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Elon tweets "pure vision" will solve phantom braking
- Thread starter diplomat33
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mikes_fsd
Banned
Based on the ~14k+ cars that are reported to TeslaFi - software updates seem to rollout out regularly, so what are you basing your comment on? Unless you just want to be overly dramatic....
rxlawdude
Active Member
Whoa whoa whoa!!!
"All new Model S and Model X, as well as all vehicles built for markets outside of North America, will continue to be equipped with radar and will have radar-supported Autopilot functionality until we determine the appropriate time to transition those vehicles to Tesla Vision."
So Tesla Vision is only available for cars WITHOUT radar, while those with all the same hardware PLUS radar will have to wait to get "Tesla Vision?"
Logically, this makes zero sense. Unless there are other changes to vehicle optics or processing in the "Tesla Vision" equipped vehicles.
I will join the mighty pissed procession here if it looks like our FSD paid cars become bastard stepchildren to Tesla. It strongly implies we will NOT see FSD on streets for a long while if we have a vehicle built before May '21, because non-vision FSD for city streets has apparently been abandoned.
Not a good look, Tesla.
"All new Model S and Model X, as well as all vehicles built for markets outside of North America, will continue to be equipped with radar and will have radar-supported Autopilot functionality until we determine the appropriate time to transition those vehicles to Tesla Vision."
So Tesla Vision is only available for cars WITHOUT radar, while those with all the same hardware PLUS radar will have to wait to get "Tesla Vision?"
Logically, this makes zero sense. Unless there are other changes to vehicle optics or processing in the "Tesla Vision" equipped vehicles.
I will join the mighty pissed procession here if it looks like our FSD paid cars become bastard stepchildren to Tesla. It strongly implies we will NOT see FSD on streets for a long while if we have a vehicle built before May '21, because non-vision FSD for city streets has apparently been abandoned.
Not a good look, Tesla.
Maybe you are missing the restrictions applied to Tesla Vision vehicles that aren't applied to radar equipped ones:
It sounds like once they get Tesla Vision to feature parity with radar supported Autopilot that they will transition all of the vehicles over time. (Probably some regulator approvals necessary for some regions.)
rxlawdude
Active Member
Understood about the restrictions. But we are restricted from city street FSD. It's inexplicable why vision-only would not be deployed to earlier builds, unless there is something different about the cameras and/or processing that is also new in the post-May builds.
I don't think this is correct either. The only time my AP1 S had a phantom braking event, there wasn't any overpass anywhere in sight. The sun was low and light was weird...
To be honest, ditching radar seems like a very poor decision. I just can't imagine how they will achieve everything they want with vision only.
Well, the rumor is that FSD is going to $14K, so the people that paid the most should get it first, given Tesla's contract doesn't require it to be given to anyone
Everything about this looks like they are having trouble getting enough radar units for the 3/Y, so they're just ditching them and hoping they can make it work. It's the most logical reason they are leaving it on the S/X- Premium buyers get the premium product, and of course they aren't really building the S/X right now so no reason to freak those buyers out as they're not going to get a car this quarter anyway.
As someone else said: "Tell me you are having supply chain issues with radar units without telling me you are having supply chain issues with radar units..."
Radar was always part of the base features of the car. Things like AEB relied on it, and for the last years, basic AP used it (especially given nobody had any FSD features). So no reason to think that because Tesla is spending $100 less on the 3/Y that FSD will get cheaper there or the S/X will go up even when their config didn't change at all. Plus, they very well may remove the radar from the S/X before they start making them again and they're just softening this announcement.
However, The rumor is that FSD is going to $14K for everyone so Tesla is really doubling down on this announcement.
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Based on this Electrek article, new 3/Y's (not S/X?) will have limitations (max speed 75 mph, increased following distance, no summons) due to a lack of radar initially. Don't see how that aligns with an increase to 14k for FSD.
electrek.co
Tesla announces transition to 'Tesla Vision' without radar, warns of limitations at first
Tesla today announced the official transition to “Tesla Vision” without radar on Model 3 and Model Y. In the process,...
electrek.co
Question:
For those that were very supportive of Tesla's vision only path which was supposed to ship to all cars last week, and saying it must be well tested and verified for them to make this change, and that Tesla focuses on safety above and beyond all...
What do you make of the fact that the initial release of vision only cars have reduced features and performance? It seems like Tesla is continuing to use their customers as alpha testers for features that aren't yet fully proven, and in fact have to completely disable some features in order to maintain a level of safety.
For those that were very supportive of Tesla's vision only path which was supposed to ship to all cars last week, and saying it must be well tested and verified for them to make this change, and that Tesla focuses on safety above and beyond all...
What do you make of the fact that the initial release of vision only cars have reduced features and performance? It seems like Tesla is continuing to use their customers as alpha testers for features that aren't yet fully proven, and in fact have to completely disable some features in order to maintain a level of safety.
Tam
Well-Known Member
Yes. It only happens in Tesla that people are willing to pay to be testers!
People have driven a car without radar since the old-time till now so driving without radar doesn't mean "unsafe".
The assumption is they disabled those features (AP > 75 MPH, smart summon, lane departure avoidance) because they were unsafe when used in their current state of development. One of these doesn't even have anyone in the car, the others actively steer the car, so this is not a totally passive feature. It's totally possible to add a feature that isn't safe enough to be released to the public, kind of like FSD city streets beta right now.
As an example, we drove cars for years without airbags. That doesn't mean an airbag which goes off randomly would be considered acceptable (like lane departure avoidance grabbing the wheel when it shouldn't). I'm not saying the cars aren't safe enough to be released without these features, but it seems like Tesla is reducing safety (removing safety enhancing features) and releasing features they are less confident with than the current designs, which appears at odds with the idea that Tesla waits to release things until they are well tested. Given their willingness to push this on every 3/Y customer, it makes me skeptical of how well "pure vision" FSD is actually doing if they haven't yet solved these more simple issues yet are also not willing to let everyone have the FSD beta.
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But what about fog? Surly we have all seen the results of mega-pileups due to fog. If not google "vehicle crash in fog"
Those crashes were like vision only -- eyes.
Those crashes were like vision only -- eyes.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Makes sense if it's regulatory. I imagine they have to recertify all the cars given the AEB/FCW function will function differently without radar, and it may be that the new Model 3/Y was the first to get certification and then they will work their way through the other models.
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