TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC
Start a Discussionhttps://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/tags/

EAP - Does it make sense at all on a lease?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by int-veh, Sep 12, 2017.

Tags:
  1. int-veh

    int-veh Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2017
    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Waiting on my new S 75 to be delivered end of this month.

    After reading the several posts on EAP and its current state, I really find it hard to justify paying for EAP on a lease. Perhaps it might make sense if you're buying. But if the full potential of EAP is only realized in another one year, what is point of spending the money now when leasing? It adds about $100/month to the lease.

    Here is my OA trying to sell it to me when I asked him this question. What do you folks think?

    Enhanced Auto Pilot is the safest form of driving on the road. For the thousands of clients that use AP everyday there will of course be a few where keyboard warriors who may have used AP incorrectly or in an unadvised situation. Tesla prides itself in having the safest cars on the road and Enhanced Auto Pilot is certainly an extension to that.

    I have used EAP everyday for test drives and when I get a chance to take the car's home and I would much rather have a system with over a million miles of daily experience than my self drive on the free way.

    That said, we did do a 30 day trial a year ago or so but that is not offered now. If EAP is added after delivery it would be a direct $6k charge and can not be added to the lease.

    "EAP is the safest form of driving on the road"! Really?
     
  2. DrivingRockies

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Messages:
    498
    Location:
    US
    For a lease? EAP yes, FSD no.

    I wouldn't own a Tesla if it weren't for the autopilot.
     
    • Like x 4
    • Helpful x 1
  3. brkaus

    brkaus Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2014
    Messages:
    2,387
    EAP is fine. Just test drive it and understand what it does. Then make the call. I love it, even with it’s issues.
     
    • Love x 1
  4. kdday

    kdday Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2016
    Messages:
    251
    Location:
    AZ
    Agreed. EAP is essentially AP at this point. Not quite parity, but usable.

    FSD I wouldn't opt for, unless you like just flushing your cash down the drain on TBD features on an unknown timeline. (This coming for a huge tesla fan).
     
  5. int-veh

    int-veh Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2017
    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    So please enlighten me, what is it about EAP that makes it so compelling for you? From all I've read, it sounds like a stressful system to use. Don't you've to be doubly attentive to both watch the road as well as the EAP system?
     
  6. DrivingRockies

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Messages:
    498
    Location:
    US
    I run it (AP1, I don't have EAP) like I do autopilots in the aircraft I fly. I know the limitations. When you get to know the system, you can learn the personalities. It allows your attention to be used more for watching the other people on the road, which to me are the biggest danger. After you learn the system, the surprises start to disappear.

    Autopilots on aircraft are the same way. They're not perfect. But they make life easier when you learn to work WITH them.
     
    • Like x 4
    • Disagree x 1
  7. oktane

    oktane Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1,498
    Location:
    USA
    Actually autopilots on aircraft are pretty close to perfect. There is no comparison between a certified airplane autopilot and Teslas AP2.
     
  8. int-veh

    int-veh Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2017
    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Fair enough. However, 1) EAP sounds quote inferior to AP1. 2) I suppose for someone like yourself, trained many hours on AP in airplanes it might be a familiar experience. However, for folks like me who are just regular car drivers, isn't it a bit much to pay for something like this that seem to require quite a bit of training/usage to get a good hang of? Perhaps we all might need some sort of AP training in the near future? But in meanwhile?
     
  9. DrivingRockies

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Messages:
    498
    Location:
    US
    They are better, yes. Far from perfect. Especially on smaller general aviation aircraft.
     
  10. int-veh

    int-veh Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2017
    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    What exactly do you love about it? And what are the issues you've come across?

    I've tried it in test drives. However, I find it difficult to determine how reliable/erratic it really is from a test drive on streets/highways chosen by Tesla reps. It is the case negative posts on the forums skew the actual real world experience?

    If it is really "the safest form of driving on the road" as the OA says, I'd gladly pay for it. I'm try to get a sense from actual users if EAP/AP2 really is a significant safety enhancer at this point.
     
