Electrical genius required?

[Casss]

Once you go above 16 A, a second of the three on-board 16 A AC to DC converters needs to be used. The circuitry that is load-balancing the power between them must be causing interference that the gates don't like.

Could be. Logical in the sense that its one of the components where EMI is a huge challenge, but conversely it would be pretty crazy if the onboard charger was the source because they put a lot of effort into EMI filtering in the onboard charger and the penthouse area of the car for this exact reason. OP has tested two cars, and neither are showing any faults. Then there's the distance and the fact the gates start to open - 40m ish??

From what I understand, all three phases are shielded and go into the single onboard charger which is a sealed unit with a crap ton of EMI filters. Shielding on this is super important because of where it sits in the car so it would be a pretty big leak... or faulty onboard chargers on two different cars.

I wonder if OP has had a mobile phone on the wireless charging pad both times... *dons tinfoil*

 

[LiamPope]

Very interesting. Surely can't be a coincidence it happens precisely when two of the Tesla onboard chargers are kicked into operation? Too much THD? Maybe the cars are within specs but this gate circuit and equipment is unusually susceptible? Maybe a Tesla Wall Connector has some kind of filtering/correction the third party chargers lack which doesn't usually matter, but does here? Harmonic distortion can lead to increased core losses and reduced torque in motors. Could be interesting to get an oscilloscope on the supply and look at THD when the second Tesla charger kicks in.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

The gate may be the only AC device around, if it's an old AC motor. Maybe the hoover would notice..

 

[GPDP]

Once the weather picks up a bit I'll get out there with a multimeter and see what readings I get at the gate control panel / motors etc.
I also intend to run an extension lead to the gates and use that as the power source to test if all works ok or not, in the various scenarios.... maybe being able to prove or discount the possibility of an under sized or damaged under ground cable.
No oscilloscope though!
The gates aren't the only items around, I have a remote control garage door which is right beside the car and chargers, it works fine when the cars are charging at full power, as do the lights / power points in the garage.

 

[dafish]

Check voltage to ground and voltage to neutral as each are charging. The Tesla might be passing voltage to either and triggering something in the gate.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I can't find a graph on Teslafi

Clicking on the "Charge complete" icon will drill down to a graph of the duration of the charge ...

... but I suspect that the detailed data which you posted would be more useful (and if it spanned the moment at which the gates operation was attempted - although TeslaFi only recording every minute, so apart from the specific voltage around that time it wouldn't show a spike / drop at the time that the gates were operates)

No oscilloscope though!

Amazon prime? ... I'll get my coat!

 

[GPDP]

Clicking on the "Charge complete" icon will drill down to a graph of the duration of the charge ...

... but I suspect that the detailed data which you posted would be more useful (and if it spanned the moment at which the gates operation was attempted - although TeslaFi only recording every minute, so apart from the specific voltage around that time it wouldn't show a spike / drop at the time that the gates were operates)

View attachment 902379



Amazon prime? ... I'll get my coat!

Ah.. I did see that graph, but thought it not overly useful as a screenshot as you wouldn't be able to run along and see the rising and falling voltage rate.

You'll definitely need your coat.. it's baltic today!

 

[LiamPope]

Not sure what you're level of experience is, so I'll just say if you are going to expose live parts and measure mains voltage with multimeter probes please be very careful! If not fully confident you know what you're doing, now could be time to call the sparky. Be safe.

 

[Exy1]

Bit late to the party on this one and have been speed reading so apologies if I've missed some electrical genius.

My guess is probably harmonic distortion or/and voltage drop.

Either way a UPS will fix either of those issues AND allow your gates to operate during a power cut.

Win/Win as they are buttons to buy these days and I have a fantastic story about a Steam Room and a UPS.

 

[GPDP]

Bit late to the party on this one and have been speed reading so apologies if I've missed some electrical genius.

My guess is probably harmonic distortion or/and voltage drop.

Either way a UPS will fix either of those issues AND allow your gates to operate during a power cut.

Win/Win as they are buttons to buy these days and I have a fantastic story about a Steam Room and a UPS.

I'll have to check that out, but as the gates are actually getting power will a UPS come on?

Maybe some sort of system that goes between the breaker and the gate control panel so that the control panel requests power to move the gates and it gets it from a constantly charged battery?

 

[Sean.]

It’s the only plausible explanation left. We have discounted volt drop and RF interference. The fact that 2 Teslas cause the same issue would suggest they do something different, in terms of charging, to the BMW.

