FD Beta : TomTom Map, Roundabouts and the Speedlimit

[scottf200]

In TomTom looks like "right turn" is missing. Correct it is TomTom.

I couldn't find a web browser interface for TomTom. Perhaps others know of one.
I tried Google maps and OSM (via OSRM OpenStreetMap Routing with Open Source Routing Machine )

From: Shurtleff Ave, Napa, CA 94559
To: 132 Soscol Ave, Napa, CA 94559 [Val's Liquors]

UPDATE: I found a TomTom online tool. Shows similar "error"

Plan.TomTom.com

TomTom Route Planner

mydrive.tomtom.com

 

[EVNow]

UPDATE: I found a TomTom online tool. Shows similar "error"

Plan.TomTom.com

TomTom Route Planner

mydrive.tomtom.com

Wow - we are getting closer to confirming that Tesla is using TomTom maps and navigation.

ps : Does TomTom have waypoints ? Is it more expensive .... that might explain why Tesla has been reluctant to add waypoints.

 

[scottf200]

Wow - we are getting closer to confirming that Tesla is using TomTom maps and navigation.

ps : Does TomTom have waypoints ? Is it more expensive .... that might explain why Tesla has been reluctant to add waypoints.

That interface I found does. It let me stop at the Denny's on the way.

 

[EVNow]

That interface I found does. It let me stop at the Denny's on the way.

In the good old days of GPS - I remember way points needed a higher version of the GPS. I've to wonder whether Tesla had to "upgrade" everyone to a higher version to get WayPoints and thus they kept putting it off.

 

[Mardak]

Is there a good way to get `lanes` data from TomTom? I'm pretty sure most of the odd/unnecessary lane changes I've noticed from private beta FSD videos and my own experiences have matched up with inconsistent OpenStreetMap data. I just tested 3 different roads today where just going straight resulted in FSD Beta 10.4 wanting to unnecessarily switch to the left lane (highlighting vehicles in the left lane as blue) instead of just staying in the right lane. These all happened to be 5-lane roads with 2 lanes in each direction and 1 center turn lane. This problem only seems to happen when traveling "backward" (opposite direction of how the line/way was drawn in OSM).

way[lanes=5]['lanes:backward'=2]['lanes:forward'=2][!'lanes:both_ways']({{bbox}});(._;>;);out;

For example, I expect someone in Santa Clara traveling South on Winchester in the right lane would have FSD Beta want to switch to the left lane:

There are other `lanes` related routing issues such as if there's no lane count at all probably defaulting to a behavior of assuming only 1 lane. Previously there were more obvious issues with turn lane data, but that seems to be lessened with Lanes network introduced in Beta 10 now predicting that immediate data, so the main obvious issue is more of longer term route planning for lane selection.

 

[eli_]

It's funny but I found when the car makes a lane change because of upcoming map-based lane restrictions, it almost always takes me by surprise and I usually end up disengaging it. I only later realize it was reacting to a turn lane that is some 1+ miles down the road and was a valid thing to do. I'm sure they already know this but there needs to be UI around these lane changes, it's very inconsistent as to when it shows an upcoming lane change on the display.

 

[EVNow]

Is there a good way to get `lanes` data from TomTom?

Not that I know of.

 

[EVNow]

I found an interesting area near me. Its an area that is quite different in Google and OSM and TomTom (and even Bing is slightly different from TomTom).

There are some new neighborhoods coming up there - and the main road has a number of new roundabouts. OSM & TomTom/Bing show no roundabouts but Google shows a couple. There are multiple roads near by with differences between OSM and TomTom. From the drive today it was clear Tesla was using TomTom map - but will make a few more runs to make sure I can definitely say whether OSM, TomTom or Bing is used.

Left - OSM Cycle, Center Google, Right TomTom.

View attachment 733765


ps : I've a TON of corrections to submit to TomTom

Submitted 8 corrections to TomTom in this area yesterday. Got all accepted today. Curious to see what changes they make - I get the impression if they touch an area they make all the needed corrections, rather than just the ones we raise.

 

[Mardak]

If the connectivity map data is indeed based on TomTom, it hasn't gotten to the car as an incremental update. Here FSD Beta 10.5 wanted to turn right even though navigation wanted to turn left (although navigation was very confused around here drawing a full blue rectangle around this block -- i.e., go in a full "circle"):

Google Maps and OSM/MapBox don't know the cross street is 1-way to the left while TomTom and Bing Maps do show the 1-way arrow.

 

[EVNow]

If the connectivity map data is indeed based on TomTom, it hasn't gotten to the car as an incremental update. Here FSD Beta 10.5 wanted to turn right even though navigation wanted to turn left (although navigation was very confused around here drawing a full blue rectangle around this block -- i.e., go in a full "circle"):
View attachment 736491
Google Maps and OSM/MapBox don't know the cross street is 1-way to the left while TomTom and Bing Maps do show the 1-way arrow.

Does TomTom show this as right turn restricted ?

What does TomTom web navigation show ?

Plan.TomTom.com

TomTom Route Planner

mydrive.tomtom.com

 

[Dutchy Ron]

If the connectivity map data is indeed based on TomTom, it hasn't gotten to the car as an incremental update. Here FSD Beta 10.5 wanted to turn right even though navigation wanted to turn left (although navigation was very confused around here drawing a full blue rectangle around this block -- i.e., go in a full "circle"):
Google Maps and OSM/MapBox don't know the cross street is 1-way to the left while TomTom and Bing Maps do show the 1-way arrow.

