Dual Fatality Model S Crash/Fire: Fort Lauderdale, FL May 8, 2018

[JohnSnowNW]

Ok, then lets go to IIHS:

2017 Model S: 2017 Tesla Model S
2017 E-class: 2017 Mercedes-Benz E-Class

A HIC-15 of 526 (106g) on small overlap front is Very Poor!!!

Yes, you changed the parameters. In this case you're comparing a redesigned 2017 E-class to a non-redesigned Model S, and then using a test that the Model S wasn't designed to account for because it wasn't in use until recently.

And again, Elon's comments concerning the NHTS results were 3 years before...

 

[IngTH]

What is wrong in comparing models of same year? Didn't have model S a facelift in 2016?

 

[juanmedina]

What is wrong in comparing models of same year? Didn't have model S a facelift in 2016?

View attachment 300261

The Nissan leaf is a turd..

 

[IngTH]

I read: "The Model S had higher collision claim frequencies, severities and overall losses than other large luxury cars."

Put model S fatalities in this list, and tell me again about 'safest car' or similar:

 

[GaryW]

Yes, you changed the parameters. In this case you're comparing a redesigned 2017 E-class to a non-redesigned Model S, and then using a test that the Model S wasn't designed to account for because it wasn't in use until recently.

And again, Elon's comments concerning the NHTS results were 3 years before...

Agreed. He called Elon a liar. I responded with the quote showing the truth of Elon’s claims.

Now he is moving the goal posts. I believe any response will cause him to move the goal posts again.

 

[bro1999]

Agreed. He called Elon a liar. I responded with the quote showing the truth of Elon’s claims.

Now he is moving the goal posts. I believe any response will cause him to move the goal posts again.

 

[PhantomX]

To reset this discussion a bit. IIHS started doing small overlap tests in 2012. Model S was around at that time, it was just never tested by IIHS until last year. Many cars out there have passed small over lap tests with the top scores, but many others also did not. The standards were there for every manufacturer to see, so Tesla had plenty of time to address it prior to 1st IIHS test. And it did score 5 stars in NHTSA tests, but it also did not perform quite as good as others in the Euro NCAP and in the IIHS testings.

Bottom line though, Model S is a very safe car, but I think we should all agree that it's not the safest car on the market, and there are things that Tesla can do to improve its safety. In this particular case in Florida, I think all of us would agree that high speed was an issue, but I would assume all agree that no one should die of fire, regardless of the source of the fire.

 

[Kandiru]

No comment, I would usually throw in something about discipline and key safes (one is on the wall in my garage) but having teens my thoughts go to the grieving patricians.

 

[McRat]

I read: "The Model S had higher collision claim frequencies, severities and overall losses than other large luxury cars."

Put model S fatalities in this list, and tell me again about 'safest car' or similar:
View attachment 300276

The Mercedes E-class sedan has 9 deaths, hence should not be on the list. AWD is an option, not a new model. Or you must split Model S's by drive configuration.

The Volt stat might include the crash where a M235 BMW driven by a 20-year-old with 4 recent prior high speed offenses (faster than a normal speeding ticket), hit the Volt broadside at very high speed. The BMW was traveling 115 mph in a 45mph zone, but reduced it's speed to 75 mph at time of impact (instead of trying to avoid the impact) when it tore through the Volt and launched into the air. It killed 3 people in Volt immediately and maimed the survivor. The BMW driver was not seriously injured. He is was sentenced to 30 years but will probably be out in time for Christmas 2019, since they suspended 18 years of the sentence, and you only need to serve 25% of your sentence, so 10%. This occurred in a residential zone directly in front of a busy school while there was an event being held there.

The convict will be able to regain his driver's license shortly after his release. He will probably get the felony expunged. Maryland, gotta love it. Could even get the Ted Kennedy Driver of the Year Award.

Cliff Notes: The Volt did not catch fire even though taking a direct 75mph lethal hit on the battery's most vulnerable surface.

 

[bro1999]

The Mercedes E-class sedan has 9 deaths, hence should not be on the list. AWD is an option, not a new model. Or you must split Model S's by drive configuration.

The Volt stat might include the crash where a M235 BMW driven by a 20-year-old with 4 recent prior high speed offenses (faster than a normal speeding ticket), hit the Volt broadside at very high speed. The BMW was traveling 115 mph in a 45mph zone, but reduced it's speed to 75 mph at time of impact (instead of trying to avoid the impact) when it tore through the Volt and launched into the air. It killed 3 people in Volt immediately and maimed the survivor. The BMW driver was not seriously injured. He is was sentenced to 30 years but will probably be out in time for Christmas 2019, since they suspended 18 years of the sentence, and you only need to serve 25% of your sentence, so 10%. This occurred in a residential zone directly in front of a busy school while there was an event being held there.

The convict will be able to regain his driver's license shortly after his release. He will probably get the felony expunged. Maryland, gotta love it. Could even get the Ted Kennedy Driver of the Year Award.

