ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
The way he speaks on it you would think he believes in the creation mandate. Maybe he does? He certainly practices it!
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Tesla's Supercharger Team was recently laid off. We discuss what this means for the company on today's TMC Podcast streaming live at 1PM PDT. You can watch on X or on YouTube where you can participate in the live chat.
Elon Musk
- Thread starter graham
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Birth rates have been plummeting for years (especially in North America, Europe and China). We need a sustainable birth rate of future tax payers to pay the enormous government liabilities we have accrued over the years. Otherwise, our society is going to go through a great deal of economic and social pain in the very near future.
Once you go into a birth death spiral, it is very difficult to dig out - and it happens very quickly.
The future belongs to those who bother to show up.
Nolakai
Member
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Birth rates need to "plummet", the world population is still increasing and still on track to hit 10 billion. We will not be seeing any significant population drop in the very near future. What we need are sustainable policies, starting with the removal of the $160K Social Security tax cap for example.
It's already happening and will only accelerate based on the simple math of massively declining birth rates. Careful what we wish for.
The EU population is already declining. The war in Ukraine will likely make it worse.
EU population continues to decrease for a second year
On the occasion of World Population Day, we take the opportunity to highlight the data published today on EU population. After a first decline in population growth in 2020 due to the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic, the EU’s population decreased again in 2021, from 447 million on 1 January 2021...
ec.europa.eu
Even China's population is decreasing.
America's population is basically flat, mostly augmented by immigration.
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
Despite what you and Elon Musk say, the population of Europe and NA will continue to decline unless immigration increases. But what do you suggest as an alternative? People of childbearing age are having less children by choice. My wife and I have three kids. My SIL has three and my BIL has three. Of those 9 children, there are 5 grandchildren. It doesn't look like there will be any more in the future. That's the trend. Children are expensive to raise and unless Elon has thought of some profound incentive, that isn't going to change.It's already happening and will only accelerate based on the simple math of massively declining birth rates. Careful what we wish for.
The EU population is already declining. The war in Ukraine will likely make it worse.
EU population continues to decrease for a second year
On the occasion of World Population Day, we take the opportunity to highlight the data published today on EU population. After a first decline in population growth in 2020 due to the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic, the EU’s population decreased again in 2021, from 447 million on 1 January 2021...
Even China's population is decreasing.
America's population is basically flat, mostly augmented by immigration.
If paying enormous govt liabilities is your primary concern with a declining birth rate, you are focused 100% on the wrong problem.
Yes, a shifting demographic to older people will change the way the economy and "capitalism" currently work. But significant changes are already necessary.
Never mind that in your own chart, the birth rate appears to be leveling out.
You're going to need to provide some references for this. But then again, see my previous counter. I don't think this is a significant issue compared to the other issues that the current population current put on Earth.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
World population is increasing as is the US population. Local birth rate trends are not the issue.
World Population Clock: 8 Billion People (LIVE, 2023) - Worldometer
How many people are there in the world? World population has reached 8 billion on November 15, 2022 according to the United Nations. World population live counter with data sheets, graphs, maps, and census data regarding the current, historical, and future world population figures, estimates...
www.worldometers.info
United States Population (2024) - Worldometer
Population of the United States: current, historical, and projected population, growth rate, immigration, median age, total fertility rate (TFR), population density, urbanization, urban population, country's share of world population, and global rank. Data tables, maps, charts, and live...
www.worldometers.info
A population decline is economically rough for a generation or so, but it is very much better for the society once the population balances out. A good example of this is Japan which went into economic doldrums in the early 1990s because the working population was small compared to the retired population. They are beginning to come out of that now.
China is facing a steeper decline because the difference between the young and older generations is larger than Japan's gap.
Not facing the decline and surfing the population decline is like dying from cancer because you're too afraid of the surgery.
I have been convinced for some time that the Earth has been over its human long term carrying capacity for a few decades. A leveling off of the population is a good first step, but the world population does need to decline if the human race is going to be able to live within its means.
Hans Rosling in one of his longer videos pointed out that the birth rate drops to close to 2 children per women when child mortality rates drop. If parents believe there is a very good chance their kids will grow up to adulthood, they stop at two kids on average.
