Wiki Everything you wanted to know about Intelligent Octopus But Were Afraid To Ask

Why write this post?
A lot of people are starting to get interested in IO. I don't think Octopus do a very good job of spelling out the benefits in their website. They have some FAQs, but the same questions keep coming up over and over on the forums.

What is it?
In a nutshell, IO is a split tariff that gives you a cheap off-peak rate for charging your EV and other electrical items in the household, including home batteries.

Isn’t that the same as Octopus Go or Go Faster?
The principle is the same, but in exchange for some benefits which we’ll explain, you allow Octopus to control the timing of your EV charge, so they can choose low carbon intensity and/or cheap wholesale priced time slots.

So I’m not in control of my charge? I don’t like the sound of that!
Well yes…and no. You’re in control of how much to charge and when you want the car to be ready, just like you would be normally. Within those parameters, you’re allowing Octopus to control which half-hour slots the car chooses to get to that target % charge. And you can always override IO if you want to “bump charge” through the day.

OK, but what are the benefits you mentioned for this trade off?
First of all, you get a larger guaranteed off-peak window for using household appliances and charging home batteries, etc. It’s six hours between 23:30-05:30. Go, for example, is a fixed 4 hour window.
In addition, when IO schedules your EV charging slots it sometimes creates schedules that fall outside of the fixed, six hour window. If that happens your EV charging and all your household use in these extra-slots is also charged at off-peak rates.
I have frequently had schedules give me seven or more hours of off-peak rates. On one occasion, I had a total of ten hours of off-peak rates.

Am I eligible?
You need a smart meter and a compatible car and/or charger. Since you’re reading this here, I assume you’ve got or are thinking of getting a Tesla. IO works with the Tesla API to create the charging schedules. The advantage of this is that IO will work with any* home charger. If you have a charger with smart features, you need to disable them so that the charger acts as a dumb switch. IO will control everything via Tesla’s API to start and stop your charging.
*Even your granny charger - but you need to tell IO what the max throughput is when you go through setup so that it can work out your schedules properly.

Some of this sounds too good to be true.
Phantom drain caused by having smart charging enabled in the Octopus app has been fixed as of 30th August 2022. One small side effect appears to be that schedules sometimes take longer to appear in the app after plugging in.

Further questions (to be updated in the main thread body once the edit timer on this post expires)

I have two EVs, can I charge the other while on IO?
Not with IO scheduling the charging, but you can charge any other car in the fixed 23:30-05:30 off peak window or at any other time at peak prices.

What are the rates etc?
Octopus do a decent job of explaining the peak and off-peak rates along with contracts etc. Head over to their pages to discover that.

I asked for a target % of x, but I got less than x.
There are two or three reasons for this.

The first, most common reason, is that Tesla reports battery % differently depending on where you look. The API (that IO uses) reports the gross battery %. This is generally fixed but can fluctuate very slightly. The Tesla app shows usable %. Apps like Teslamate and Teslafi can display both. Quite often, there is a delta of 2-3% which may be down to battery temp or other factors. This usable % will often be recovered as the battery warms up during a drive.

Some users have reported charging % being way off, perhaps 10% or more. This could be down to an error in the onboarding process. Some of the charger database entries incorrectly assume the charger you are onboarding is the 11kW version, without actually saying so in the charger description. The Andersen A2 was an early example of this. If you suspect this may be the case, the easiest thing to do is go through the on-boarding again and choose "Generic 7.4kW charger". It won't affect your functionality on IO in any way.

Lastly, it has to be mentioned that occasionally IO just craps out. It may be down to a comms error, a server error at Octopus' end, or just reasons. IO is a beta product and it's wise to expect one or two quirks from time to time

 

[ACarneiro]

Disable charging in your charger app?

Not if your charger is dumb (as many are). I like them dumb as well, tbh

 

[zoros]

I was on the verge of buying a charger (that was the cheap part), the routing and fixing of cable from consumer unit to the charger was 28m. All in all I couldn't get the cost down below £1300. Then a neighbour of ours (Model S) told me he doesn't bother with a charger and just uses the 3 pin plug.