What is the behavior of your Tesla, are you convinced Tesla is using TomTom maps?

 

[Ramphex]

I feel like it’s hard to test this accurately, considering it’s unknown what version of OpenStreet the car is running. According to the car, navigation is some 2020 version. What version of TomTom would it be running, if it was? How do we know what was edited or added and when?

 

[EVNow]

I feel like it’s hard to test this accurately, considering it’s unknown what version of OpenStreet the car is running. According to the car, navigation is some 2020 version. What version of TomTom would it be running, if it was? How do we know what was edited or added and when?

One way to test would be finding differences between say OSM and TomTom. See what navigation is chosen in those areas. You can cross-check with the navigation chosen by TomTom web planner. If Tesla selects the incorrect map - correct it in OSM/TomTom - and check whether the correction flows to Tesla and Tesla behaves correctly after that.

I'm now on the last step. I've found multiple differences between OSM and TomTom near my home. TomTom was incorrect in a few places and Tesla seemed to use those (including trying to go into a non-existent road and not recognizing a roundabout not in TomTom but in OSM). You can see my explanations up-thread. I submitted corrections for those in TomTom and TomTom has accepted and changed the map. Now I'm waiting for Tesla to get the map corrections and behave correctly. This could be a long wait. No map changes for me in 10.5.

There is another set of complex corrections I've submitted to TomTom. If those also get downloaded to Tesla and Tesla recognizes all the round-abouts it would doubly confirm usage of TomTom (since those brand new constructions are not even in OSM/Google yet).

 

[Ramphex]

One way to test would be finding differences between say OSM and TomTom. See what navigation is chosen in those areas. You can cross-check with the navigation chosen by TomTom web planner. If Tesla selects the incorrect map - correct it in OSM/TomTom - and check whether the correction flows to Tesla and Tesla behaves correctly after that.

I'm now on the last step. I've found multiple differences between OSM and TomTom near my home. TomTom was incorrect in a few places and Tesla seemed to use those (including trying to go into a non-existent road and not recognizing a roundabout not in TomTom but in OSM). You can see my explanations up-thread. I submitted corrections for those in TomTom and TomTom has accepted and changed the map. Now I'm waiting for Tesla to get the map corrections and behave correctly. This could be a long wait. No map changes for me in 10.5.

There is another set of complex corrections I've submitted to TomTom. If those also get downloaded to Tesla and Tesla recognizes all the round-abouts it would doubly confirm usage of TomTom (since those brand new constructions are not even in OSM/Google yet).

How often do you think Tesla downloads those corrections? My Nav Data is still at NA-2020.48-12628

 

[EVNow]

How often do you think Tesla downloads those corrections? My Nav Data is still at NA-2020.48-12628

Yes - thats the issue.

Youtubers keep saying some of their mapping issues got fixed ... so I wonder whether Tesla can send small changes to the map with regular s/w releases. Infact I just saw a post here somewhere (in one of the dozen threads on 10.5) that some mapping issues seemed fixed.

So, if I need to wait for the next version of map - it would be a looong time. Otherwise could be in one of the releases.

BTW, I do think they will have to fix maps more often since FSD beta is so dependent on maps. Many of the reported bugs can only be fixed with map corrections. I wonder whether what they will do ... I'll try tweeting to Elon and others.

 

[scottf200]

... so I wonder whether Tesla can send small changes to the map with regular s/w releases. Infact I just saw a post here somewhere (in one of the dozen threads on 10.5) that some mapping issues seemed fixed.

So, if I need to wait for the next version of map - it would be a looong time. Otherwise could be in one of the releases.

BTW, I do think they will have to fix maps more often since FSD beta is so dependent on maps. Many of the reported bugs can only be fixed with map corrections. I wonder whether what they will do ... I'll try tweeting to Elon and others.

Twitter: GreenTheOnly - "yes, they do the map overlays very regularly"

 

[EVNow]

Twitter: GreenTheOnly - "yes, they do the map overlays very regularly"

So there is some hope.

In 10.5 my map issues are not fixed.

I wonder whether I've to repeatedly send reports on the issues and send emails. I'll try that ...

We really need explanation from Tesla on exactly what maps they are using and how to get those corrected. Considering how maps play such a huge role in FSD Beta, Tesla should really be explaining this. There is no reason for us to do this by trial & error method.

 

[colettimj]

Does TomTom show this as right turn restricted ?

What does TomTom web navigation show ?

Plan.TomTom.com

TomTom Route Planner

mydrive.tomtom.com

Had to put two 'pins' in the route as it wanted to take me on some back roads due to traffic.

Travel direction is from bottom to top then left. So Tesla is using Tom-Tom nav info?

 

[Dutchy Ron]

@EVNow maybe you can ask Elon in a tweet how maps can be corrected.

 

[EVNow]

Had to put two 'pins' in the route as it wanted to take me on some back roads due to traffic.

Travel direction is from bottom to top then left. So Tesla is using Tom-Tom nav info?
View attachment 736894

Looks like it, right ?

Now - you can go to TomTom and ask for a correction (you could use turn restrictions and say there shouldn't be any turn restrictions). Once TomTom accepts the change and makes the change - you will see the planner change the route to use the left turn. How and when it flows to the car is a the question we don't have answers to yet.