ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
Keep your head in the sand as much as you like, but the PRC is not our friend.
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Elon Musk
- Thread starter graham
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I didn’t say they were? The post I was responding to was asking who would be on Russias side in a world war…
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Elon Musk suggests making Taiwan a ‘special administrative zone’ similar to Hong Kong
Billionaire recommends in interview that Taipei let Beijing control some of the island and believes conflict over Taiwan is inevitable
www.theguardian.com
Musk also said China had sought assurances that he would not offer the Starlink internet service of his SpaceX rocket company there. He said Beijing had made clear its disapproval of his recent rollout of Starlink in Ukraine to help the military circumvent Russia’s cut-off of the internet.
Hong Kong: five teenagers sentenced in first security case involving minors
Group, some as young as 15 at time of alleged offence, detained for up to three years for ‘inciting others to subvert state power’
www.theguardian.com
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
This is essentially the same suggestion he made on the Ukraine matter recently. Basically give up to authoritarianism to supposedly avoid war. That didn't work out well previously and is unlikely to work out well here either.Elon Musk suggests making Taiwan a ‘special administrative zone’ similar to Hong Kong
Billionaire recommends in interview that Taipei let Beijing control some of the island and believes conflict over Taiwan is inevitable
Musk also said China had sought assurances that he would not offer the Starlink internet service of his SpaceX rocket company there. He said Beijing had made clear its disapproval of his recent rollout of Starlink in Ukraine to help the military circumvent Russia’s cut-off of the internet.
Hong Kong: five teenagers sentenced in first security case involving minors
Group, some as young as 15 at time of alleged offence, detained for up to three years for ‘inciting others to subvert state power’
He certainly burned bridges with Taiwan (his comments are all over the media) and it is not lost on them his business dealings in China. Comes across as another selfish businessman poking his nose into matters he should stay out of.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Clearly responding to his business interests but clueless to politics.
I can't wait to see his peace plan for Korea.
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
Well I like South Korea. But I also like not having ww3. So in the interest of peace south Korea should just surrender to North Korea. We should probably throw in part of Japan as well so as to not antagonize the dear leader.
Max Tegmark agrees with Elon Musk and put some numbers on the problem:
Not that I agree with his estimate (or Elon's proposal), but this shows Elon's thinking is far from "a fantasy divorced from reality". It's perfectly fine to disagree with him, since nobody knows what's going to happen next, anybody claiming they know for certain the best way to end the war is just plain kidding themselves. At least Elon Musk admits it's not always clear what's the best way forward, unlike some armchair generals in this thread....
Isn't it ironic that people in this thread criticize Elon Musk for getting out of his lane and dare to discuss international politics, yet they themselves are doing the exact same thing by giving different proposals to end the war? Can't have it both ways guys.
Not that I agree with his estimate (or Elon's proposal), but this shows Elon's thinking is far from "a fantasy divorced from reality". It's perfectly fine to disagree with him, since nobody knows what's going to happen next, anybody claiming they know for certain the best way to end the war is just plain kidding themselves. At least Elon Musk admits it's not always clear what's the best way forward, unlike some armchair generals in this thread....
Isn't it ironic that people in this thread criticize Elon Musk for getting out of his lane and dare to discuss international politics, yet they themselves are doing the exact same thing by giving different proposals to end the war? Can't have it both ways guys.
Musk is so out of touch with societal issues it's not even funny.
He invites Kanye to Twitter and then same-day Kanye makes an anti semitic tweet.
Genius Elon. /S
He invites Kanye to Twitter and then same-day Kanye makes an anti semitic tweet.
Genius Elon. /S
For most of the first 140 years of the US, it was mostly isolationist, getting involved in some international scrapes, but mostly keeping to itself. World War I was a change, the US got involved in European affairs. As the 19th century closed the US overtook the UK as the world's largest economy. By the end of the war, the US was the largest and the trend line was dramatically upward.
Because of the way the US was treated by the French and British after the war, it went back to isolationism. The lack of US leadership between the wars was a vacuum that allowed the world to spin out of control. The British and French to their discredit didn't want to let the US into the club because they were just colonial upstarts, but the US was really the dominant world power by 1918 by a pretty large margin. By 1940 the US had 50% of the entire planet's manufacturing capacity.
