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Elon in Texas [speculation - is tesla helping in texas?]

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The issue is: Texas is anti clean energy and blames its problem on the "Green Deal" which it doesn't adopt.

fake news! Texas is the greenest state by MW per state.

https://www.power-technology.com/features/us-wind-energy-by-state/

california only has 1/5 the wind capacity of Texas. you should prioritize attention fixing your dirty climate changing state and not criticize Texas. last time i was in california, about half the windmills were operational! we need a federal law if they have been non operational for 365 days (some reasonable time period) then they have to be removed... can't just leave them as abandoned property.
 
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The 36-hour graph still shows solar (blue line) still works starting around 8AM on 2/15 and again, next morning on 2/16.

The straight horizontal black line is what ERCOT expects total Wind and Solar (yellow line) can provide and the yellow line does do that most of the time except for 5 hours from 19:00 to 24:00 (7PM to 12AM). Batteries could have taken over in this case for those 5 hours.


ERCOT.JPG


Wind - ERCOT finds that frozen wind turbines were the least significant factor in Texas blackouts - Renewable Energy Magazine, at the heart of clean energy journalism

Wind could have performed better if they were equipped with heated blades.

texas has over 25Gw of wind, expect capacity was only 7% of ratted capacity! that is poor output

we need to figure out a way to store renewable energy, perhaps flow batteries or hydrogen production. but this event will perhaps make texas pass legislation allowing distributed energy production. which will help pay for my 8 powerwalls.
 
texas has over 25Gw of wind, expect capacity was only 7% of ratted capacity! that is poor output

we need to figure out a way to store renewable energy, perhaps flow batteries or hydrogen production. but this event will perhaps make texas pass legislation allowing distributed energy production. which will help pay for my 8 powerwalls.
And why do you need 8 PW's again?
 
texas has over 25Gw of wind, expect capacity was only 7% of ratted capacity! that is poor output

we need to figure out a way to store renewable energy, perhaps flow batteries or hydrogen production. but this event will perhaps make texas pass legislation allowing distributed energy production. which will help pay for my 8 powerwalls.

.... and charged from where? You're focusing on the wrong end of the spectrum. A deficit of wind does not indicate the need for storage.... a surplus does. Think about it... if wind isn't meeting demand and you're storing it... you're accomplishing nothing. Grid storage only makes sense when there's MASSIVE curtailment of wind and solar. Why spend $1M to time shift 1GWh of renewables with storage when you can spend $1M to just produce 5GWh more with additional capacity?
 
...fake news!...

Wind is only one among many clean energy sources.

According to the 2016 chart, California is 7th cleanest while Texas is the 32nd cleanest.

800px-Carbon_Intensity_of_Eletricity_by_State.svg.png


According to a 2019 article, California is 7th among cleanest energy production:

7. California

• Electricity from renewables: 47.0% (96.9 million MWh)

• Total electricity generation: 206.1 million MWh (4th highest)

• Largest renewable energy source: Hydroelectric (42.4 million MWh)

• 10 yr. renewable energy growth: 85.7% (22nd lowest)


While Texas is 21st:

21. Texas

• Electricity from renewables: 15.9% (71.9 million MWh)

• Total electricity generation: 452.8 million MWh (the highest)

• Largest renewable energy source: Wind (67.1 million MWh)

• 10 yr. renewable energy growth: 502.5% (7th highest)

Renewable energy: Hyrdo, wind, solar power produced by each state
 
Like that's a bad thing? There is a LOT of clean electricity in the PNW, it cost 11¢/kWh delivered to your house up there. Why wouldn't it be a smart thing to run a GIANT connection to the place in California where a lot of power is being used. TX could make an investment in something like that.

I am not sure where all this Texas pride is coming from at the moment and the "fake news" comment is over the top.
 
This was posted on another forum. It's long, but it's really good explaining what happened.
Nothing I read on this sight made sense, this does.

===========================================================================================

Messing with Texas: The Lone Star State's Power grid is working exactly as designed, by Mark Sumner

The story of Texas’ odd electrical grid goes back to World War II, when FDR’s rural electrification program was pushing out power grids everywhere. That’s when a group of Texas utilities created a system that touched most every part of the state, but barely brushed up against any non-Texan power systems. That was further codified in the 1970s, when the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) took charge and began tinkering with a formula that would “incentivize” electricity providers in Texas to keep up with demand.

