes, $2000 for a promise. But at this point I'm not even getting the promise, because the purchase of the promise, or whatever you want to call it, isn't even registering in their freaking system.

Anyways, I'll drop it, because obviously people disagree here.​