So I looked at the maths:

A Tesla M3(2021) has a usable battery capacity of approx 75Kw (of the 77kw advertised).
The domestic 3 pin delivers 2.3Kw/h @ 10amps (safety margin against the 13amp fuse).
That's approx 32 hours from 0 - 100%. Approx 300 miles range (real life).
I operate between 30 - 80% (50% overall = 15 to 16 hrs charging required). 150 miles range.
BEFORE I switched to IO, It didn't matter when I charged as I had no off peak tariff. So I plugged it in around 6am and it was ready around 9am.
[email protected] x 28p/Kw = £10. Our Audi S3 would cost £25 for those 150 miles(50% of charge). Our Range Rover would cost £33.
So Tesla = 6.6p/mile. Audi - 16p/mile and RR - 22p/mile.

So I opted OUT of installing a charger, saving me £1000+

Now, with IO, I have 6 hrs (MINIMUM) @ 7,5p/Kw - of those 15 hours. If I stick with my charging regime (15hrs between 6pm and 9am), it now costs £6.5 instead of the £10 previously.
Tesla - 4.4p/mile

or

I simply charge more often - capturing all those 150+ miles inside about 3 x off peak windows. Sometimes I can get a large off peak window in one session (the 6hrs advertised PLUS additional off peak hrs shown on the Octopus App schedule). (Tonight I was scheduled off peak between 6pm right through to 5.30am).
This buys me ALL of the 15hrs @ 7.5p/hr = £2.60p total for the 150 miles. Provided all my chargeable hrs fall within the off peak period obviously.
Tesla - <2p/mile

[We clock an average of 12k/yr in the M3 - do the maths!!]

So:
With IO over 12000m/yr.
No servicing charges.
No car tax.
No MOT.

The only cost that has risen is our EV car insurance (by £200).

I have no need for a charger...........................................yet. (I'm buying another EV this year because of the cost savings - so some juggling imminent!

Thabnk you Octopus.

 

[Drew57]

Anytime I do a rough calculation I try to include a degree of AC/DC conversion losses which can be greater on the colder nights. Charging using IO definitely costs us more than 7.5p/kWh but I don't recall anyone calculating the true cost. 9p/kWh seems fair on the basis that it is probably a bit better than this.

I often top-up the Tesla overnight at my Fathers on his E7 low rate seven hours & on one occasion at around -5C the 10a UMC added significantly less charge than normal, presumably because battery heating struggled against the ambient temperature.

 

[Roger20]

I operate between 30 - 80% (50% overall = 15 to 16 hrs charging required). 150 miles range.
BEFORE I switched to IO, It didn't matter when I charged as I had no off peak tariff. So I plugged it in around 6am and it was ready around 9am.
[email protected] x 28p/Kw = £10

Assuming you arrived back home at 6pm but needed the car the next day for some limited local mileage, would IO definitely give you, as a minimum, the 6 hour overnight charging slot that you would have got if you, rather than Octopus were controlling the charging?

I'm due to get my M3 LR Highland early February and have joined Octopus so starting to think a bit more about charging. I have a dumb charger but it is an older Polar type which gives 3.7Kw which would normally be enough to get from 20% to nearly 80% over a couple of nights. But I do need that overnight option if I get back late with a low charge and need to do some mileage the next day.

 

[zoros]

Hi Roger, congrats on the Highland - give us some feedback when you bed it in!
Octopus guarantee a minimum of 6 hours, come what may, with or without a car charger. And it can be 'almost' any EV, too.
What Octopus IO does (amongst other things) is give you a schedule which starts with this 6 hours but often extends it to earlier windows throughout the evening, hence why you should plug in as soon as you get home - so that the Octopus app can talk to the car via its API.

Considering the savings EV owners make per year, it is plain to see that installing the 7Kw charger for domestic use is a no brainer if you need to get as much charge into the car as possible every night.
A 7Kw charger will need approx 11 hours of charging for the 75Kw Tesla battery on a standard M3Long Range.
The 7Kw charger for the tesla produces approx 28 mph and the 3 pin plug around 9 mph of charging.

 

[golfcaddy]

Quick question as I couldn't find the specific answer in this thread...
Going away for a couple of weeks and my MY will be parked at the airport.

Is it safe to just suspend smart charging in the Octopus app so it doesn't wake the car, or should I disconnect the car entirely and reconnect when I return?

Thanks

 

[Cardo]

Quick question as I couldn't find the specific answer in this thread...
Going away for a couple of weeks and my MY will be parked at the airport.

