Double vision (ghosting) at night through windshield?

[FA1820]

@EV-lutioin, I am so sorry to hear about the new windshield.

Basically, from what we have heard on this forum, almost 100% of the windshields have the ghosting effects, and a smaller number have it at such higher levels that are just unsafe (personal experience). Until the issue is resolved at the manufacturing level, if you requests a new windshield there are only 2 outcomes: if you are lucky, your new windshield will have the same ghosting effect as your original windshield. However, if unlucky, you may get a defective one. The decision is a simple one for the time being, is it annoying or does it interfere with you ability to drive safely?
In my case there was no hesitation, it was unsafe. Not only there was no risk, on the contrary, odds were in my favor. My new windshield has the same level of ghosting that others have reported as annoying. Took many calls and face to face discussion with the local SC supervisor and manager. I also was very satisfied with the level of service they personally provided.

As for actual ghost free windshields, I expect the redesign- market lifecycle to take up to 6 months (or longer), so I wouldn't expect any improved windshields to be available before Oct (a few of us reported defective ones in early April). Obviously, the assumptions are, Tesla 1)- would work out where the prosses needed fixing and 2)- how to detect a defective windshield at the manufacturing site or at the factory, or during their final QC process on site.

 

[hill]

I'd hate for anyone to get the wrong idea . . . but I wonder how long it'd take an insurance company to replace the windshield "IF" ... say for example, some big ol' truck (& you never got the plate #) happened to kick up a big ol' rock .... right in the driver's line of sight on that ghosting windshield. Big ol' crack . . . . Just wondering . . .

.

 

[FA1820]

All pictures on pages 1 and 2 of this forum. All from Model Xs.

ghosts must be like vampires and not show up on film. only picture/video of this is from a toyota. can someone post an example from a model x.

 

[ohmman]

Anyone with ghosting should just wait patiently until this is all sorted out (probably at least 4-6 months from now).

The good news for those of us in California is that this is how long it will take to get an appointment anyway.

 

[EV-lutioin]

This is exactly why Tesla does not want to replace these windshields until they (and their manufacturer) finish their root-cause analysis on this issue. Anyone with ghosting should just wait patiently until this is all sorted out (probably at least 4-6 months from now).

Each windshield is manufactured in a custom built line, and issues can crop up anywhere during the manufacturing process, storage and/or delivery. Furthermore, each windshield style is unique, so while a 2016 VW Jetta windshield has no issues during storage and delivery, a 2016 Model-X windshield will warp in the exact same delivery channel. Check out this video on how windshields are made.

If every windshield had this exact problem, it would be easy to figure this out. But because the issue varies significantly from windshield to windshield, it's a lot more difficult to figure out when and where the problem develops. It could be something in manufacturing, something in storage, something during courier delivery, something during storage in Fremont, or a combination of a few of the above (e.g. a manufacturing defect, that doesn't show up unless the windshield is stored in a certain way).

Give Tesla some time. Have faith in Tesla. If I were having this issue, I wouldn't want a solution until it's been vetted by Tesla and verified by a few customers. Total waste of my time to be the one experimenting on solutions.

I certainly hope you are right and you have some inside information that indicates they are working on the problem and don't want to replace windshields until they figure it out. But if that were the case, then that begs the question... why didn't they ask me to wait? What didn't they tell me to be patient because they are working on the problem? I certainly would have given them all the time they wanted if they had asked for some more time to solve the problem.

Given that they did not ask for more time, either they were giving me exceptional service and replacing the windshield because I had a problem and they didn't want an unhappy customer while they worked on the problem or they are not really working on the problem and don't anticipate a solution so they are just replacing windshields and hoping it works. My question is how do we know Tesla is actively looking for a solution and not just randomly replacing windshields and hoping the problem goes away?

 

[EV-lutioin]

The good news for those of us in California is that this is how long it will take to get an appointment anyway.

Only took me a week.

 

[hill]

Only took me a week.

for exactly what kind of work though . . . . that might make a difference
.