Cliff Notes: The Volt did not catch fire even though taking a direct 75mph lethal hit on the battery's most vulnerable surface.

That was a tragic crash indeed. The fact the driver died despite being on the opposite side of the impact says something to the severity. People sitting on the passenger side never had a chance.

Driver Sentenced to 12 Years in Crash That Killed 3 Members of Bethesda Family
This Volt took a beating but had a happier ending. And no fire.

Pretty sobering read of what first responders experience at a fatal crash scene.
From the Magazine: Behind the Scenes with the Montgomery County Police Collision Reconstruction Unit

 

[IngTH]

I responded with the quote showing the truth of Elon’s claims.

And i responded with stastics that proved him a liar. You may call it goal post hoping or whatever.

Design flaws show up with time! And concerning fiery crashes they already showed up before in Kent, Merida, Mursfreesboro, LA, Malibu, Gratkorn, Baarn, Indianapolis, Guanzhou, Irvine, Ermenssee, Burien, Lake Forest, Pians, Mountainview. So this fiery crash was just a matter of time to happen!

 

[McRat]

That was a tragic crash indeed. The fact the driver died despite being on the opposite side of the impact says something to the severity. People sitting on the passenger side never had a chance.
...

To think that a $99 one day driving class would have probably saved 3 lives, the parents should spend a little time in jail. It was dad's hotrod coupe he let junior play fast-n-furious in.

Junior was probably completely unaware that you can MASH the brake until you bend the pedal and still steer the car. You can think of ABS as "Allows Braking while Steering". 6' feet to the left or right would have saved lives. He tried to go right through the car, probably unaware he had choices to make.

He was on the brakes 2.5 seconds according to the black box. Two and 1/2 seconds is forever at 100mph. It's 25 car lengths. Full application of the brakes on the M235 should have brought the speed under 60 mph, which would have allowed even more time to steer and slow down.

But the driver didn't know how what the car he was driving was capable of, or how he should react in an emergency.

A minivan at 115 mph could have probably avoided that impact with an experienced driver.

 

[TaoJones]

Here is a recent example, as in yesterday. It is at least the 4th fiery crash this week hereabouts.

I suspect nobody outside of SoCal has heard of this accident(al tragedy). This one happened at 09:30 in the morning - broad daylight, urban intersection.

Now, had there been a Tesla involved, presto - international news and a federal investigation.

2 killed in fiery crash across from Inglewood fire station – Daily Breeze

 

[Ofarlig]

If the press are so interested in keeping down the deaths it seems like they should push for making it actually hard to get your license, as is the fact in most of the world.

 

[Jack Tripper]

Moving some posts to snippiness

Keep things civil, please.

I thought snippiness was a euphemism, didnt realize it's an actual thread.

Thread watched. Thanks!

 

[Burnt Toast]

They must have only recently added those. This is from 2014:
View attachment 300091

Daniil Kvyat, Scuderia Toro Rosso STR9 catches fire and retires from the race at German GP

Unless you mean explosive as in a big boom, fireball, the whole car in pieces kind of explosion, well, in that case EV's haven't had any of those either.

That's an oil fire, not a fire from a fuel tank in an accident. I don't think you're following the conversation here. The car is clearly not damaged in an accident, that is some kind of leak. They have had self sealing tanks for at least a decade, probably more.

 

[McRat]

Here is a recent example, as in yesterday. It is at least the 4th fiery crash this week hereabouts.

I suspect nobody outside of SoCal has heard of this accident(al tragedy). This one happened at 09:30 in the morning - broad daylight, urban intersection.

Now, had there been a Tesla involved, presto - international news and a federal investigation.

2 killed in fiery crash across from Inglewood fire station – Daily Breeze

Notice the airbags aren't even scorched or the paint discolored.
Now look at Paul Walker's car or the Florida crash.

Those are newsworthy fires which are normally seen for several miles in all directions.

 

[jelloslug]

What is wrong in comparing models of same year? Didn't have model S a facelift in 2016?

View attachment 300261

A new bumper cover will not change the structure of the car.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

We had this truck burn last week after a offset head on + spill 100 gallons of diesel on a bridge above a river. Driver of the other car died (deserved it? he was speeding and passing cars illegally just before this). Northern CA. Highway 101 was closed for ~5 hrs

 

[Graffi]

With any High Speed crash the one thing all the safety equipment in the world will not save is the human body, internal organs and brain. Going from 60 mph to 0 mph withing the one or two feet of crumple zone will destroy these organs, even with air bags which will preserve the outer shell of our body.

I do not know the speed at impact, but since it was enough to start a battery fire it was very high. Even if these kids were able to be removed from the vehicle there is a high probability they would have died from "internal injuries".

Please do not get me wrong. I am very sad for the loss of any life, and I send my thoughts and prayers to the family.

I was under the impression that any Tesla battery fire takes some time to become a large fire. Does anyone know how long it will take, or did take, in these recent Tesla Crash fires?