Is it safe to just suspend smart charging in the Octopus app so it doesn't wake the car, or should I disconnect the car entirely and reconnect when I return?

Thanks

You shouldn’t need to do anything as IO shouldn’t try anything as the car will be away from your home location. However, for belt and braces, you can simply disable smart charge in the settings in the Octopus app. There is no need to disconnect the car entirely.

 

[KennethS]

A 7Kw charger will need approx 11 hours of charging for the 75Kw Tesla battery on a standard M3Long Range.
The 7Kw charger for the tesla produces approx 28 mph and the 3 pin plug around 9 mph of charging.

The ~11 hours would be 75Kw, so from 0% to 100%. My general rule of thumb for both our M3 and MY is 1hr = 10% charge added. We rarely need to add more than 50% on any one night, so the IO 6 hour cheaper rate always has been sufficient for our needs.

 

[ACarneiro]

I was on the verge of buying a charger (that was the cheap part), the routing and fixing of cable from consumer unit to the charger was 28m. All in all I couldn't get the cost down below £1300. Then a neighbour of ours (Model S) told me he doesn't bother with a charger and just uses the 3 pin plug.

So I looked at the maths:

A Tesla M3(2021) has a usable battery capacity of approx 75Kw (of the 77kw advertised).
The domestic 3 pin delivers 2.3Kw/h @ 10amps (safety margin against the 13amp fuse).
That's approx 32 hours from 0 - 100%. Approx 300 miles range (real life).
I operate between 30 - 80% (50% overall = 15 to 16 hrs charging required). 150 miles range.
BEFORE I switched to IO, It didn't matter when I charged as I had no off peak tariff. So I plugged it in around 6am and it was ready around 9am.
[email protected] x 28p/Kw = £10. Our Audi S3 would cost £25 for those 150 miles(50% of charge). Our Range Rover would cost £33.
So Tesla = 6.6p/mile. Audi - 16p/mile and RR - 22p/mile.

So I opted OUT of installing a charger, saving me £1000+

Now, with IO, I have 6 hrs (MINIMUM) @ 7,5p/Kw - of those 15 hours. If I stick with my charging regime (15hrs between 6pm and 9am), it now costs £6.5 instead of the £10 previously.
Tesla - 4.4p/mile

or

I simply charge more often - capturing all those 150+ miles inside about 3 x off peak windows. Sometimes I can get a large off peak window in one session (the 6hrs advertised PLUS additional off peak hrs shown on the Octopus App schedule). (Tonight I was scheduled off peak between 6pm right through to 5.30am).
This buys me ALL of the 15hrs @ 7.5p/hr = £2.60p total for the 150 miles. Provided all my chargeable hrs fall within the off peak period obviously.
Tesla - <2p/mile

[We clock an average of 12k/yr in the M3 - do the maths!!]

So:
With IO over 12000m/yr.
No servicing charges.
No car tax.
No MOT.

The only cost that has risen is our EV car insurance (by £200).

I have no need for a charger...........................................yet. (I'm buying another EV this year because of the cost savings - so some juggling imminent!

Thabnk you Octopus.

Seems reasonable but you may yet have to bite the charger bullet if IO ends or Octopus decide to just stick to the 6hrs and no more (I believe their T&Cs state that they reserve the right to charge any usage above 6 hors/day at peak rates, probably to give them a safeguard against abuse, but at the moment that is not what they do).

 

[browellm]

Is it safe to just suspend smart charging in the Octopus app so it doesn't wake the car, or should I disconnect the car entirely and reconnect when I return?

You won't need to do either. IO won't wake your car.

 

[zoros]

I concur, IO can't wake your car if the car isn't connected AND at your annotated location (ie: home).
IO can't talk to the car via its API if the car isn't plugged in.
ACarneiro - I suspect you are right. IO seems incredibly generous considering the whole house benefits during the off peak windows!
I have also heard arrangements between certain energy providers and some car manufacturers may be coming to an end. So the API ( APIs For Dummies | APIcontext.com basic guide to APIs and why they matter ) may come to an end also. In that worse case scenario we will still retain the 6hr window.

 

[zoros]

Golfcaddy - don't forget to disable your "Sentry" facility when the car is stored!!!

