Elon's Model 3 Deception

[Erleichda]

In all fairness, the spacex spaceship controls are almost exactly what is in the Model 3.

 

[alevek]

A lot of you guys are raving about the driving dynamics of a BEV, but people who have the Model S and Bolt say the Bolt's driving is just fine, since it's also a BEV.

No one here doubts that BEVs are superior to ICE for smooth driving.

Since I got my Bolt I don't drive my P85D anymore, have become addicted to Bolt's one pedal drive to full stop. You can't appreciate the precision feel unless you try it.

 

[Waiting4M3]

hence the questions. Not in the market for a 340i. Btw, I don't think you yourself know how the M3's keyless entry works.

Tesla Model 3 ditches fob for keycard and Bluetooth smartphone access

Unlike Tesla’s current keyless entry system that requires drivers to access a sequence of buttons on its mobile app, Model 3 will use a unique bluetooth signal from your phone to unlock the car as you approach it, and start it when you get inside.

serious, 5 minutes of google.

 

[Texas]

I'm a big Elon Musk fan. I even hugged him once in a bar.

But he has said things about the Model 3 that have been deceptive, given last night's event. Let's list some of them. Please contribute if you know of others!

• Model 3 reveal part 2, which is going to be closer to production, will take things to another level:
  • No it didn't. There wasn't anything new. Nothing about Supercharger V3, new EAP capabilities, etc.
• The controls are like a spaceship
  • Not much different than a Model S, except maybe smoother and different interface
• "Oh so little faith" in regards to Model 3 having more range than Bolt
  • Everyone took this to mean at a similar price, the Model 3 would have similar or better range than a Bolt, but it doesn't. The Model S already has better range than a Bolt, but it's more expensive. This is also the case for the Model 3.
• Even a base car at $35,000 will be better than any comparable car in its class
  • Questionable. Sure, the driving dynamics and minimalist design seems amazing. But at 35k, you don't get fog lights, covered center console, ACC?, no leather, basic sound system, no special phone chargers..... a lot of little features missing from other 35k cars.

What a killjoy! Tesla rolls out a beautiful, crisp little rocket that automobile writers love, but it's not good enough for you. Get a life.

 

[powertoold]

What a killjoy! Tesla rolls out a beautiful, crisp little rocket that automobile writers love, but it's not good enough for you. Get a life.

That's not the point of the post. It's about deceptive things Elon said.

 

[Timo]

With all due respect have you done the calculation on the value of your time over the life of the car, applied an hourly value to autopilot driving - and then compared that to the $5K you pay for autopilot? After you do that it looks like a helluva deal on paper.

Also let's be real - $35K + $5K for autopilot = $40K not $50K. Again - I own two fairly loaded Model S's + a bunch of luxury and sports cars. My point of the post was to say that electric drive + autopilot renders other types of "luxury" totally irrelevant (power seats, leather, etc.). The smooth silence of electric motors plus the have-to-experience-it-to-believe-it-fatigue-reduction of autopilot render everything else obsolete. Add in 100+ mpge with almost zero maintenance and the car is an incredible bargain on paper.

The 9-5 worker bee crowd that has been waiting years for this car is just too ignorant to realize it's a bargain (at least, the few who are here b*tching and moaning) - but they'll understand soon enough.

Those of us who own autopilot V1 and V2 know it takes 90% of the effort out of highway commuting. People who have never experienced it are incapable of understanding it. I didn't either before it became a reality for me. This car will blow up virally more than it has already after it gets into the hands of Joe Blow and his buddies get to drive it at the Sunday BBQ. My own girlfriend was in the "autopilot is stupid" camp - after a couple months she gets quite annoyed driving anything she has to steer herself down the freeway. Same for my 72 year old mom.

500,000 reservations ain't nuthin' - the worker bees will buy it by the millions.

"Once the little people realize they can drive and indulge in dessert at the same time, their lives will surely never be the same. Let them drive and eat cake! Let them eat cake I say!!" -Marie Calisnow

 

[mhan00]

Why do you find it strange that others would tick more boxes? Why do you care? Why do some people feel the need to bash others opinion that they would like to get the long range version?

Maybe it's just envy that those will get their cars 1st?

I don't find it strange that people want to get more options, I find it strange that they're acting like everyone is going to want to get more options. People are talking like no one is going to even consider a base battery and/or model and that a 220 mile range is not viable.

