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EU Signature Angst
- Thread starter Pilotech
- Start date
Volker.Berlin
Member
I cannot be bothered reading every single post in this thread, but here's a detail that Signature reservation holders frequently seem to be missing: You are making a mistake when comparing your delivery date to the (presumed) delivery of the very first production cars. What you get for the extra money is you jumped the queue. How many reservations where there when you reserved and where would you be in the line had you not made a Signature reservation? It's easy to see how the Signature buys you an advantage of a few months.
Now if you reserved in 2009 then of course you'd be not too far from the front of the queue even if you reserved a regular production. Which was exactly the reason why I decided that the Signature is not worth it to me and went with regular. It's everybody's own call to make, obviously.
Now if you reserved in 2009 then of course you'd be not too far from the front of the queue even if you reserved a regular production. Which was exactly the reason why I decided that the Signature is not worth it to me and went with regular. It's everybody's own call to make, obviously.
This is not a reservation holder's mistake. If there's a mistake, it's Tesla's:
Buy or Reserve a Tesla | Tesla Motors
In markets where it's not sold out, the Model S Signature description includes a similar promise.
Volker.Berlin
Member
Yes, of course. They should add "in your respective market" and a lot of other disclaimers and limitations. "Objects in the mirror may be closer than they appear." "Your mileage may vary." "Caution contents may be hot." "Tesla does not sell cars in markets where it does not sell cars. Tesla reserves the right to sell cars in markets where it sells cars. This applies to Signature reservations, too."
That statement is on the Hong Kong site. I have no expectation that Hong Kong signature holders will get their Model S cars before US production. There is an expectation that they will get theirs before HK production.
jackie
Member
So getting an EU Sig is a bumpy ride and doesn't always meet expectations until you get the car and enjoy the air suspension:wink:
I went on the EU Sig wait list and was overjoyed to get a my Sig reservation. I know I am paying over the top and the car is not perfect but still I am very happy to be part of the revolution and if my few extra euros help everyone on the way then I am happy - a little poorer in money terms but far richer in terms that I think are important for us all.
I went on the EU Sig wait list and was overjoyed to get a my Sig reservation. I know I am paying over the top and the car is not perfect but still I am very happy to be part of the revolution and if my few extra euros help everyone on the way then I am happy - a little poorer in money terms but far richer in terms that I think are important for us all.
We are debating a fine line, I suppose, but in my opinion it's rather obvious that EU customers would get their Sigs after US general production. Presuming otherwise would also presume a simultaneous, multi-national launch. Anyone who thought Tesla was capable of that was not really considering reality. This is no surprise to me, and quite expected. I don't know how this could be a surprise to anyone. If Sigs are arriving in EU ahead of general production EU cars, that's all that really matters and there is nothing to be upset about unless you are looking for something to be pissed off about.
I don't think anyone (except maybe the topic starter) expected European Sigs to be delivered before US general production. Tesla has never indicated this would happen, indeed because they didn't want to launch the car on two continents at the same time.
But there is definitely some frustration among European Signature-reservation holders about the fact that:
- Norwegian and Swiss cars are being produced first, amplifying the shorter delivery route. It would have made more sense to produce them a bit later, with the shorter delivery route then resulting in simultaneous delivery with Signatures in other European countries.
- The window between Signatures and P's is much smaller than was promised (nice for the P's, less so for the Sigs who plunked down much more money and helped Tesla through cash-strapped times).
- The Signatures per country are not being built/delivered on order of reservation date, but seemingly random. That is also a broken promise as on many occasions European Tesla-representatives assured that the reservation sequence would be respected.
- There is (was) no active communication from Tesla on the fact that delivery windows are going to be missed, some by a huge margin.
It's a pity, as it puts a damper on what should be a great experience.
But there is definitely some frustration among European Signature-reservation holders about the fact that:
- Norwegian and Swiss cars are being produced first, amplifying the shorter delivery route. It would have made more sense to produce them a bit later, with the shorter delivery route then resulting in simultaneous delivery with Signatures in other European countries.