After the war, the US decided it was now thrust into the role as dominant world power and did what they could with it. Some things are not very honorable, but the US has forced a new order on the world from before the war. Most of the world agrees with this part of it: wars of conquest are out. A country growing its borders by conquest of their neighbors is now shunned by the world.
When someone violates that order, it falls on the dominant world power to enforce the rules. That happened in 1991 when the US went to war in Kuwait to end the Iraqi occupation. It's more often done through sanctions, or giving aid to the side that has been wronged. The US did it for Ukraine after 2014 by training Ukrainian troops, putting sanctions on Russia, and building a support network with Ukraine.
The sanctions did real harm to the Russian economy. In 2013 Russia was the #8 economy in the world. By 2019 it had dropped to #11. It's going to drop further this year.
Leaders like Nevil Chamberlain tried to strike a deal with Hitler, but it failed spectacularly. The lesson many people took away from that is never negotiate with a dictator, which history shows is not a valid lesson. A dictator who is out for limited gains, throwing them a bone will usually shut them up. But a megalomaniacal dictator can't be satiated. They will take today's win and then go for something else tomorrow.
Putin has become a megalomaniac, and there are a few people worse than him waiting in the wings. If Putin or his replacement are serious about using nuclear weapons, they will get used eventually, throwing him a bone today just teaches him (and those who would want to replace him) that threatening nuclear war works, so they will use it more until they reestablish their old empire (goodbye Alaska, as well as half of Europe), or they will get to a point where somebody needs to stand up to them and things will turn nuclear.
There is no good solution. Though the best of a bad hand is to be tough with Russia now and hope they are too chicken to find out what happens if they release the nuclear genie. It is in the best interest of everyone in the nuclear club to want to make sure the entire world is going to shun anyone who gets nuclear over a spat. Especially India and Pakistan who threaten to use them on one another. If those countries knew the rest of the world would universally shun them for using nukes, they would be much less likely to do it.
Backing down to the threats now just sets a bad precedent and will not end the problem, it will likely just escalate it.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
It is divorced from reality because he misunderstands the history, doesn't understand the obvious problems with his proposed "elections", and doesn't take into account the simple reality that Putin cannot be trusted to stick to any agreement. Pretty much the definition of "a fantasy divorced from reality". Not to mention the obvious negative backlash from putting out something so completely stupid.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
All BS, he reads a lot of history, he even did a podcast about history and war. Of course there're problems with his proposal, there're problems with every proposal, if a proposal doesn't have problems we'd be implement it by now. If you don't trust Putin to honor any agreement, then the only way left is to fight him to the death, which even Biden is not ready to do, it is you who's detached from reality when your proposal is not even supported by the sitting US democrat president. And his proposal only sounds stupid to idiots who hate him, as I showed again and again, there're credible people supporting his ideas, be it for Ukraine or for anything else that haters want to dunk him on.
What a just? That’s all the matters. If you concede now all you really do is push doomsday down the corner. Let’s end it all now.
Lol.
Brazil ? They are pro Western and sell airplanes to us as well as agriculture
India ? They like Putin for cheap oil and weapons tops
China ? They need the US as marketplace to keep factory jobs going
South Africa ? Lol
You don’t understand that BRICS isn’t referring to alignment on geopolitical interests and also is outdated 1990s concept
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Doesn't mean he got this one right, obviously. Nothing about his proposal was realistic in the least. It's pretty obvious the Ukrainians won't agree to it so it's a non starter, end of story.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
Intelligence: Probability of Russia striking Ukraine with tactical nuclear weapons is ‘very high'.
“They will likely target places along the frontlines with lots of personnel and equipment, key command centers, and critical infrastructure,” Vadym Skibitsky, a deputy head of Ukraine's military intelligence, told The Guardian. “In order to stop them, we need not just more anti-aircraft systems...
kyivindependent.com
"But Putin wouldn't dare to use nukes" I hear the armchair generals in this thread say, yet Ukrainian military themselves say the probability of a nuclear strike is "very high". Who's clinging to "a fantasy divorced from reality"?
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