 

[mhan00]

A lot of you guys are raving about the driving dynamics of a BEV, but people who have the Model S and Bolt say the Bolt's driving is just fine, since it's also a BEV.

No one here doubts that BEVs are superior to ICE for smooth driving.

Personally I have no issues with the Bolt. I came very close to buying or leasing one, but I decided I didn't want to wait another four or five months for the release and went with a Gen II Volt instead. But imo the 3 looks to be the much better car, even with the base model. The only thing the Bolt has that the Model 3 doesn't that I would want is the parking cameras (something I think Tesla absolutely should implement in their cars ASAP). The extra 18 miles of range is negligible given my daily driving habits (I almost never use gas on my Volt), and on the rare occasions I'd need to go further, the SC network is much more built out and consistent than the fast charge stations the Bolt would rely on. That will hopefully change in the future, but for now the SC network is unmatched.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

But to circle back to your query; no I don't think I'll ever want to drive another car that has an ICE drivetrain. I might not be as passionate about BEVs in the future, sure, but I suspect that's because they will be "normal". Just like a smartphone now. (pick your side). To me an ICE drivetrain is about as fun as a flip phone.

That is not a bad analogy and I understand completely your viewpoint.

I guess for me it is a bit like this: If ICEs are/used to be the flip phone and BEVs are the new smartphone, as in your analogy, then for me ICEs have perhaps morphed more into an analog watch in the meanwhile. I mean, I still check the time mostly from my smartphone, but I can appreciate a nice watch too. The smartphone is still there, but sometimes I can leave it home and just take the watch - and genuinely enjoy that.

I know mine isn't a perfect analogy, but just trying to capture some of the essence of the emotion for me personally. As said, I believe BEVs are transformative and I do believe Tesla will succeed with Model 3. Just exploring the shades of grey.

 

[bhzmark]

I guess I am not getting what the disappointment is. You're getting 215 mile range, 100+mpge, the world's most advanced semiautonomous driving for $40K - before any tax incentives. This isn't a screaming value for these people? This isn't 'mass market'? They're upset the seats are manual and cloth? Wtf lol. Let them keep their Civics if they don't understand value.

most middle class and working class folks do not understand the time value of money

In watching and engaging with (until I remember my own time value and put them on ignore) some of the complainers and whiners on this forum I have come to believe that Tesla should really have a stronger "No soup for you" attitude and screen out buyers who don't get it. As a seller of advanced technology that requires a continuing relationship with the customer you just don't want people who will have illogical expectations and who are impervious to reason. Tesla should have a targeted anti-selling to certain people for all their products. Tesla should actually state that some people will not be able to adopt to their technology and Tesla's implementation of it and those people would be better off buying from Toyota or Cadillac or whatever.

And then that marketing technique and the resultant exclusivity itself will intrigue more of the people who are able to get it and drive more demand from the people who will get it.

 

[cdub]

Model 3 reveal part 2, which is going to be closer to production, will take things to another level:

For the ONE MILLIONTH time... Reveal part 2 was the FSD reveal. Elon said so HIMSELF.

 

[myusername]

Elon is correct - you cannot get a better car for $35K. I own two S's - you cannot buy a betyer sedan for any price - and I say that knowing I do not have coat hooks, that an S Class is quieter at speed etc. The trouble with the Model 3 crowd is they have no point of comparison - they belong to an economic group that can't afford the S and don't understand how the entire package adds up to something sooooooo much more pleasurable to drive than the competition that checking feature boxes is irrelevant.

I've been blessed in life (not a brag, just a fact) - I own more than one six figure Italian exotic and a six figure British grand touring coupe. You know how often I drive them after getting my first Tesla a year ago? Yes I will get around to selling off most of my personal ICE fleet eventually - they're all in storage now.

ZERO. (Okay I lie, the 6-speed 355 spider - my oldest exotic - does see the light of day - it's in a league of its own despite being 22 years old).

My Teslas have rendered these titans of exotic and luxury irrelevant and undesirable to drive.

That may be hard to understand coming from the world of $189 a month Camry leases - but it's true.

The Model 3 has zero competition at $35K.

including itself. ASPs will be in the upper 40s and they'll sell a fraction of the large numbers that have been thrown out over the last year... on top of that... the market for a $50k to $60k M3 is the same market for the MS/MX... who's sales will crumble while people wait for their M3s instead... especially when they add the D and performance packages.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

For the ONE MILLIONTH time... Reveal part 2 was the FSD reveal. Elon said so HIMSELF.