- The window between Signatures and P's is much smaller than was promised (nice for the P's, less so for the Sigs who plunked down much more money and helped Tesla through cash-strapped times).
- The Signatures per country are not being built/delivered on order of reservation date, but seemingly random. That is also a broken promise as on many occasions European Tesla-representatives assured that the reservation sequence would be respected.
- There is (was) no active communication from Tesla on the fact that delivery windows are going to be missed, some by a huge margin.
It's a pity, as it puts a damper on what should be a great experience.
You have (had) folks saying "They're new, give them a break". Now you've got folks either still saying that, or saying "You should have known better". At what point does Tesla get held accountable?
You're misunderstanding me, I think. I'm not talking about the cross-market phenomenon. I'm talking about Signature vehicles delivered after GP vehicles in the same market. Should they hold up GP vehicle #1 in a market until the last Signature in the market is delivered? Damn straight they should have. Rally the whole freaking work force behind it if it's necessary. Keep your word. Retain customer trust. Show your backbone.
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I swear you must be paraphrasing one of my old posts. Agree completely.
This is the US Signature thread all over again. Which is really very sad, because we should expect better now.
For the original poster who finalized in February and is looking at September delivery if he's lucky... I agree you should be able to drop back. Hmmm, I finalized in early June and got car in late October and that's before production really started rolling. February to September is even longer, so that seems very strange to me.
Give up on the whole thing? I wouldn't give up on the car, because it really is that good. You'll enjoy it quite a bit.
In Norway we now have GP vehicle customers with sequence numbers as high as 223 reporting that they have been contacted by Tesla for delivery between 22Aug and 5Sep. Me, as Sig#4 have a confirmed delivery date of 27Aug. Some sigs have not been contacted by Tesla at all yet. Seems arbitrary. Not sure what to think about that..
In Norway we now have GP vehicle customers with sequence numbers as high as 223 reporting that they have been contacted by Tesla for delivery between 22Aug and 5Sep. Me, as Sig#4 have a confirmed delivery date of 27Aug. Some sigs have not been contacted by Tesla at all yet. Seems arbitrary. Not sure what to think about that..
If P's are actually being delivered ahead of Signatures, that's absolutely unacceptable, if you ask me. First delivery, that is what you paid the premium for!
On the Dutch-Belgian forum someone wrote a complaint letter to Tesla and the answer he received just now includes the following statement:
"Signature Model S will be delivered before General Production Model S in each country."
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By the way, I will get my Sig in The Netherlands late September or early October, so more than a month later than Norwegians P's. There are people on this forum who say: but Norway is not The Netherlands (or France or Austria), and you should look at the delivery sequence per country (which, judging from your delivery window, is also no guarantee). But I disagree. Tesla promised that the 500 European Sigs would be the first cars delivered. It doesn't make sense to only apply that promise to each individual country, because then you might als well choose to do it per region, or per city, or per street. Europe is Europe.
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They absolutely should try and deliver all Sigs before production cars within a market but as we saw, this night lead to a multi week delay in deliveries if one of the later Sig cars has a production problem and needs to be rebuilt. People are really that upset if some early production cars get delivered first? Tesla shouldn't try to deliver production cars first and shouldn't even produce them until the Sigs are done but some overlap is going to happen. Early delivery was one of the big promises with Sigs but so was the custom red. If Tesla builds 1,000 production cars before they are even done with the Sigs and delivers all of those first then yes, that is a big issue. Will see if that happens I guess.
With it front and center as the first of the 3 "values" of Signature when you choose your vehicle configuration, yes.
My beef has been and remains that they say something very explicit and then deliver a weasly or incomplete version of it. If you don't want to deliver on something, don't promise it. If the products don't stand on their own merits without language games and tricks, then you're building a company and a product line with an image problem that some will consider shady, some will call dishonest, and some might even yell fraud.
Others have similar complaints about the supercharger rollout. The language made promises about tripling by the end of July that some forum members believe were far from being met. Why make the promise? Why announce the loaner program with phrasing that "there will be cars at every SC to meet demand and only offered for sale to existing owners" and then immediately fail to meet both underlined portions?