 

[Roger20]

Hi Roger, congrats on the Highland - give us some feedback when you bed it in!
Octopus guarantee a minimum of 6 hours, come what may, with or without a car charger. And it can be 'almost' any EV, too.
What Octopus IO does (amongst other things) is give you a schedule which starts with this 6 hours but often extends it to earlier windows throughout the evening, hence why you should plug in as soon as you get home - so that the Octopus app can talk to the car via its API.

Considering the savings EV owners make per year, it is plain to see that installing the 7Kw charger for domestic use is a no brainer if you need to get as much charge into the car as possible every night.
A 7Kw charger will need approx 11 hours of charging for the 75Kw Tesla battery on a standard M3Long Range.
The 7Kw charger for the tesla produces approx 28 mph and the 3 pin plug around 9 mph of charging.

Thanks for this. Will update on the new car eventually.

So just to be clear, if I plugged in at 6pm I would definitely get the 6 hour overnight schedule but could get more, either from 6pm to midnight or after the 11:30 to 5:30am has finished? Just want to be sure that with IO, coming back with only 20% I will always have the overnight 6 hours as a minimum. Anything else is going to be a bonus up to the 80% limit. I assume there are no drawbacks to leaving it plugged in even if not actually charging.

With the long range I will probably limit charging to 80% at home and possibly even on trips if there is good Tesla superchargers enroute. If so, is this limit set by the Tesla app or do Octopus also give you that as an option in their app?

 

[browellm]

Thanks for this. Will update on the new car eventually.

So just to be clear, if I plugged in at 6pm I would definitely get the 6 hour overnight schedule but could get more, either from 6pm to midnight or after the 11:30 to 5:30am has finished? Just want to be sure that with IO, coming back with only 20% I will always have the overnight 6 hours as a minimum. Anything else is going to be a bonus up to the 80% limit. I assume there are no drawbacks to leaving it plugged in even if not actually charging.

With the long range I will probably limit charging to 80% at home and possibly even on trips if there is good Tesla superchargers enroute. If so, is this limit set by the Tesla app or do Octopus also give you that as an option in their app?

All the info in the OP is correct

 

[zoros]

Roger - The Tesla App always has priority. If you set 80% on the TA and 100% on the OApp, charging will cease when the tesla reaches 80%.
Going back to your first Q:
Once the IO and Tesla apps start talking, the IO looks at what you want. IF it thinks it can provide this amount of charge inside the standard overnight tarif time of 1130 - 0530, it will show this in the schedule and it WON'T give you cheap electricity before this time frame.
IF the IO thinks you need much more charge than the allocated advertised 6 hr overnight window, it will check with the National Grid if there are other 'cheap' windows of off peak available before the normal 6hr window. This will come up in the IO schedule. The ca r will then deliver this to "your house" (don't forget)
and start charging earlier. This is why you need to plug in when you get home!
I have seen and benefitted from examples of off peak being offered before the standard 6hr window. I have never seen off peak being offered after the 6hr window (to date).
Remember this: Off peak is delivered to your house (ALL electrical devices) during charging using off peak prices. Once the car is full - there is a time delay beyond this where it still 'offers' off peak to the house. (varies from 15 minutes to hours). You can take advantage of this by running high demand items like dishwasher/washing machine etc. Eventually IO will realise the EV is full and disconnect the schedule. Henceforth all demand from the house is ON peak rates.

So use it - or you lose it!

TIP: IF you can afford the time - you can extend the charge time of the car by reducing the amperage scale on the Tesla App. For instance if your TApp says you need to charge for 9hrs, ......and this is showing at 10A, then dial this figure down to say 5A (eg) and the charge time increases to say 14hrs.
The charge takes longer - the car stays connected to IO, the IOApp delivers more off peak now for longer (14hrs) PROVIDED this 14 hours falls inside the schedule being offered. This way - your "house" gets 14hrs (@5A) of off peak instead of 9hrs (@10A). So you are benefitting for longer around the house!

Again, a reminder: the moment you disconnect the car from the charger - all bets are off and the off peak supply stops.

 

[Js1977]

TIP: IF you can afford the time - you can extend the charge time of the car by reducing the amperage scale on the Tesla App. For instance if your TApp says you need to charge for 9hrs, ......and this is showing at 10A, then dial this figure down to say 5A (eg) and the charge time increases to say 14hrs.
The charge takes longer - the car stays connected to IO, the IOApp delivers more off peak now for longer (14hrs) PROVIDED this 14 hours falls inside the schedule being offered. This way - your "house" gets 14hrs (@5A) of off peak instead of 9hrs (@10A). So you are benefitting for longer around the house!