 

[vandacca]

I certainly hope you are right and you have some inside information that indicates they are working on the problem and don't want to replace windshields until they figure it out. But if that were the case, then that begs the question... why didn't they ask me to wait? What didn't they tell me to be patient because they are working on the problem? I certainly would have given them all the time they wanted if they had asked for some more time to solve the problem.

Given that they did not ask for more time, either they were giving me exceptional service and replacing the windshield because I had a problem and they didn't want an unhappy customer while they worked on the problem or they are not really working on the problem and don't anticipate a solution so they are just replacing windshields and hoping it works. My question is how do we know Tesla is actively looking for a solution and not just randomly replacing windshields and hoping the problem goes away?

Firstly, I have no inside information, just the information that is readily available here on TMC.

So far, Tesla has appeared to simply replace some windshields and hope for the best. I don't agree with this approach (unless a customer has really bad ghosting) because some have reported worse ghosting with the replacement. I feel that blindly replacing windshields is a big waste of time and resources.

Lastly, people on this forum have cut 'n pasted Emails from Tesla indicating that Tesla is seriously looking into this issue.

I just purchased a laser pointer, and I plan to shine it into my windshield from a distance (e.g. 400') and see if I can see a splitting of the laser dot. I don't know why Tesla doesn't set up such a rig to characterize the amount of ghosting for each windshield.

 

[ohmman]

I just purchased a laser pointer, and I plan to shine it into my windshield from a distance (e.g. 400') and see if I can see a splitting of the laser dot. I don't know why Tesla doesn't set up such a rig to characterize the amount of ghosting for each windshield.

I've been wanting to do this but haven't gotten around to it. If you get a solid methodology, let us know and I'll try to reproduce it. It would be interesting to compare windshields using the same method.

 

[Roentgen]

I'll try to remember to do this tonight... although I don't have a pre-tint control, I think my ghosting was similar to that posted initially on this thread, and maybe can serve as an indicator for tint effectiveness in controlling the ghosting.

 

[mfel]

I did a very quick try on this a couple of weeks ago with my new X windshield. It does have a very clear triple image for headlights, etc.

However, from just a few feet away shining a cheap laser pointer through windshield onto a card I could not detect any multiple images. I was holding both laser and card, and I'm not sure about how distance would influence the affect. The hard part was simply getting the laser still since I didn't mount it on anything.

Since some people observe that polarized sunglasses have an effect on the behavior make sure to try a couple of different rotations of the laser. Most lasers are at least somewhat polarized.

 

[vandacca]

I did a very quick try on this a couple of weeks ago with my new X windshield. It does have a very clear triple image for headlights, etc.

However, from just a few feet away shining a cheap laser pointer through windshield onto a card I could not detect any multiple images. I was holding both laser and card, and I'm not sure about how distance would influence the affect. The hard part was simply getting the laser still since I didn't mount it on anything.

Since some people observe that polarized sunglasses have an effect on the behavior make sure to try a couple of different rotations of the laser. Most lasers are at least somewhat polarized.

From the images I've seen, the ghosting is only happening for bright lights in the distance. The closer the light is, the less ghosting. I'm guessing that the light source needs to be 400' away or further for one to see the effect.

 

[Scmbug]

I did a very quick try on this a couple of weeks ago with my new X windshield. It does have a very clear triple image for headlights, etc.

However, from just a few feet away shining a cheap laser pointer through windshield onto a card I could not detect any multiple images. I was holding both laser and card, and I'm not sure about how distance would influence the affect. The hard part was simply getting the laser still since I didn't mount it on anything.

Since some people observe that polarized sunglasses have an effect on the behavior make sure to try a couple of different rotations of the laser. Most lasers are at least somewhat polarized.

The ghosting on my windshield seems pretty bad and I can see three distinct sets of lights. I have noticed that the further away the lights are, the worse the effect. The tail lights on the cars right in front of me have minimal ghosting, whereas the ones further away show the effect quite clearly. I have also noticed that wearing polarized sunglasses almost completely cancels the effect; however my sunglasses are too dark to wear at night. :/

I would be interested to hear if anyone is able to reproduce it with a laser pointer.