I imagine it’s not more widespread because of the unique blend of equipment the OP has. It may be that his gates controller is particularly affected by the harmonics kicked out by Teslas.

The common denominator is Tesla, just my 2p.

For what it’s worth I’ll chuck a Fluke scopemeter across the supply phases, neural and earth when charging over the weekend with Tesla Gen2 wall connector on three phase. It’s never presented any problems over many, many years, but will see just what harmonic shite, if any, it’s passing back to the supply.

I’m still bemused that this should be some esoteric but widespread RF noise / harmonic distortion issue problem - why is affecting just one chap with a gate that doesn’t want to open on a VERY long (unproven gauge & unknown provenance) connection. My bets still on the latter.

 

[MrT3]

I'll have to check that out, but as the gates are actually getting power will a UPS come on?

Depending on the type of UPS it would be filtering and/or conditioning the output voltage, and would compensate for any dips in voltage (but I think we have pretty much ruled that out).

If you are going to try a mains extension to the gate, then you could also try a mains conditioning filter at the gate end, something like this:

Amazon.co.uk

test and return if it didn't work.

 

[thax1]

Inferior Power Factor introduced with the Tesla system vs BMW perhaps?

Power factor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not sure it’d be worth investing in correction equipment for this application though!

 

[Sean.]

Inferior Power Factor introduced with the Tesla system vs BMW perhaps?

Power factor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not sure it’d be worth investing in correction equipment for this application though!

It wouldn't pass the statutory country regs if it was that fubar. Surely. I pan Tesla on occasion, but their electronics are NOT that shabby.

 

[thax1]

It wouldn't pass the statutory country regs if it was that fubar. Surely. I pan Tesla on occasion, but their electronics are NOT that shabby.

Meh, I was just trying to keep the thread going until the OP admits he’s realised that the reason the gates don’t open is that the Tesla is a longer vehicle than the i3 and the front bumper is stopping them.

 

[Sean.]

Millions of gate openers across the world stop when Tesla owners plug their cars in to charge. No don't think so

 

[LiamPope]

Millions of gate openers across the world stop when Tesla owners plug their cars in to charge. No don't think so

It's an edge case! Can't be just volt drop if it doesn't happen with a 9.5 kW shower running and a BMW pulling 32 A on the same circuit as the gate, but does happen with only a Tesla pulling >16 A on a separate circuit. My final report to be submitted to the OP for only £1000/hr looks like...

Causal factors:

Likely combination of undersized/too long cable to gate causing significant voltage drop during motor inrush current, and/or degraded motor, and/or poor condition stiff mechanism requiring high torque to move meaning in normal conditions the motor has only just enough torque to get the gate moving.

In the specific case of a Tesla on charge over 16 A, so it is using two onboard chargers, it injects just enough harmonic distortion to the supply that the motor torque is reduced just enough to stall when operated. Doesn't happen with the BMW cos it has less harmonic distortion, I dunno.

Remedy:

Upgraded underground cable or filtering/isolation, UPS etc for gate.

Bets in.

 

[Sean.]

It's an edge case! Can't be just volt drop if it doesn't happen with a 9.5 kW shower running and a BMW pulling 32 A on the same circuit as the gate, but does happen with only a Tesla pulling >16 A on a separate circuit. My final report to be submitted to the OP for only £1000/hr looks like...

gonna be some edge case. Where’s the sparky / gate opener repair tech?

I bet he won’t be packing an oscilloscope, a can of Pringles (unless he’s hungry) or anything else found in our nerdy imaginations.

Should have a meter and megger in the van and he’ll no doubt have a good look at the consumer unit, possibly find something there. Have good look at that mains cable, check what’s coming out the gate end, and probably find the motor in the gate is on its last legs or the control box has some dodgy relays and needs to be replaced and just doesn’t agree with 204.2 volts (I just plucked that figure) or whatever it’s getting at the gate when it’s trying to push open a sticky gate in winter.

 

[MrBadger]

Ah.. I did see that graph, but thought it not overly useful as a screenshot as you wouldn't be able to run along and see the rising and falling voltage rate.

You'll definitely need your coat.. it's baltic today!

You can disable the other readings and concentrate on voltage which will stretch the voltage axis.

vs

Highlights an 8v voltage drop in early stage of charge quite nicely. In this case, it’s measured at the car within 10m of 6mm armoured + 5m charge cable of a single phase directly off a 3 phase supply via meter and isolator/RCD.

 

[DeejUK]

In this thread I learned that I know significantly less about electricity than I thought I did