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Firmware 7.0 - For Classic Model S

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I continue to be astounded by your rejection of v7 on your AP-enabled vehicle. IMO, if you're rejecting v7 based on the UI, you're likely just going to have to reject every update from here on out.
Yep, I pretty much expect that my P85D will stay on 6.2 for as long as Tesla will let me. I can see myself driving on 6.2 in 2020 :) Based on what I want and don't want from my car that seems like the best solution. I have posted about my reasons way too often and am actually planning to step away from the forum for a while since the hostility that I'm getting for voicing what I think about the UI (and Tesla) and my dis-interest in the new "features" is making it less fun to spend time here. It's the third time that I'm walking away from TMC. This should sound familiar to you, wk057.
Anyway, I realize that my rejection of v7 makes no sense to a lot of people. I have heard from a fair number of people who are doing the same, several of whom aren't comfortable posting about it. I can't blame them.
 
Yep, I pretty much expect that my P85D will stay on 6.2 for as long as Tesla will let me. I can see myself driving on 6.2 in 2020 :) Based on what I want and don't want from my car that seems like the best solution. I have posted about my reasons way too often and am actually planning to step away from the forum for a while since the hostility that I'm getting for voicing what I think about the UI (and Tesla) and my dis-interest in the new "features" is making it less fun to spend time here. It's the third time that I'm walking away from TMC. This should sound familiar to you, wk057.
Anyway, I realize that my rejection of v7 makes no sense to a lot of people. I have heard from a fair number of people who are doing the same, several of whom aren't comfortable posting about it. I can't blame them.

Ah yeah, the hostility thing gets a bit old. Definitely take a forum break if you need it. I wasn't trying to be hostile I promise! I read your reasons and understand them. I'm just impressed you're following through. ;)

While I doubt it will change your mind, I would definitely suggest trying out a quick drive in an AP v7 car if at all possible nearby. I had some reservations (but was going to upgrade regardless due to AP), but it's not really as bad as you might think. The UI definitely could have been much better, and I expected better personally, but I guess I like the autopilot stuff enough to not care about where it's lacking for now. Maybe I'll get fed up enough with the power meter soon and do another contest. :D
 
Just to add some positivity to this thread...

Non-AP car and I'm really digging 7.0. Much cleaner design, much faster UI response time. Yes, there are some minor usability things here and there with the layout, specifically with the HUD, but I'd imagine I'll either get used to it or they'll clean it up in 7.1.

Overall experience is positive. The UI performance is just a big jump. Probably 150-200ms on taps, moving windows is completely fluid instead of jumpy, etc.
 
Took the wife's P85 for a spin again today. The refresh rate of the IC is definitely higher. Very noticeable on the power meter and analog speedometer.

I wonder why mine is not? Perhaps the early cars didn't have as fast a processor? It's not horrible or anything but seems just the same as before to me. I even have a few screens that lag a bit when they change, but it did that before too. (I did re-boot).
 
Took the wife's P85 for a spin again today. The refresh rate of the IC is definitely higher. Very noticeable on the power meter and analog speedometer. There seems to be more anti-aliasing on the IC, surprisingly as minuscule changes in power usage are noticeable now.
I wonder why mine is not? Perhaps the early cars didn't have as fast a processor? It's not horrible or anything but seems just the same as before to me. I even have a few screens that lag a bit when they change, but it did that before too. (I did re-boot).

Do either of you know whether your car ha the first gen instrument cluster of the second? I don't know when it changed, but the older one was generally regarded as more responsive, but had lower resolution. Perhaps wk's wife's P85 had the newer one and it's been optimized enough to perform as well as the older one always did? If mknox has the older one, perhaps it didn't really see much (if any) of an improvement with v7 and that could account for the different experiences?

My car has the older style. I believe you can tell by the thickness of the bezel around the IC. Mine is pretty thick and tapered and I think the newest one is less thick and much more even.
 
My car has the older style. I believe you can tell by the thickness of the bezel around the IC. Mine is pretty thick and tapered and I think the newest one is less thick and much more even.

