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EAP + Carpool + motorcycles = painful

brianp6621

Member
Mar 20, 2018
55
20
San Jose
I commute in very heavy SF bay area traffic for 2 hours a day.
Riding in the carpool lane in commute traffic is nearly the ideal use case for EAP. No worries about constantly having to adjust your own speed etc. It could be heaven.

However motorcycles lane splitting really puts a kink in this.

Under even normal circumstances I dislike the lane-splitting allowed in California as I think it is dangerous and very disruptive to all the other drivers in the normal lanes. During carpool it is the worst, you have the main lanes moving 15-20, the carpool moving 35-45 and the motorcycles coming up at 50-60mph weaving back and forth in between. That is too many and too high of speed deltas in a very tiny (5 foot or less space) I think it is selfish to think that people in both lanes have to constantly veer away from you in order to allow you to safely pass. This also means for people in the carpool lane that they have to move into the center median which is often littered with debris and hazards destined at some point to take out a tire or more. If you don't move over you almost unanimously get rev'd engines, the shake of their head, the middle finger/shouts at worst, and all the while have someone scraping by your mirrors. Can you imagine the amount of people a single motorcyclist inconvenience along a 20 mile bay area commute just so they can lane split? I really don't know why CA allows it in these scenarios.

Despite all this I had learned to be a good motorist and move over when I can.
Well now with EAP, this results in only 3 possible outcomes.

1. Use EAP and have the above consequences (revving motors, head shakes, middle fingers etc) at least once every minute during my commute
2. Use EAP and manually disable it each time, again average once per minute, huge pain in the butt making it likely not worth the effort
3. Don't use EAP in what could be a near ideal use case.

Thoughts?
 
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commasign

TeslaAdviceBlog.com
Aug 31, 2013
3,202
4,178
Davis, CA
...painful...for the motorcyclist if they get hit ;)

I don't think this is completely an autopilot problem. Even with autopilot off or when driving a gas car, if I'm playing music I often don't notice a motorcycle coming up anyway. Not my job to keep looking in my mirrors every 10 seconds while in stop-and-go traffic.
 
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TaoJones

Beyond Driven
Nov 10, 2014
3,064
2,857
The Americas
Not my job to keep looking in my mirrors every 10 seconds while in stop-and-go traffic.

Strictly speaking, it actually is*.

Just as it's the navigator's job (meaning the captain if alone) to keep scanning the horizon frequently while underway even if there isn't another vessel for miles.


* Until AP5 :)
 
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commasign

TeslaAdviceBlog.com
Aug 31, 2013
3,202
4,178
Davis, CA
Strictly speaking, it actually is*.

Just as it's the navigator's job (meaning the captain if alone) to keep scanning the horizon frequently while underway even if there isn't another vessel for miles.


* Until AP5 :)

Yeah, I get what you're saying. But... in the case of motorcycles, if I'm in lane, is there a law that says I HAVE to move over for a motorcycle? Or is it one of those things where it's the motorcyclists' responsibility to lane split safely? Too lazy to read through the DMV manual. ;)
 

brianp6621

Member
Mar 20, 2018
55
20
San Jose
Even an alert driver can't/shouldn't be staring in the right side mirror 100% of the time so there absolutely will be cases when motorcycles show up completely unexpected and going much faster than you or the lane next to you.
 

brianp6621

Member
Mar 20, 2018
55
20
San Jose
Start electing officials that see things your way?
I wish it were that easy.

Also it isn't just the law issue, it is the entitlement/attitude of the motorcyclists who feel entitled to that 5 feet of roadway (the line + 2.5 feet per side) regardless of anything going on in the lanes.
 

BIG ACH

Member
Oct 28, 2017
219
180
Orlando, Fl
Lived in the SF bay area for 4 years until last year when I moved.... nothing drove me crazier than the motorcycle lane splitting and the, sometimes, very risky and irresponsible behavior of some motorcycle riders.

(FYI - I don't ride now, but I do still have my Motorcycle endorsement!)
 
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McRat

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2016
5,771
5,414
LA
I commute in very heavy SF bay area traffic for 2 hours a day.
Riding in the carpool lane in commute traffic is nearly the ideal use case for EAP. No worries about constantly having to adjust your own speed etc. It could be heaven.

However motorcycles lane splitting really puts a kink in this.