It wasn't a choice in China with their "one child policy". Now the Chinese government is doing the exact opposite and establishing programs to encourage larger families.
Government policy and our culture impacts how people live our lives.
I just don't think over-population is a problem.
Sorry - it is important to me that we can fund our safety-net and take care of the enormous amount of liabilities promised to our seniors and folks on disability and not cause societal breakdown. It is simply harder to do when the ratio of workers to beneficiaries shrinks.
For the long term survival of human civilization we have to take the relative short term hit and deal with the economic hit for a generation or so.
Like I said above, it's like dying from cancer because you don't want to go through the pain of the surgery.
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
I don't recall mentioning China. You still didn't tell me about your plan to increase the birthrate in NA and Europe. Or Elon's plan, if he actually has one.
trayloader
Member
Nothingburger like the wokism stance. Creating gaslighting and fatalist projections to blur the lines. A fogbomb.Elon still freaking out about "population collapse". Apparently completely unaware that population growth has caused the problems that Tesla is supposed to be about solving, along with all the other huge impacts still without solutions caused by humans.
Elon Musk Warns of 'Massive Danger' Looming Over the World - TheStreet
China's recent announcement has the global CEO gravely concerned.www.thestreet.com
6 Billion people brought us to where we are ATM. +2°C and glaciers evaporating.
Let us not discuss this here, otherwise we play by his textbook. Instead laser focus on his real actions.
He´s under immense stress, since the Saudis refuse to bend over (420 secured case).
His chances of success are less than 30% IMHO, so his fortune is at stake. And ours
Oh and I lured the serial downvoter. Chapeau. Touché
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For starters - our elites in our culture and government could stop freaking out about overpopulation and stigmatizing "breeders" for having a family claiming we are doing environmental harm. The fact that Paul Ehrlic is still a respectable academic after being being proved so amazingly wrong over the last half century is a prime example.
I'd wager that the majority of Americans have no clue that most Western nations (including China) now have declining populations.
Our government (as China is doing now) could help incentivize family formation and child rearing with programs to assist families and communities raise and educate children.
Immigration will certainly play a major part too, but it can't be the only lever our government pulls.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Government need do nothing since there is no problem. Population is still growing in the US and projected to continue in the near term. Population decline would actually help in many areas struggling to meet the needs of current populations which have grown too fast.
Agree - there is no overpopulation issues in Western nations.
It's the 3rd world that are still very poor and lack the technology and infrastructure to support their populations.
Other than making birth control and sex-education readily available, I really don't want ANY government doing anything to try and limit human procreation. It's a VERY slippery slope as China has already shown the world.
People are trying to get to Europe and the US illegally ultimately because of over population in the global south. Most of the refugees are coming from countries with the most internal turmoil, but a lot of that turmoil is caused by overpopulation. The world's jungles are disappearing and the oceans are getting overfished because all those extra mouths need somewhere to live and something to eat. The bulk of the plastic pollution in the oceans is coming from Asia and Africa. The plastic straw you get from a fast food restaurant in the US or Europe is going into a landfill when you're done with it. Landfills are another problem, but much less of one than the places where most trash ends up in the oceans.
Reducing the use of plastics and reducing excess packaging in the developed world does slow down the landfills getting filled up, but that's about it. It has no impact on the environment other than that. Except for the very few items that don't end up in the trash and end up somewhere its not supposed to be. The boat is filling with water, the people with buckets are just sitting there watching it happen while the people with spoons are frantically trying to bail out the boat rather than try getting the people with buckets to do something.
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
Yes! The wealthy need to give up their private jets, palatial homes, and titanic sized yachts!
Totally agree and it’s only fair.
The global environment is like a neighborhood where our neighbors' houses are on fire. They can't afford to pay someone to come and put out the fire, and we won't pay for it because it's not our house. But if we don't contribute to the effort to put out the fire in their houses it's going to spread to ours. It IS spreading to ours. Bigger storms, worse droughts and the accompanying wildfires, rising sea levels. And we're still not willing to help our neighbors.
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