Drive unit replacement worth it?

[ScottinAZ]

As is your right.

Tesla’s original 8 year unlimited mile warranty was quite generous. I don’t find it particularly reasonable for you to expect compensation or some other discount in year 10 because Tesla is “high end”.

My point was that I had a 2 year old replacement unit that failed, which was well below my expectation for a part that originally came with a 8 year warranty. I feel I got a substandard repair and I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation. The comment from the manager that their only goal is to make the vehicle drivable one day past the warranty seems to confirm that.
As for a high end auto, if I am going to get treated the same when I purchase a $100,000 vehicle as when i purchase a $30,000 vehicle then I am going to expect to pay closer to $30,000 for the vehicle. Some portion of the price of a luxury auto is the service. I don't expect to be treated the same at the Lexus dealer as I do at the Toyota dealer and I am sure the Lexus and Toyota dealers would agree.

 

[ucmndd]

My point was that I had a 2 year old replacement unit that failed, which was well below my expectation for a part that originally came with a 8 year warranty.

I understand your point. I just don’t agree with it. The fact that you had a drive unit replaced under warranty two years ago is immaterial to the discussion. Your expectation doesn’t really have a bearing on what is owed to you under the terms of the warranty that were very clear for the entire time you owned the car.

Service quality is not the same thing as feeling you’re owed compensation for something you aren’t, and the franchise dealership model definitely has different priorities and economic considerations than Tesla’s business model. If you like one better than the other I’d definitely factor that into your decision moving forward.

Lexus is happy to sell you a $40k Toyota for $70k and some ball cupping. Tesla not so much.

 

[vanwho]

For anyone else being quoted a DU replacement that isn't just a coolant heater. I would take the DU to a third party shop to have it rebuilt instead of replacing it, they can replace both the bearing and add a triple-seal system with a drain. The Q-revision drive units still have the design flaws that can cause both water ingress and leaks causing isolation error. My last one lasted 49k miles before it leaked.

So does the part still have the original seal issue?
ASY,P-TRAIN,SPORT, LARGE DU 1002633-01-T

Or is it fixed in this revision? These aren't ones with ceramic bearings, I don't think, as those are wholly different raven units, right. This part number is the one still being used today in new replacements.

Edit: According to this thread, revisions of the large DU since Q have ceramic bearings (but still steel races), but perhaps still single seals (rather than triple seals that third party remanufacturers do). Out of Warranty Drive Unit Replacement and Cost

And hey, while we're on it, anyone know what they do to small drive units to refurbish them? Speaking of expectations on how long those should last...

 

[maximizese]

My point was that I had a 2 year old replacement unit that failed, which was well below my expectation for a part that originally came with a 8 year warranty. I feel I got a substandard repair and I don't think that is an unreasonable expectation. The comment from the manager that their only goal is to make the vehicle drivable one day past the warranty seems to confirm that.

I have a 2013 Model S 85 with 73K miles and I am now looking at my third drive unit. Got the May not restart and reduced performance warnings and took it in to Tesla with an estimate of $7600 for a new drive unit. Since the last replacement was less than 2 years ago and under 15K miles I asked if they could take something off the price. They informed me their requirement for replacement under warranty is to keep the vehicle driveable until the end of the warranty period, period. Once it is past the warranty period whether it be a day or 2 years they have no responsibility. This seems surprising to me for a high end car like the Tesla Model S particularly since the problem appears to be a design problem with the drive and not the fault of the owner.

I hear you and share your expectations. Generally a replaced item is expected to last as long if not longer than the failed warrantied part. It's not the law, but it tends to be a consumer's expectation based on a manufacturer's improvement in revision and design. In your case, the original drive unit lasted around the 8yr/58K miles mark which seems like a disappointingly short life (I've got a 2001 VW Golf TDI with 320K miles on the original motor, transmission, brakes, and clutch that's been sitting in the garage for the last 5 years). Then you get a replacement drive unit that lasted less than 2yrs/15K miles and are facing a $7,600 repair bill for the same part that was replaced not long ago.