Yeah, so, basically we don't believe that is accurate. We know Elon said it.

The belief is that the reveal part 2 was supposed to include something spaceshippey that did not ship (yet).

 

[JeffK]

Yeah, so, basically we don't believe that is accurate. We know Elon said it.

The belief is that the reveal part 2 was supposed to include something spaceshippey that did not ship (yet).

His first reference to part two was regarding lack of an instrument cluster...
Elon Musk on Twitter
FSD is the one thing that fits perfectly with everything Elon said about part 2

 

[AnxietyRanger]

His first reference to part two was regarding lack of an instrument cluster...
Elon Musk on Twitter
FSD is the one thing that fits perfectly with everything Elon said about part 2

Yes it was. But to me the spaceship controls comment does not fit AP2.

The context of spaceship controls as well as lacking an instrument cluster, on the other hand, fits IMO very well with an augmented reality HUD taking the place of the instrument cluster - indeed the rumor on Model S/X side that a replacement for the current Model S/X instrument cluster screen might be coming in the form of an augmented reality HUD...

 

[JeffK]

Yes it was. But to me the spaceship controls comment does not fit AP2.

The context of spaceship controls as well as lacking an instrument cluster, on the other hand, fits IMO very well with an augmented reality HUD taking the place of the instrument cluster - indeed the rumor on Model S/X side that a replacement for the current Model S/X instrument cluster screen might be coming in the form of an augmented reality HUD...

spaceship comment had nothing to do with part 2.

@HBL_Cosmin Wait until you see the real steering controls and system for the 3. It feels like a spaceship.

yup, no mention of a part 2

 

[myusername]

I guess I am not getting what the disappointment is. You're getting 215 mile range, 100+mpge, the world's most advanced semiautonomous driving for $40K - before any tax incentives. This isn't a screaming value for these people? This isn't 'mass market'? They're upset the seats are manual and cloth? Wtf lol. Let them keep their Civics if they don't understand value.

tax incentives will go away... remove your "world's most advanced semiautonomous driving" and what have you got?... 215 mile range -- the honda civic has a 512 mile range, 100+mpge -- the honda civic gets 42 highway mpg, and for $18k you can get it with manual and cloth seats... to me that looks like they checked the "M3 at $35k" box just as expected. $9k for a battery upgrade?

so now that the ASP is going to be in the upper 40s... the answer is to belittle people that can't afford it... and they should just keep their Honda Civics.

 

[Phillip L]

• Even a base car at $35,000 will be better than any comparable car in its class
  • Questionable. Sure, the driving dynamics and minimalist design seems amazing. But at 35k, you don't get fog lights, covered center console, ACC?, no leather, basic sound system, no special phone chargers..... a lot of little features missing from other 35k cars.

The really telling thing to me is the "But ....". 90% of the joy in an ev is the driving experience. You obviously are not an ev driver because if you were you would realize what the really important thing is exactly "the driving dynamics and the minimalist design seems amazing". I would bet that 90+% of ev owners will never go back to an ice car because of driving dynamics and quietness. You are like the person who is presented with a triple layer cake with icing, and bemoans the fact that there are only two cherries on top instead of four.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

spaceship comment had nothing to do with part 2.

yup, no mention of a part 2

Fair enough, if interpreted as a separate tweet from the other one.

I have interpreted it in the context of the other tweet of that day: Elon Musk on Twitter

We shall see on the spaceship controls. On the history we may never fully know what was intended.

 

[calisnow]

tax incentives will go away... remove your "world's most advanced semiautonomous driving" and what have you got?... 215 mile range -- the honda civic has a 512 mile range, 100+mpge -- the honda civic gets 42 highway mpg, and for $18k you can get it with manual and cloth seats... to me that looks like they checked the "M3 at $35k" box just as expected. $9k for a battery upgrade?

so now that the ASP is going to be in the upper 40s... the answer is to belittle people that can't afford it... and they should just keep their Honda Civics.

LOL - yes well if you don't understand the value of autopilot and how integral it is to Tesla's DNA then yep - enjoy your Civic lol. Teslas are not for you, clearly. Or buy a Bolt or Leaf - also fine cars, no autopilot, and can be cheaper. Nobody is forcing anyone to spend $40K plus on a Model 3. It's a helluva deal at $35K with cloth seats and no autopilot. See ya later - your Honda salesman is waiting.

Honda makes a nice car - we'll be just fine without the folks checking boxes vs Accords.