What ERCOT created was a system where electrical prices can float based on momentary spikes in demand. Prices can soar to several dollars per kilowatt/hour when the grid is hard pressed, or literally be in negative territory when the demand fails to meet the base level of generation by the system. When consumers in Texas buy electricity, they don’t see these wild swings in their bills. That’s because individual consumers in Texas don’t really buy electricity. They buy a sort of “electricity insurance,” one in which providers contract to provide them power at a fixed or semi-fixed price. That price is, of course, designed to be well above the median cost of power on ERCOT’s self-contained electricity market. Electricity insurance, like medical insurance, creates another level at which there’s an opportunity for profit.

In more modern times, with trades moving just as fast as the electricity comes down the line, the size of the price spikes can be enormous. On Monday, the Houston Chronicle reported that electricity in Texas approached $9,000 per megawatt/hour. At that rate, the average home in the United States would rack up a monthly bill of around $9,600. So … that’s quite high. If any of this—a purposely constrained statewide market, free floating prices subject to wild changes, and consumers left facing blackouts and unpredictable prices—rings a little bell at the back of your head, there’s also this: Enron got its start dabbling in these markets from its Houston, Texas, headquarters in the 1980s.

The reason people in Texas are currently experiencing the collapse of a badly overloaded system, leading to extended outages lasting for hours, is simply because that’s the way the system is designed to work. The incentive in Texas is to provide for exactly as much power as is needed, and not one hamster-wheel-driven watt more. Because in a system that never reached 100% of capacity, power would always be cheap. It’s fighting over the difference between 99.9% demand and 100.1% demand that drives the system and generates profits.

So how did wind come into it? That’s also because of profits. Texas doesn’t have over 10,700 wind turbines generating power for its grid because rural Texans decided they liked the look, or because there was a sudden inspiration to “go green.” Texas has wind power because wind power is so insanely cheap. It’s so cheap that producing power from wind turbines is less than the cost of operating a coal-fired power plant. That’s not the cost of building the plant. Someone could build coal plants for free, hand them over to the utilities, and just running them would still cost more than going out and buying the wind turbines to replace them.

Texas has wind power, because in a market highly incentivized to find the cheapest solution, wind power came out on top. With the rapidly falling prices, solar is also starting to form a bigger part of the picture in Texas, but for the moment the other big player in that state is the same as it is in most states—natural gas.

The introduction of fracking led to a burst (pun intended) of gas on the market. Previously, more limited supplies of natural gas, and the speed with which producing fields played out, created a price for gas that swing through long oscillations, falling far below, then rising above, the price of its main competitor at the time, coal. But with fracking, gas was suddenly abundant and cheap. Building natural gas power plants is also relatively cheap. Unlike coal plants, which for a number of reasons work best when absolutely enormous (and carrying a price tag that’s, at least, several hundred million), natural gas power can start small and grow. The incremental nature of gas power, and the high efficiency of combined cycle production, saw gas displace coal across the nation with a rapidity that shocked most energy experts—and bankrupted coal producers.

What Texas has now is a system that’s composed of gas, wind, a lingering set of older coal plants, and a modest amount of nuclear. All of it just enough to provide power when Texas hits those hot summer days when every AC in Dallas goes to “high cool.”

So, what went wrong on Monday? It wasn’t “frozen turbines,” no, again, wind is more than keeping up with its share of the projected load. Yes, there are certainly some turbines out—but with over 10,000 of the things, there are always some out. This also doesn’t seem like a great day to climb a 300’ tower to work on something in a high wind because … brrrr. But that’s not the issue.

Part of the issue comes down to that other item at the top of Texas’ power mix—natural gas. In cold weather, natural gas is in demand because it can be used directly for home heating. That’s driving up not just the price of gas, but also limiting its availability. That’s because the system of pipelines that carry the gas around is also built to match a certain level of demand. Pipelines are expensive. Companies don’t build them “just in case.” High prices and limited availability mean that Texas gas plants are underperforming.

It appears that coal plants are doing the same. It’s not clear exactly why that would be. (Though, as someone who spent 30+ years in the industry, I have some suspicions, starting with this: Did Texas utilities pay the extra fee that coal companies want to treat the coal with antifreeze so that it comes out of train cars more readily in extreme weather? I think not.)