Under even normal circumstances I dislike the lane-splitting allowed in California as I think it is dangerous and very disruptive to all the other drivers in the normal lanes. During carpool it is the worst, you have the main lanes moving 15-20, the carpool moving 35-45 and the motorcycles coming up at 50-60mph weaving back and forth in between. That is too many and too high of speed deltas in a very tiny (5 foot or less space) I think it is selfish to think that people in both lanes have to constantly veer away from you in order to allow you to safely pass. This also means for people in the carpool lane that they have to move into the center median which is often littered with debris and hazards destined at some point to take out a tire or more. If you don't move over you almost unanimously get rev'd engines, the shake of their head, the middle finger/shouts at worst, and all the while have someone scraping by your mirrors. Can you imagine the amount of people a single motorcyclist inconvenience along a 20 mile bay area commute just so they can lane split? I really don't know why CA allows it in these scenarios.

Despite all this I had learned to be a good motorist and move over when I can.
Well now with EAP, this results in only 3 possible outcomes.

1. Use EAP and have the above consequences (revving motors, head shakes, middle fingers etc) at least once every minute during my commute
2. Use EAP and manually disable it each time, again average once per minute, huge pain in the butt making it likely not worth the effort
3. Don't use EAP in what could be a near ideal use case.

Thoughts?

Lane splitting was permitted in 1975 when I started riding. So there's that.

You are not obliged to 'move over', just stay in the center of your 12' wide lane (the legal lane width) with your 7' wide car. That's it. Nothing else desired or required. Avoid zig-zagging like a 16 year old who's mom bought him a BMW. Use those weird flashing lights that warn others you want to change lanes. Stay off the phone. When you need to use the phone, stay off the phone, except when it's really important. In that case, stay off the phone.

IIRC, motorcycles were permitted to use the HOV lanes before Teslas were ever made. Trust me, car drivers are 10 times more hostile to motorcycles on all kinds of roads and all situations, than MC's are hostile to cars. I've been on both sides. Today's car drivers are least talented drivers of all time. Darwinism selects motorcyclists. Airbags piss in the gene pool for car drivers. They live to be dumb another day.

"Even in normal circumstances" I detest folk who believe they are so important that answering a text or cell call is worth another human's life. That is what will kill you, not motorcycles running into you.
 

McRat

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2016
5,771
5,414
LA
Lived in the SF bay area for 4 years until last year when I moved.... nothing drove me crazier than the motorcycle lane splitting and the, sometimes, very risky and irresponsible behavior of some motorcycle riders.

(FYI - I don't ride now, but I do still have my Motorcycle endorsement!)

You should see how Florida car drivers operate their vehicles. You can't really call it driving, it's more like Random Motion. :D
 

demundus

Active Member
Jul 5, 2015
1,335
868
Oceanside, CA
I split all the time when its slow, pass by numerous AP1 and AP2 cars... and I definitely pucker, waiting for the computer to decide today is my day to die.

That said, if you dislike splitting, vote in people who dislike it, but it will likely never go away... there is way too much support for it (and it does make some sense if you understand why it was put in place).
 
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McRat

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2016
5,771
5,414
LA
I split all the time when its slow, pass by numerous AP1 and AP2 cars... and I definitely pucker, waiting for the computer to decide today is my day to die.

That said, if you dislike splitting, vote in people who dislike it, but it will likely never go away... there is way too much support for it (and it does make some sense if you understand why it was put in place).

OP needs to visit Europe. :D
 

McRat

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2016
5,771
5,414
LA
OP needs to ride a motorcycle in the summer heat in california :D
Especially if you're an ATGATT kind of rider. For car folk, All The Gear All The Time is a philosophy that has kept many motorcyclists alive. We up-armor our bodies just in case. You can only dodge 99.xxx% of crazy cars. Eventually, one will get past your defenses.

But ATGATT sitting still in traffic can get brutally hot.

And here's a big surprise to lots of car drivers. If a motorcycle drives like a car, it is more likely to be run into. Watch how many cars slam into the back of other cars. It's a constant stream. MC riders go to the hospital/morgue when you do that. And when you're in a lane, squirrels will change lanes right into you. They don't even look. So being near the lines can mitigate injury or death. Which is good when you're expected somewhere that day.
 

skitown

Member
Dec 28, 2015
869
2,256
Central Idaho, U.S.A, Earth
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animorph

Active Member
Apr 1, 2016
2,149
1,546
Scottsdale, AZ
We were perfectly happy to road trip with TACC only, back when AP2 Autosteer was pretty much drunk. That picked us up 80% of the AP benefit since steering is so easy. Maybe 100% if you have to worry about Autosteer doing crazy things. Maybe 60% if you're in slow traffic. Although Autosteer is pretty good now, I have no problem using TACC-only when conditions call for it.
 

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