  11. DrivingRockies

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Messages:
    498
    Location:
    US
    1) Unfortunately I can't speak to that.
    2) I don't think specific training is necessary, but I'm speaking for myself and those close to me. Perhaps AVAILABLE training for those that need it. It's not autonomous, it's an advanced cruise control system that must be watched. I like it, wish it was better, but would (and am) buying again.
     
  12. Sawyer8888

    Sawyer8888 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    257
    Location:
    South Florida
    #12 Sawyer8888, Sep 12, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
    Adding EAP does not make sense, but it is a must.

    Is it really "the safest form of driving on the road" as the OA says? No. Most human drivers that are following the rules of the road and paying attention are still safer than EAP as well as AP1.

    Learning to use EAP doesn't take much time. Very little training is needed IMO. Just be extra cautious early on and always be extremely attentive if using it on a side road as it does have a tendency to make some unusual moves.

    Having some limited experience with AP1, I would ask Tesla to load up the first version instead of AP2, at least for now. I drive with EAP regularly and have always enjoyed my AP1 loaners - much more than the second version. Unfortunately AP1 is not a possibility for a new model. Granted, both AP1 and 2 (EAP) are similar, however AP1 is definitely less stressful in my experience and worth every penny of the $2500 or so that it cost. EAP at double the price could reach parity at any moment, but it is currently only worth $1500, or perhaps $2000 at best when compared to its predecessor.

    My answer to your question as to whether EAP makes sense for a current Tesla lease - yes and no. It does not make sense financially, whether it be a lease or a purchase. Does it make sense otherwise? Yes. Does that make sense? :confused:

    EAP was the driving force that led me to buy the car. Many depreciating assets of $70K+ do not make a ton of financial sense, so throwing another $5K at it is not changing the outcome much of what makes sense and what doesn't - financially. IMO it's hard to justify leasing or purchasing without adding EAP, even if it is not yet as good as the first version, because one day it will be (so they say). $100/month is significant. So hopfully we can realize how spectacular EAP can be, sooner rather than later.

    When you consider that the Toyota Corolla has dynamic radar cruise control, lane-departure alert with steering assist, and a pre-collision system with pedestrian detection, along with automatic high beams, it's a bit hard to believe that Tesla has not yet done more with EAP.

    EAP is still an impressive feat, and it is fun to enable as long as you know its limitations. So if that is all that you ever know, you will be happy. Just don't get in an AP1 loaner anytime soon.
     
    • Helpful x 1
    • Like x 1
  13. azred

    azred Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2016
    Messages:
    820
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ
    FYI, I didn't buy it for my S nor will I for my 3. Your summary fits my attitude exactly. I usually keep cars for 7-10 years and if Tesla gets EAP debugged in a year or two I may buy it, but not for $6000. It's not a big deal for me as I like driving and surely wouldn't pay $6000 (or $5000 at car purchase) for the functionality -- even it was trustworthy.
     
  14. TaoJones

    TaoJones Beyond Driven

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2014
    Messages:
    1,686
    Location:
    The Americas
    Consider a CPO AP1 car as a bridge for 2-3 years as significant changes are expected by then.

    The TACC with AP1 is quite good.

    After 5 months with an AP2 car, it's very difficult to recommend it over a CPO AP1 car - especially given the cost difference, and given the fact that I have a semblance of a conscience.

    In 3 years, ideally there will be better choices.

    Still waiting for traffic light and stop sign reaction (versus mere recognition) which was referenced when AP1 was released now almost 3 years ago.
     
    • Like x 2
  15. zambono

    zambono Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2016
    Messages:
    986
    Location:
    DC
    Thats a hell of a helmet, is that the canopy of an F-16? It seem kind of curvy as opposed to the new fighters.
     
  16. DrivingRockies

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Messages:
    498
    Location:
    US
    One of the early iterations of the F-35 helmets. I don't think it's the current model.
     
  17. PrGrPa

    PrGrPa Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2017
    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    Manchester
    I’ve considered EAP an option ahead of any of the other additions. I’d rather have it than AWD, the upgraded interior, or PUP.