But the biggest thing wrong with the electrical system in Texas is there’s simply not enough of it. The way the system was designed placed all the incentives at finding the ragged edge of consumption and staying there. As demand has increased, more capacity has been added, but only enough to keep things at that ragged edge. Because that’s the most profitable point for everyone in this pocket-market and insurance scheme. Make too much power, and you end up with stories like this one from 2015, where energy prices in Texas were negative for hours.

The ragged edge is usually found in the summertime, when the outside in Texas is 100 and every Texan wants the inside temperature to be 70. So the system is designed to overcome that 30 degree difference. Right now, people are trying to make their homes 70, and the temperature is 10. There’s just not enough power out there to make it so. Making it worse is that homes in Texas are generally designed around the idea of keeping heat out, rather than holding it in.

Put it all together, and Texas’ system simply buckled on Monday. Demand far exceeded supply, prices went through the roof, and the grid itself failed to a phenomenal degree as the big-boy equivalent of breakers tripped everywhere. If Texas had robust connections to power grids in other states, it might grab some juice from neighbors that were less battered by the cold wave. But it doesn’t. That was also part of ERCOT’s design.

So what will happen after this cold streak is past? Probably not much. Producers could add additional capacity—and if they do, that capacity will almost certainly come in the form of the wind power that’s still, by far, the cheapest. But don’t expect much. Because if they power too quickly, then there will be plenty of electricity next summer when those ACs go on. And where’s the profit in that?
 
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This was posted on another forum. It's long, but it's really good explaining what happened.
Nothing I read on this sight made sense, this does.

===========================================================================================

Messing with Texas: The Lone Star State's Power grid is working exactly as designed, by Mark Sumner

The story of Texas’ odd electrical grid goes back to World War II, when FDR’s rural electrification program was pushing out power grids everywhere. That’s when a group of Texas utilities created a system that touched most every part of the state, but barely brushed up against any non-Texan power systems. That was further codified in the 1970s, when the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) took charge and began tinkering with a formula that would “incentivize” electricity providers in Texas to keep up with demand.

What ERCOT created was a system where electrical prices can float based on momentary spikes in demand. Prices can soar to several dollars per kilowatt/hour when the grid is hard pressed, or literally be in negative territory when the demand fails to meet the base level of generation by the system. When consumers in Texas buy electricity, they don’t see these wild swings in their bills. That’s because individual consumers in Texas don’t really buy electricity. They buy a sort of “electricity insurance,” one in which providers contract to provide them power at a fixed or semi-fixed price. That price is, of course, designed to be well above the median cost of power on ERCOT’s self-contained electricity market. Electricity insurance, like medical insurance, creates another level at which there’s an opportunity for profit.

In more modern times, with trades moving just as fast as the electricity comes down the line, the size of the price spikes can be enormous. On Monday, the Houston Chronicle reported that electricity in Texas approached $9,000 per megawatt/hour. At that rate, the average home in the United States would rack up a monthly bill of around $9,600. So … that’s quite high. If any of this—a purposely constrained statewide market, free floating prices subject to wild changes, and consumers left facing blackouts and unpredictable prices—rings a little bell at the back of your head, there’s also this: Enron got its start dabbling in these markets from its Houston, Texas, headquarters in the 1980s.

The reason people in Texas are currently experiencing the collapse of a badly overloaded system, leading to extended outages lasting for hours, is simply because that’s the way the system is designed to work. The incentive in Texas is to provide for exactly as much power as is needed, and not one hamster-wheel-driven watt more. Because in a system that never reached 100% of capacity, power would always be cheap. It’s fighting over the difference between 99.9% demand and 100.1% demand that drives the system and generates profits.

So how did wind come into it? That’s also because of profits. Texas doesn’t have over 10,700 wind turbines generating power for its grid because rural Texans decided they liked the look, or because there was a sudden inspiration to “go green.” Texas has wind power because wind power is so insanely cheap. It’s so cheap that producing power from wind turbines is less than the cost of operating a coal-fired power plant. That’s not the cost of building the plant. Someone could build coal plants for free, hand them over to the utilities, and just running them would still cost more than going out and buying the wind turbines to replace them.