As an outside observer, I would be curious to know the life expectancy of these replacement drive units both in calendar age and mileage. Then I would like to know if these replacement drive units are flawed from the start or is it just luck of draw between some better quality components compared to others. But if I was facing a big repair bill for something that was replaced shorter than expected then I would be voicing my displeasure and questioning what is going on here. I think that is more than reasonable. It's not like you've made any demands or set any unreasonable expectations...like a lifetime warranty.

 

[ScottinAZ]

I hear you and share your expectations. Generally a replaced item is expected to last as long if not longer than the failed warrantied part. It's not the law, but it tends to be a consumer's expectation based on a manufacturer's improvement in revision and design. In your case, the original drive unit lasted around the 8yr/58K miles mark which seems like a disappointingly short life (I've got a 2001 VW Golf TDI with 320K miles on the original motor, transmission, brakes, and clutch that's been sitting in the garage for the last 5 years). Then you get a replacement drive unit that lasted less than 2yrs/15K miles and are facing a $7,600 repair bill for the same part that was replaced not long ago.

As an outside observer, I would be curious to know the life expectancy of these replacement drive units both in calendar age and mileage. Then I would like to know if these replacement drive units are flawed from the start or is it just luck of draw between some better quality components compared to others. But if I was facing a big repair bill for something that was replaced shorter than expected then I would be voicing my displeasure and questioning what is going on here. I think that is more than reasonable. It's not like you've made any demands or set any unreasonable expectations...like a lifetime warranty.

I agree with you. My guess is the remanufactured drive units have a significantly lower life than new drive units. Generally, when you purchase a remanufactured device there is a statement the device has been remanufactured to meet the original manufactured specifications. I have seen no such statement about the tesla drive units and my guess is they do not meet the manufacturers original specifications therefore the shorter life expectancy. I seem to remember reading a post about new drive units being manufactured by robots and remanufactured units rebuilt by people. Anyone in the manufacturing industry knows the defect rate for humans is at least an order of magnitude higher than an automated process.
IF more companies start offering rebuilding of drive units my guess is the rebuild process will get more attention and consumers will be able to make better choices particularly when purchasing a used Tesla. For now the process from Tesla is totally opaque and no one seems to have any real date on how drive units are remanufactured nor how long a consumer should expect them to last. Providing a 4 year warranty on the drive unit provides little insight since the dealer could just include some number of replacements in his cost. If your drive unit was replaced three times under warranty how good would you feel as you approached the fourth year?

 

[islandbayy]

I agree with you. My guess is the remanufactured drive units have a significantly lower life than new drive units. Generally, when you purchase a remanufactured device there is a statement the device has been remanufactured to meet the original manufactured specifications. I have seen no such statement about the tesla drive units and my guess is they do not meet the manufacturers original specifications therefore the shorter life expectancy. I seem to remember reading a post about new drive units being manufactured by robots and remanufactured units rebuilt by people. Anyone in the manufacturing industry knows the defect rate for humans is at least an order of magnitude higher than an automated process.
IF more companies start offering rebuilding of drive units my guess is the rebuild process will get more attention and consumers will be able to make better choices particularly when purchasing a used Tesla. For now the process from Tesla is totally opaque and no one seems to have any real date on how drive units are remanufactured nor how long a consumer should expect them to last. Providing a 4 year warranty on the drive unit provides little insight since the dealer could just include some number of replacements in his cost. If your drive unit was replaced three times under warranty how good would you feel as you approached the fourth year?

I will attest to this in my own experience. I traded in my 2013, at 80k miles, it was going to get it's 5th drive unit in 80k miles and less First the clunk, loud enough it would echo between the houses as I went home. Second Milling noise loud enough where neighbors would come out and ask wtf it was, third had random inverter failure where it would randomly just die out and kick back in. Almost got to test crash worthiness when it decided to cut out in the middle of an intersection as a Semi was coming and I frantically smashed the accelerator, fourth, installed, at the time it was 60.1 miles from service center to my front door. The DU was silent when I left service, by the time I got home it was milling almost as loud as the second. Each progressively got worse and lasted a shorter time. I do not trust the old single drive units.
The Dual Motor changeover though, absolutely rock solid for me so far.