    I really enjoyed the EAP on a test. To me it seemed like the move from a manual to an automatic: letting you focus on the driving pieces that need your attention.

    I’m also sticking with EAP because of its Autopark additions. My SO’s Mercedes has Parktronic and when I can activate it properly I’ve found it an incredible assistant for my lamentable parking skills.

    Like a few have said, it would be great to see more features roll out with EAP. Though EAP does more than I suggest, £4,700 for assisted reverse parking and enhanced adaptive cruise control is a lot to add to an already expensive and well-specced car.
     
  18. brkaus

    brkaus Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2014
    Messages:
    2,387
    If you were here in Texas I'd let you demo. That's how I'm going for referrals :)

    The first time I drove from San Antonio to Austin on IH-35 in about 45 miles of stop-n-go traffic I was hooked. The real win was after a while, my wife stopped pointing at the cars in front of us slowing down or stopping so I wouldn't hit them.

    First off, I never drive for extended periods without my hand or at least a few fingers on the steering wheel. With a finger on the wheel, I can feel if it is going off in the weeds very quickly and react. It does go off into the weeds.

    Surface streets -

    It generally does well on surface streets at slow(er) speeds. Say 50mph or less. The biggest benefit on surface streets is the TACC. It handles stop and go easily. You will occasionally be annoyed by the TACC tracking a car pulling off the road longer than it should and slowing down more that it needs to, but otherwise it is pretty good. The lane keeping does a reasonable job, except at intersections.

    2-4 lane highways w/ no shoulders -

    We have lots of these in Texas. I will use EAP when I'm alone in the car (keeping a finger on the wheel). I generally won't use it when my wife is in the car. It's turning is sometimes "rocky" on sweeping turns. Instead of smooth turns, it will sometimes make turns in steps. Like a piecewise linear approximation of a circle. The biggest place I notice it gets confused is when there is a sweeping turn and an intersection on the turn. I just pay more attention at those sort of places.

    Highways -

    I find it does very well. As I mention above, I will leave my hand/fingers on the wheel as much as possible. It does let me be a bit more relaxed, for example I can glance at things on the side of the road a touch longer or I can pay more attention to a car in another lane that is "wondering" without worrying about wondering myself.


    That's a bit of marketing hype. But, I do I feel like the partnership of the driver & car is safer. Consider many accidents are hitting the car in front or drifting into the next lane due to lack of driver attention it definitely helps in those cases.

    On the other side, if one expects to pull back the stalk 2 times and then put their hands behind their neck and relax... it has a good chance of causing an accident, especially on surface streets.

    Auto parking is a nice concept, hasn't worked for me yet. Last firmware update was the first time it started back in spots for me. I need to play with this more now. Do note that parking is based on ultrasonics and not cameras. So it parks between cars, not between lines.
     
    • Like x 1
  19. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2014
    Messages:
    7,989
    Location:
    EU
    Well, that's completely different...

    AP1 is a solid product. AP2/EAP is not.
     
  20. davinci2017

    davinci2017 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Messages:
    228
    Location:
    Milpitas, CA, USA
    At this point, I think you may be better off without it. I was super excited for the possibilities and the promises and plunked down money but it has really been way too long without enough updates to justify the cost. I for one would love to use it more frequently, but the the sort of drivers and lanes and roads we have, the system needs to be better than the infrastructure.

    Right now the system expects a perfect world, perfect lane makers, perfectly set speed limits on every road without sharp turns, and perfect drivers around you with no surprises. This almost never happens in the real world and hence it requires a lot of attention from the driver.

    That said, it depends on your commute/usage. If you live/drive in freeways that are relatively empty and straight with good well defined markings and are fairly straight, it will do a stellar job for the most part. If you live in the bay area like many folks here or similar high traffic, messy freeways, construction etc, it will try to kill you a few times every other day unless you are super paranoid about enabling.disabling taking over constantly which ends up being more stress than just driving the car.
     
    • Like x 2

Share This Page