Texas has wind power, because in a market highly incentivized to find the cheapest solution, wind power came out on top. With the rapidly falling prices, solar is also starting to form a bigger part of the picture in Texas, but for the moment the other big player in that state is the same as it is in most states—natural gas.

The introduction of fracking led to a burst (pun intended) of gas on the market. Previously, more limited supplies of natural gas, and the speed with which producing fields played out, created a price for gas that swing through long oscillations, falling far below, then rising above, the price of its main competitor at the time, coal. But with fracking, gas was suddenly abundant and cheap. Building natural gas power plants is also relatively cheap. Unlike coal plants, which for a number of reasons work best when absolutely enormous (and carrying a price tag that’s, at least, several hundred million), natural gas power can start small and grow. The incremental nature of gas power, and the high efficiency of combined cycle production, saw gas displace coal across the nation with a rapidity that shocked most energy experts—and bankrupted coal producers.

What Texas has now is a system that’s composed of gas, wind, a lingering set of older coal plants, and a modest amount of nuclear. All of it just enough to provide power when Texas hits those hot summer days when every AC in Dallas goes to “high cool.”

So, what went wrong on Monday? It wasn’t “frozen turbines,” no, again, wind is more than keeping up with its share of the projected load. Yes, there are certainly some turbines out—but with over 10,000 of the things, there are always some out. This also doesn’t seem like a great day to climb a 300’ tower to work on something in a high wind because … brrrr. But that’s not the issue.

Part of the issue comes down to that other item at the top of Texas’ power mix—natural gas. In cold weather, natural gas is in demand because it can be used directly for home heating. That’s driving up not just the price of gas, but also limiting its availability. That’s because the system of pipelines that carry the gas around is also built to match a certain level of demand. Pipelines are expensive. Companies don’t build them “just in case.” High prices and limited availability mean that Texas gas plants are underperforming.

It appears that coal plants are doing the same. It’s not clear exactly why that would be. (Though, as someone who spent 30+ years in the industry, I have some suspicions, starting with this: Did Texas utilities pay the extra fee that coal companies want to treat the coal with antifreeze so that it comes out of train cars more readily in extreme weather? I think not.)

But the biggest thing wrong with the electrical system in Texas is there’s simply not enough of it. The way the system was designed placed all the incentives at finding the ragged edge of consumption and staying there. As demand has increased, more capacity has been added, but only enough to keep things at that ragged edge. Because that’s the most profitable point for everyone in this pocket-market and insurance scheme. Make too much power, and you end up with stories like this one from 2015, where energy prices in Texas were negative for hours.

The ragged edge is usually found in the summertime, when the outside in Texas is 100 and every Texan wants the inside temperature to be 70. So the system is designed to overcome that 30 degree difference. Right now, people are trying to make their homes 70, and the temperature is 10. There’s just not enough power out there to make it so. Making it worse is that homes in Texas are generally designed around the idea of keeping heat out, rather than holding it in.

Put it all together, and Texas’ system simply buckled on Monday. Demand far exceeded supply, prices went through the roof, and the grid itself failed to a phenomenal degree as the big-boy equivalent of breakers tripped everywhere. If Texas had robust connections to power grids in other states, it might grab some juice from neighbors that were less battered by the cold wave. But it doesn’t. That was also part of ERCOT’s design.

So what will happen after this cold streak is past? Probably not much. Producers could add additional capacity—and if they do, that capacity will almost certainly come in the form of the wind power that’s still, by far, the cheapest. But don’t expect much. Because if they power too quickly, then there will be plenty of electricity next summer when those ACs go on. And where’s the profit in that?

seems to be from here: Messing with Texas: The Lone Star state’s power grid is working exactly as designed
 
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fake news! Texas is the greenest state by MW per state.

https://www.power-technology.com/features/us-wind-energy-by-state/

california only has 1/5 the wind capacity of Texas. you should prioritize attention fixing your dirty climate changing state and not criticize Texas. last time i was in california, about half the windmills were operational! we need a federal law if they have been non operational for 365 days (some reasonable time period) then they have to be removed... can't just leave them as abandoned property.