 

[MSMY]

Using a little AI technology, I found the following information:
Revision 1: This was the original drive unit, introduced in 2012. It was known for having some reliability issues, such as bearing failures and noise.
Revision 2: This revision was introduced in 2013 and addressed some of the reliability issues of the original drive unit.
Revision 3: This revision was introduced in 2014 and included a number of improvements, such as a more efficient motor and a new inverter.
Revision 4: This revision was introduced in 2015 and included a number of minor improvements, such as a revised cooling system.
Revision 5: This revision was introduced in 2016 and included a number of major improvements, such as a new motor and inverter.
Revision 6: This revision was introduced in 2017 and is the most recent version of the drive unit. It includes a number of minor improvements, such as a revised gear train.
I have a 2013 MS with a remanufactured drive unit. It was replaced under warranty in 2021 and so far, it works like the old unit when observing the range. Question: When Tesla replaces your DU out of warranty, wouldn't it be best to ask to put in the latest compatible revision, getting a more efficient and reliable DU? This makes the cost more acceptable. Who doesn't want more range and better acceleration.

 

[maximizese]

Well, I think the issue with the AI output is that it doesn't do the best in explaining what and why things happened. For instance, the mention of a more efficient motor and new inverter in 2014 seems to coincide with the introduction of the dual motor platform that uses a smaller rear drive unit in conjunction with a new front drive unit. I'm assuming the efficiency comes with shifting the power bias towards the front unit for steady and moderate acceleration, reserving the full power of the rear unit for heavier acceleration. This is based off the Audi Quattro/VW 4motion system that uses a FWD bias for stability and fuel efficiency.

I would love to be assured that I was getting the most reliable and efficient drive unit when it comes time for replacement, but I don't think there's enough empirical evidence out there that these replacement drive units are any more reliable than the one it's replacing. My original drive unit lasted 92K miles/6 years before getting the dreaded "car may not restart," warnings. I suspect coolant ingress to the inverter based on two previous "low coolant" warnings. I'll be thrilled if my current DU lasts beyond 100K miles/7 years.

 

[ucmndd]

Question: When Tesla replaces your DU out of warranty, wouldn't it be best to ask to put in the latest compatible revision, getting a more efficient and reliable DU?

They already do this.

And that output is very suspect and lacking a lot of detail. It’s conflating a lot of different things across models, configurations, AWD vs RWD, etc etc.

 

[henderrj]

Question, anyone in the Atlanta Ga area with another choice for placing 2014 Model S ( Drive Unit ) other than Tesla ? They quoted $7,500.
Car has about 87,200 miles on it. Purchased it from 1st Owner about 5 months ago. Milling Noise when Accelerating up to about 30 mph. then it smooths out.
It drives very well. That is my only issues.

Thx's

You are close enough to North Carolina that you should contact 057 tech. They do great work, and they do know what they're doing.

 

[Chris310]

Hello everyone,

Sad day. I just took my Model S 2013 60 with 95k to the service center. It’s been having a weird humming noise. She told me it’s probably the drive unit and around 7k. I owe about $25k for the car. I was thinking of just selling the car ($18k) and paying the same difference instead of fixing the car. I love it but I charge up to 150miles now .. I don’t see the value in putting down the money when I can just get a newer tesla? I just don’t know what to do. Any advice would help. Maybe taking it to 3rd party here in Orange County area?

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Hello everyone,

Sad day. I just took my Model S 2013 60 with 95k to the service center. It’s been having a weird humming noise. She told me it’s probably the drive unit and around 7k. I owe about $25k for the car. I was thinking of just selling the car ($18k) and paying the same difference instead of fixing the car. I love it but I charge up to 150miles now .. I don’t see the value in putting down the money when I can just get a newer tesla? I just don’t know what to do. Any advice would help. Maybe taking it to 3rd party here in Orange County area?

The third parties seem to charge about the same as Tesla to fix DU's, but they claim they fix the weak points. Still the hope that 3rd parties would help with the financial equation isn't panning out too well for EV owners.

 

[MP3Mike]

The third parties seem to charge about the same as Tesla to fix DU's, but they claim they fix the weak points. Still the hope that 3rd parties would help with the financial equation isn't panning out too well for EV owners.

Yep, they claim that, but they won't back it with as good of a warranty as Tesla supplies. (4 years/50k miles.)