It leaves many of us with a feeling of "I can believe them on the broad brush strokes, but can't trust them on details." And I hate having the feeling... repeatedly.
I guess that the seemingly arbitrary delivery sequence that is now outlined is rooted in the distance from Fremont to Europe, and the nature of the transportation from Fremont to the different markets. But that does not mean that Tesla couldn't have handled the delivery process better.
For some reason they did not manage to put Sig#4 (well, not even Sig#1) on the first ship bound for Europe and Norway. Perhaps these first cars that will be delivered in the publicity event the 7th of August in Oslo are for high-profile customers that may attract even more attention to Tesla? I do not know? If that is the case, I do not like it. If the reason is simply that these few cars were built first due to production concerns - then so be it.
The second shipload (is that the correct term? - by the sound of it, it could be something else :tongue: ) seems to be much larger than the first. It probably contains ready-built cars for Switzerland and Norway. Perhaps also some "unfinished" cars that must be assembled in Tilburg? I do not know. At least when it comes to Norway, the shipment seems to be a mix of P and S cars. Tesla Norway has told me that they do not know the order of which the cars will be unloaded from the ship, and that they will try to expedite the delivery to the customers as soon as their car is ready. I guess that Tesla Norway does not have storage facilities suitable for holding several hundred cars back while the cars are delivered in sequence. (Although the Norwegian port of Drammen where the ship will arrive do have 200.000 sq.m of open storage and can store up to 10.000 cars)
This is indicates that the cars are shipped in containers and not on a ro-ro ship. But nevertheless, these containers must be marked somehow, and unloading should give ample opportunity for sorting out the order. (at least if not Sig#7 and P#239 are in the same container - which might complicate things a bit...)
For some reason they did not manage to put Sig#4 (well, not even Sig#1) on the first ship bound for Europe and Norway. Perhaps these first cars that will be delivered in the publicity event the 7th of August in Oslo are for high-profile customers that may attract even more attention to Tesla? I do not know? If that is the case, I do not like it. If the reason is simply that these few cars were built first due to production concerns - then so be it.
The second shipload (is that the correct term? - by the sound of it, it could be something else :tongue: ) seems to be much larger than the first. It probably contains ready-built cars for Switzerland and Norway. Perhaps also some "unfinished" cars that must be assembled in Tilburg? I do not know. At least when it comes to Norway, the shipment seems to be a mix of P and S cars. Tesla Norway has told me that they do not know the order of which the cars will be unloaded from the ship, and that they will try to expedite the delivery to the customers as soon as their car is ready. I guess that Tesla Norway does not have storage facilities suitable for holding several hundred cars back while the cars are delivered in sequence. (Although the Norwegian port of Drammen where the ship will arrive do have 200.000 sq.m of open storage and can store up to 10.000 cars)
This is indicates that the cars are shipped in containers and not on a ro-ro ship. But nevertheless, these containers must be marked somehow, and unloading should give ample opportunity for sorting out the order. (at least if not Sig#7 and P#239 are in the same container - which might complicate things a bit...)
Again, some folks are making this thread a joke.
No, we are not talking about a single SIG being postponed and delayed behind a single P due to a production problem; beyond the Tesla's controle.
We are talking about systematically prioritizing large groups of customers over others - for reasons we do not know.
If Tesla should have good reasons for doing so; then share those with us !
Now, the deafening silence by Tesla leads -again- to frustration and unhappy customers.
No, we are not talking about a single SIG being postponed and delayed behind a single P due to a production problem; beyond the Tesla's controle.
We are talking about systematically prioritizing large groups of customers over others - for reasons we do not know.
If Tesla should have good reasons for doing so; then share those with us !
Now, the deafening silence by Tesla leads -again- to frustration and unhappy customers.
I got yesterday my acknowledge for delivery of 22nd August, but was called today, that there may be delays as late as 5th September. While i insisted on the first date, i was told they will do their very best to deliver as promised. EU Sig. #32 P85+
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