Your reply reminds me of bill Maher’s show where he shows the number of days it’s been for California to turn his solar on. :)....
don’t get me wrong texas has plenty to fix and it is enraging to see leaders try to make energy political in the midst of a crisis.... I’m most annoyed with how those leaders were finding out what happened along with the rest of us... seems to me that if I were in office, I’d make energy, water and sanitation my obsession.... any of those go wrong, you’re in trouble
 
fake news! Texas is the greenest state by MW per state.

https://www.power-technology.com/features/us-wind-energy-by-state/

california only has 1/5 the wind capacity of Texas. you should prioritize attention fixing your dirty climate changing state and not criticize Texas. last time i was in california, about half the windmills were operational! we need a federal law if they have been non operational for 365 days (some reasonable time period) then they have to be removed... can't just leave them as abandoned property.

You're assuming Wind is the only green energy. Texas has had huge gains in wind recently but it's not the leader, but is up there on top producers. This is the most recent stats I could find. Texas could overtake Calif at the rate it has added wind.

Top 10 States For Renewable Energy, & Their Renewable Energy Splits
 
...And where’s the profit in that?

Price gouging is very profitable especially in a disaster when utility companies don't winterize their production which causes a decrease in production while the demand spikes up.

The deregulation is configured so that there's no profit motive in preventing a disaster. If they can prevent a disaster and their natural gas wells don't freeze up, and they can keep up the energy production for the demand, then it's not a very good rationale for a price-gouging in a perfectly functional system.

In cases like this, we need companies to use their moral principle and not profit principle.

The purpose of these utilities is to service their customers. And to please their customers, they need to produce reliability at an affordable price.

However, reliability means no disaster and affordability means no price gouging which means that's a direct conflict with making the quick buck as fast as possible.

So what if companies refuse moral principles and only focus on profit principles at all costs?

That where "regulation" comes in.

Regulation may not reshape morality but prohibit lynch does cut down on lynching and prohibit bank-robbing does cut bank-robbing down too.

That's the same for Texas. It's time for the regulation to take over:

1) Winterize
2) Minimum reserve (extra natural gas tanks at electric plants in case the natural gas pressure is down, extra battery storage/solar at water plants in case the grid is down...)
 
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Price gouging is very profitable especially in a disaster when utility companies don't winterize their production which causes a decrease in production while the demand spikes up.

The deregulation is configured so that there's no profit motive in preventing a disaster. If they can prevent a disaster and their natural gas wells don't freeze up, and they can keep up the energy production for the demand, then it's not a very good rationale for a price-gouging in a perfectly functional system.

In cases like this, we need companies to use their moral principle and not profit principle.

The purpose of these utilities is to service their customers. And to please their customers, they need to produce reliability at an affordable price.

However, reliability means no disaster and affordability means no price gouging which means that's a direct conflict with making the quick buck as fast as possible.

So what if companies refuse moral principles and only focus on profit principles at all costs?

That where "regulation" comes in.

Regulation may not reshape morality but prohibit lynch does cut down on lynching and prohibit bank-robbing does cut bank-robbing down too.

That's the same for Texas. It's time for the regulation to take over:

1) Winterize
2) Minimum reserve (extra natural gas tanks at electric plants in case the natural gas pressure is down, extra battery storage/solar at water plants in case the grid is down...)
And what percentage of cost increases are folks in texas willing to pay for this regulation?
 
And what percentage of cost increases are folks in texas willing to pay for this regulation?

I think it’s more of a deregulated system. Basically free market supply and demand. It’s worked for them fine for long time. But it backfired when things went way out of norms.

Unless you mean new regulation?

My guess is they will just patch up the weak spots vulnerable to cold weather and keep everything as it was. They didn’t do anything when they were forced into rolling blackouts in heatwaves.
 
And what percentage of cost increases are folks in texas willing to pay for this regulation?

Huge cost for utility infrastructure is barely noticeable by paying customers as the cost is spread over many years.

The cost of PG&E nuclear decommissioning in California is about $3.9 billion, and the bill for customers is about 59 cents monthly or $7.08 yearly.

New Yorkers are paying $7.6 billion to subsidize nuclear plants and its annual residential bill is $30.
 
And what percentage of cost increases are folks in texas willing to pay for this regulation?

..... what cost increase should insurance companies and FEMA be willing to pay for the LACK of regulation? It's not like any money was saved. Instead of spending millions of winterization they're going to be spending billions on repairs.