 

[cduzz]

More-Than-Million-Mile Model S Helps Clarify What is Wrong with Tesla's Motors

EV Clinic offered Hansjörg von Gemmingen the recognition he should have received from Tesla while clarifying what makes the Model S motors fail.

www.autoevolution.com

The belief is that the "new" drive units were pretty high quality, but had a couple significant flaws (coolant can eventually get past seals, the failure is invisible to the end-user, and results in total destruction of the DU). The refurbished DUs are, according to the story, rebuilt to a lower spec (single vs triple seal) and will fail much faster.

Not sure if any of the new or refurbished larger DU motors have the better seals or otherwise address this flaw.

 

[Ecodan]

More-Than-Million-Mile Model S Helps Clarify What is Wrong with Tesla's Motors

EV Clinic offered Hansjörg von Gemmingen the recognition he should have received from Tesla while clarifying what makes the Model S motors fail.

www.autoevolution.com

The belief is that the "new" drive units were pretty high quality, but had a couple significant flaws (coolant can eventually get past seals, the failure is invisible to the end-user, and results in total destruction of the DU). The refurbished DUs are, according to the story, rebuilt to a lower spec (single vs triple seal) and will fail much faster.

Not sure if any of the new or refurbished larger DU motors have the better seals or otherwise address this flaw.

My 2013 P 85 was just diagnosed with needing a new du due to a high whirring sound. Last one was replaced in 2019. Seems like a recurring issue and I’m also wondering if the new du will be better than the 2019 one.

 

[N4HHE]

I too have the cited 2 error codes, performance limited to about 120kW, no regeneration. Appointment next week. $219.50 just for diagnosis.

DU was replaced under warranty at 7 years 11 months for bearing noise during propulsion, quiet coasting. Is now almost 2 years since. No noise, the DU seems to work fine, “but what do I know?”

Couple years ago Carvana said they would pay $26k for this car. Now if no error codes, $14.6k. Tempted to fix and sell but once fixed there is nothing as nice for $15k but for the fear of Yet Another Repair.

 

[BrokerDon]

I too have the cited 2 error codes, performance limited to about 120kW, no regeneration. Appointment next week. $219.50 just for diagnosis.

DU was replaced under warranty at 7 years 11 months for bearing noise during propulsion, quiet coasting. Is now almost 2 years since. No noise, the DU seems to work fine, “but what do I know?”

Couple years ago Carvana said they would pay $26k for this car. Now if no error codes, $14.6k. Tempted to fix and sell but once fixed there is nothing as nice for $15k but for the fear of Yet Another Repair.

What year, model and mileage is your Model S ?

 

[islandbayy]

I too have the cited 2 error codes, performance limited to about 120kW, no regeneration. Appointment next week. $219.50 just for diagnosis.

DU was replaced under warranty at 7 years 11 months for bearing noise during propulsion, quiet coasting. Is now almost 2 years since. No noise, the DU seems to work fine, “but what do I know?”

Couple years ago Carvana said they would pay $26k for this car. Now if no error codes, $14.6k. Tempted to fix and sell but once fixed there is nothing as nice for $15k but for the fear of Yet Another Repair.

Carvana just offered me 11k for a absolutely flawless 2013 model s. Claimed it would sit on the lot forever. I sold it in a matter of days.

Since it's an out of warranty repair, you get what, 4 years 50k .Should have unlimited supercharging right? Free Cellular? Milk it. One of the reasons I have no reservations about using the unlimited supercharging to the extent that I do, is knowing that Tesla's going to charge top dollar for replacing parts that could normally be repaired, nickel & diming, and then they pull stuff like the Pyro fuse, charge for replacing something that is internal to the HV battery, and still covered by warranty. It's not the old tesla anymore. They are now no different than any of the other manufacturers. It makes me quite sad to say that. Tesla was absolutely amazing in the early days.

 

[NV Ray]

Carvana just offered me 11k for a absolutely flawless 2013 model s. Claimed it would sit on the lot forever. I sold it in a matter of days.

How much did you sell it for?

 

[islandbayy]

How much did you sell it for?

Had it listed multiple places, here for $18 or 17, cant remember. Got a facebook marketplace bidding war between two people and got 20k.