Mine is the older style. The resolution was "okay" before, but the little toy car in v7 really highlights the fact that it is lower res. When the running lights are on, you can barely see the brake lights or turn signals come on, but at least I can see the bar across the top of the glass show up when the brakes are on. As far as responsiveness goes, it seems exactly the same as before to me... no better and no worse.
 
Non-AP car and I'm really digging 7.0. Much cleaner design, much faster UI response time. Yes, there are some minor usability things here and there with the layout, specifically with the HUD, but I'd imagine I'll either get used to it or they'll clean it up in 7.1.
Glad you like the new UI, as do I. A question: I've noticed a few TMC member ps refer to a "HUD". In my experience, that acronym stands for Head Up a Display. See Head-up display - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Is that what you mean? If so, as far as I know Tesla has never built a car with a HUD. Or do you mean something else by using "HUD"? My reading of your post is that you are referring to the display in front of the driver just above the steering column. But that is not a HUD, based on how the term is commonly used.
 
Mine is the older style. The resolution was "okay" before, but the little toy car in v7 really highlights the fact that it is lower res. When the running lights are on, you can barely see the brake lights or turn signals come on, but at least I can see the bar across the top of the glass show up when the brakes are on. As far as responsiveness goes, it seems exactly the same as before to me... no better and no worse.

Under 6.2, I noticed how much more responsive our older, low-res ICs are every time I had a loaner. The older one definitely was definitely more responsive to dynamically changing data.
 
Tesla is not a customer of my employer. But I've been in this industry for a couple of decades and I happen to know a good many of the professional service houses around IVI systems and especially around Qt based IVI systems. And I have learned from them that Tesla is to the best of their (and my) knowledge the only car company who isn't working with outside help. Even though they so desperately need it. And one of the top houses in the field, whose owner has test driven my car, then contacted Tesla offering help and was told in so many words that their services weren't needed. So no, this has nothing to do with me and everything to do with Tesla's believe that they don't need help in developing a better UI.
No offense meant, but if the Leaf's UI is an example of what outside help does, Tesla is better off doing it themselves.

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Another oddity I just noticed is that when you get in the car the screens stay the same until the car is started. Now often this doesn't make any difference but if the last time it was day and now it's night the screen lighting is wrong.
 
No offense meant, but if the Leaf's UI is an example of what outside help does, Tesla is better off doing it themselves.

Not just the Leaf, essentially every other car has maddeningly bad IVI. Every time I have a rental I'm just shocked at how poor they are. Cadillac CUE and Ford MyTouch are standout examples of everything wrong with car IVI. I too, can see why Tesla did it on their own.
 
Please, please send your detailed concerns to [email protected] so they reach the right people.

I'll second the comment to take this great list to ownership.

I was driving the kids to school this morning. It was early and it was bright enough to wear sunglasses (and I have readers in my shades). The lights were off, but the UI was dark for most of the ride I guess because of the amount of shade I was still driving through. I really couldn't see anything on either screen. I know I could have changed the brightness, but I have the brightness set so that I can see just fine when it is actually dark.

I'm going to quote this because I had this exact situation this morning getting on the highway after dropping off the kids and the UI fails:

evp said:
PLEASE go to your chief U/I designer's office, turn his desk so it's facing the window, have the blinds removed so the sun shines on his computer screen. Then put glasses on his head that give him the equivalent of 20/40 vision (the minimum to legally drive).:
 
I got the update done Friday night. I'd intended to skip it after seeing some comments here, but I'd said "OK" that morning and forgot about it.

Meh, not a fan. The "look" is fine, but the functionality is worse.

They removed useful "at a glance info" like HVAC and buried it in a menu. I now have to take my eyes off the road, open a menu, look, then close the menu just to see what the hell the HVAC is set to. That's bad usability. I'm boggled how someone thought removing at a glance info was a good idea.

They took the "at a glance" time/temp info off the driver's console and moved it to the center console. Not horrible, but a stupid choice. You're driving a car...make UI choices that leave your eyes on the road as much as possible. Glancing at the driver's console keeps your eyes on the road better than glancing at the center console.