Lowering the amperage in the car will not give more hours (and would be naughty) even if it did.

The slots are given at the point of connection and IO does not care about the charge rate at this point because you cant set a charger at the point of signing up that is lower than 10A hence this is what it calculates at start of the slots.

Having said that, Octopus is very generous with the slots regardless in some areas at least.

 

[browellm]

So much of this is incorrect.

IF it thinks it can provide this amount of charge inside the standard overnight tarif time of 1130 - 0530, it will show this in the schedule and it WON'T give you cheap electricity before this time frame.

IF the IO thinks you need much more charge than the allocated advertised 6 hr overnight window, it will check with the National Grid if there are other 'cheap' windows of off peak available before the normal 6hr window. This will come up in the IO schedule. The ca r will then deliver this to "your house" (don't forget)

This isn't how scheduling works. The fixed period is merely an 'anchor' for the tariff, so users can schedule overnight load-shifting of household energy without the requirement for more complex integrations such as Home Assistant. IO does not prioritise schedules within the window - it looks at a variety of factors when scheduling such as wholesale pricing, carbon intensity and regional grid loads. Many of the lowest slots do fall between the fixed window but there is no inherent prioritisation of this by the tariff.

Off peak is delivered to your house (ALL electrical devices) during charging using off peak prices. Once the car is full - there is a time delay beyond this where it still 'offers' off peak to the house. (varies from 15 minutes to hours).

It does not vary from "15 minutes to hours". Once the car has reached its target charge, or is disconnected, any current HH off-peak slot in use is billed off peak. Example: If the slot started at 0700 and charging finished at 0701, the slot will run off-peak to 0730. If charging finished at 0729, the slot will run off-peak to 0730. Any "planned dispatches" slots forward of this will be billed at peak rate.

TIP: IF you can afford the time - you can extend the charge time of the car by reducing the amperage scale on the Tesla App. For instance if your TApp says you need to charge for 9hrs, ......and this is showing at 10A, then dial this figure down to say 5A (eg) and the charge time increases to say 14hrs.

This is against the ToS and Fair Use. I hope they chuck you off the tariff if you are at this nonsense.

 

[Roger20]

Thank you both @zoros and @browellm for the OP - really helpful and reassuring now I understand the process. Should have read the OP more carefully

I now think that despite the charger only being 3.7 Kw unless I really need a full charge the day after, even a single 6 hour charge should work. If it's not sufficient then exceptionally I would have to top up with a supercharge on a journey.

I have been debating getting a 7Kw charger, like the Givenergy which is realistically priced. This would then integrate with our solar system. However with installation I could see this costing £6/700 minimum and substantially more if the main consumer unit had to be replaced with metal to comply with current regulations or need extra ways for a CT clamp. However the payback time for this is just too long. Similarly with a battery system to utilise surplus solar.

So many decisions. Cybertruck and possibly the BYD Seal are going to be at the vanguard of a revolution in energy use with 'vehicle-to-the-grid'. Imagine what the energy and EV market is going to be like in say 5 years time if there were many thousands of EVs supporting the grid, each with 60/80 Kw of storage. If this were mandated by governments then the higher cost of an electric vehicle is suddenly going to become much more viable if owners can store at off-peak rates and then be paid to export back to the grid. Current owners like us are going to miss out but going forward EVs will become far easier to justify to the detriment of conventional ICE transport.

 

[zoros]

Browelm - forgive me, I didn't realise you were from the energy provider police

JS1977 - reducing the amperage does slow down charging (fact), giving you longer to 'top up' and allowing you to remain inside the cheap tarif (that is advertised) for longer.

As for the other replies - I leave you with this - IO is very good at what it does.............and what it could do.
Provided one 'fully understands' this, it is amazing what one can do and what one can get out of it .

 

[notmeguv]

Fact - the 'system' can be (how shall I say this) "adjusted" to give you more scheduled off peak windows available on the IO app, so that you can utilise these if necessary.

Apparently Octopus may have already started kicking people off IO for not using it correctly. There is some discussion about it on the Myenergi forums.

Ultimately people gaming the system are likely to ruin it for everyone eventually.