 

[aesculus]

I've been wanting to do this but haven't gotten around to it. If you get a solid methodology, let us know and I'll try to reproduce it. It would be interesting to compare windshields using the same method.

Maybe we should set up a test area at Bonnie's this weekend.

 

[EV-lutioin]

Firstly, I have no inside information, just the information that is readily available here on TMC.

So far, Tesla has appeared to simply replace some windshields and hope for the best. I don't agree with this approach (unless a customer has really bad ghosting) because some have reported worse ghosting with the replacement. I feel that blindly replacing windshields is a big waste of time and resources.

Lastly, people on this forum have cut 'n pasted Emails from Tesla indicating that Tesla is seriously looking into this issue.

I just purchased a laser pointer, and I plan to shine it into my windshield from a distance (e.g. 400') and see if I can see a splitting of the laser dot. I don't know why Tesla doesn't set up such a rig to characterize the amount of ghosting for each windshield.

What bothers me most is that they did not test the replacement windshield before or after installing it to see if it solved the problem. Why would they make a repair without checking to see if it solved the problem? As a comparison, imagine bringing in your car to have the AC repaired because it is not cold enough and when you pick it up the AC doesn't work at all. It just doesn't make sense.

On a side note, I contacted two service centers (Rocklin and Palo Alto) and both said they had never heard of ghosting on ANY Model X's. They said my MX was the first they had heard of it. So I directed them to this thread (and the April Fortune article) and they were completely shocked to see the extent of the problem. I am wondering... 1. Why aren't MX owners contacting these SC with the ghosting issue? 2. Why are the service centers unaware of the problem? If it was a known problem that were working on wouldn't they send out a notice to all their service centers to let them know? Considering the corporate offices for Tesla are in Palo Alto, one would expect the service center in Palo Alto to be the most informed. 3. Why don't service center representatives read the forums from time to time to keep up on topics important to owners?

 

[EV-lutioin]

The ghosting on my windshield seems pretty bad and I can see three distinct sets of lights. I have noticed that the further away the lights are, the worse the effect. The tail lights on the cars right in front of me have minimal ghosting, whereas the ones further away show the effect quite clearly. I have also noticed that wearing polarized sunglasses almost completely cancels the effect; however my sunglasses are too dark to wear at night. :/

I would be interested to hear if anyone is able to reproduce it with a laser pointer.

Have you noticed how the double/triple images of lights from other cars tend to bounce around when you look at them? This is the most disorienting part for me. Human eyes are naturally drawn to movement (it's a survival thing) and the movement of the double/triple images catches my attention to the point where it is very distracting and exhausting. The worst situation is a busy two lane highway where multiple headlights are shining directly at you. The steady march of bouncing double/triple images is a crazy sight to see. I have a strong stomach, but I can imagine how this effect would cause motion sickness/vertigo for some drivers.

 

[EV-lutioin]

From the images I've seen, the ghosting is only happening for bright lights in the distance. The closer the light is, the less ghosting. I'm guessing that the light source needs to be 400' away or further for one to see the effect.

The double images are further from the source (and more distracting) at a distance, but I can still see double images as close as 10 feet away.

 

[vandacca]

3. Why don't service center representatives read the forums from time to time to keep up on topics important to owners?

Because not everyone is as OCD as we are, and it would be a full-time job to keep on top of these forums. Besides, which forums should they monitor? TM, TMC, speakev.com, etc. or all of them?

 

[electricity]

Because not everyone is as OCD as we are, and it would be a full-time job to keep on top of these forums. Besides, which forums should they monitor? TM, TMC, speakev.com, etc. or all of them?

The windshield issue is the #1 Model X issue right now. There is nothing more important than your vision when you drive. That is why we are concerned on the answers we are getting when we ask about this.

 

[EV-lutioin]

Would this help while we wait for a solution?

https://www.amazon.com/Duco-Night-vision-Anti-glare-Polarized-6806/dp/B00D770R6A