Other silly things like taking range, which can matter while driving, and moving it to a corner. Meanwhile, they put the odometer right in the center in some of the most valuable screen space...which there is basically never a need for while driving. What the hell was the use case there? "OMG, I hit 25,000, quick call Tesla service right now to schedule an appointment!"

It's prettier I suppose, but with poorer actual usability. I'd rather have the 6.2 layout. The 7.0 look is fine, though I'm completely ambivalent on the "clean" style.

Pro: There was one good functional change, literally the ONLY such change I found....you can unlock the door now from the main screen. Still, the priorities there boggle the mind. Unlocking the doors, something you literally DO NOT do while driving, got 1-button access, but HVAC stuff you need while actually driving...buried in a menu.

I can only guess that the graphics department kidnapped the usability team and locked them in the closet.
 
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I am referring to the "Zero Mile" protection buffer of 5.1kWh, or 17 rated miles. See this link for more details (skip to "So how far I can really drive?" heading)

View attachment 98168

there is no such buffer. there never was. that image was fabricated by someone and not a Tesla image. zero means zero. if you go past 0, car shuts down.

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5- The analogue clock app is useless.

not just useless, but extremely hideous and wasted space. what the !?!?!?! was Tesla thinking here? that "app" is clearly a BAD intern project. Tesla: please delete it and put back the way the clock was before!

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This never had happened with multiple 100% charges on 6.2.

actually this happens with me on 6.2 all the time with 100% charge. Highest I've gone is 11 miles without rated range dropping at all.

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Regen has been reduced in the firmware. I have a benchmark road I test it on.

Fully warmed pack, that is able to take the full regen power, if I remove foot immediately as I pass the 55mph speed limit sign while doing exactly 60, I will be doing 5mph as I approach the stop light. Thats how it was when I got my car. as well as all the loaners I had back in 2013. NOW, however, in the same exact spot, where nothing else has changed, done exactly the same, I arrive at that stop light doing ~18mph in my Classic version car, and with EVERY autopilot loaner I've had, I've arrived at the light doing 25-30mph. My benchmark proves changes were made. I do not like it, I actually wanted STRONGER regen then what I had when I got my car. Not less.

they permanently changed regen at some point. I never get the "full regen" anymore that we had when we got our cars back in 2013. its way too soft now, and I use my brakes so much more often. :(
 
41,000 is a lot of miles? LOL

LOL

I eat 41,000 miles for breakfast.

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Dear Elon:

PLEASE go to your chief U/I designer's office, turn his desk so it's facing the window, have the blinds removed so the sun shines on his computer screen. Then put glasses on his head that give him the equivalent of 20/40 vision (the minimum to legally drive). Sit him down in front of his U/I design to read the screens and tell you the following:

1) What time is it? In what time zone?
2) What is the current rated range?
3) How many miles remaining to your destination? To your next turn?
4) How many miles of range will you have in reserve when you get there?
5) What is the current outside temperature and how will it affect your range reserve?
6) What is the state of the heating/AC system and how is it affecting your range?
7) Can you skip the nearest SC and make it to the next one at your current state of charge?
8) What speed can you maintain to get to your destination with a buffer of 30 miles? 15 miles?

These are the questions we ask ourselves when we take long trips in the Tesla. We do it every 15 minutes or so. Please encourage your designer to consider how these displays are used in real-life scenarios, and test how easy it is to see and read them in real-life conditions.

Ask your designer why it was so painfully difficult to gather all this information in one's head in version 6 U/I, and then ask him why it is in fact more difficult to do so in V7. Why is he so determined to waste the three critical resources available to him as a U/I designer, those being: 1) screen acreage; 2) color and contrast; 3) organization of information.

Let's consider how these resources are used in the current design.

In the center of the primary display we have large swaths of tasteful gray screen containing nothing, surrounding an exciting analog speedometer and power display which in turn surround a digital speedometer and a nice midget car. The analog speedo and power displays are all colorful and contrasty, but since the labelling is at such low contrast that it's almost impossible to read on a sunny day, and the MPH doesn't even have 5MPH tick marks, these are largely useless. Entertaining, yes. Distracting even, since they are the highest contrast and most colorful things on the screen. But useless. The car icon in the exact center of your field of view is also large, colorful and high contrast. Also useless. (Even more useless if you happen to have a red car which hides the brake lights). The car icon is actively hostile at night, since the big bright blob of headlights distracts attention from the speed display. (I recognize this paragraph is irrelevant for Autopilot-capable cars, but this is after all the "Classic Model S" thread.)

The only useful thing in the center of the screen is the digital speedometer, which takes up maybe 10% of that center area. So 90% of the most crucial screen real estate available in the car, the part where the drivers attention goes when it's not on the road, seems to be dedicated to distracting the driver rather than informing him/her.

In the V6 U/I design, at least some of the important information was available easily on the main display: range in the center and highly visible, time of day on the bottom (but small font, difficult to read). Now in V7, range is relegated to the bottom line. Time is only visible on the 17" display (on the far right far away from the driver), the font is too small for those with less than average visual acuity, made worse by the decision to cram a passenger airbag status message underneath.

Meanwhile, the rest of the important information remains scattered to the far corners of the earth.
* Miles to destination? Time to destination? These are at the bottom of the map display in an unreadable font size at low contrast.
* Heating/AC status? No longer visible without bringing up climate page.
* Miles of reserve range at destination? You would think the energy page would be able to show that. But it ignores the display selection for miles range vs. percent charge. Multiply by 2.65 in your head (YMMV).
* Effect of the heat/AC on range? No way to tell.
* Effect of the outside temperature on range? No way to tell.
* Effect of speed on range? Well, I suppose you can change speed, then go to the energy page and wait 10 minutes for the estimated charge at destination to change.

Misuse of screen acreage is pervasive in the U/I.
* The analog clock widget wastes a third of the screen to show two numbers: time and temperature.
* The energy widget uses a third of the screen to paint a colorful graph, but shows only one marginally useful result: Wh/mi, not even the far more useful number: estimated range at this average energy usage.
* The energy page on the 17" needs two sub-pages to deliver only three numbers: average Wh/mi, estimated range, and predicted percent charge at destination.
* The media page has large buttons to select songs from USB or Bluetooth devices, but can't be bothered to wrap the names of long songs to two or three lines in the ample space available.

Might we ask that the energy widget be scrapped and replaced with a text-only "energy status" widget containing the following:
* Battery rated range and percent charge
* Trip miles and time to destination
* Estimated rated miles and percent charge at destination (taking into account altitude, temperature, weather, A/C)
* Outside and inside temperature
* Range reduction because of temperature and A/C usage
* Current time (including time zone), date, and altitude MSL
* All relevant numbers to be color coded yellow, red as they become problematic.

While we're at it, let's make the tire pressure widget more useful:
* Remove the car icon entirely from the speedo screen, transfer all functionality to the widget (it's a bigger area, and can be turned off when annoying)
* Add tire temperatures
* Add lock status (show whether door handles are retracted)
* Show seat belt warnings even when car is "OFF" so driver can inform passengers
* Show all potentially unsafe items: doors, trunks, charge port, pano roof, mirrors
* Any out-of-tolerance conditions color coded yellow or red.

Now we visit the energy page on the 17" display. We can use this to examine scenarios by turning it interactive. Graph for us energy usage and range at destination if:
* Speed were 5/10mph over/under posted speed
* AC/heat were set to a different temperature or turned off
* Road conditions were dry/wet/raining/snowing
* Outside temperature was XXX

I'd like to get your design team in a room with 20 or 30 Tesla owners to talk about how these features are actually used, and about the relative value of usefulness vs. aesthetics.

thanks for doing this.

after reading through all posts in this thread, I am very glad I kept postponing. I will stay on 6.2 indefinitely until Tesla fixes the horrible UI in v7 and restores the common features and displays that were so useful to us that are now gone. also Tesla: please fire anyone who was in charge of making decisions on the v7 software. please send them back over to the Apple graveyard. We don't want them working for Tesla anymore. They are killing your customers.