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Firmware 7.0

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Millionth Autopilot first impressions...

Hot damn.
That stuff is freaky, and impressive. Yes it says "beta" on the tin, which excuses some of the small rough edges (I am filing bug reports and enhancement requests in my head as the miles pile on).
But seriously, I am amazed that I now live in the future, and that I am driving it. Yes, I am still the driver here. If you don't think you are, stop texting and get off my road. :)

Just drove from Folsom SC back to San Francisco using Autopilot 80% of the time. I have to say I feel less tired than I usually would be after the six hours of driving this day had.

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Also, it struggled at night with the tight lanes and sweepers on the SB 80/580 between El Sobrante and the Berkeley area.
And it feels like it is a bit off-center, on the right side of the lanes usually. Or I have a tendency to drive on the left die of the lane myself...
 
A few autopilot quirks I noticed after 300+ miles:

1. If you're on a 2-lane highway and you signal to "change lanes" into the oncoming traffic lane, the car will do it but only if you're in a passing zone. If the car sees a solid yellow center line on your side, it won't budge. Pretty smart, and it means you could pass on a 2-lane road while staying on AP. I wouldn't have the guts to try it though.
2. If you're on the freeway in the right lane passing by the end of an on-ramp, the car will interpret the lane line coming in from the right as the beginning of a curve (apparently) and will push to the far left side of the lane until the right lane line straightens out. I hope they can fix this since the left lane line (which is what the car is tracking) is straight the whole time.
3. When the lane markings are good and the curves are gentle, the car is rock-solid at keeping centered for very long stretches. However, it's amazing how fast a total AP freak-out situation can develop. After 20 or 30 minutes of flawless AP driving, it's not easy to stay vigilant but you'd better be watching!
4. When the lane lines disappear, like in a big intersection, the car often does not go straight for some reason. It will veer in one direction or the other while telling you to take control. Not ideal behavior.
5. As others have noted, when a left turn lane suddenly opens up, the car often darts into it. There's usually a big left turn arrow on the pavement. In theory the car should be able to recognize that and choose the other lane instead.

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I think part of it is him being in Vegas....

Sounds more like Coiled is letting go of the turn stalk when the car is physically halfway to the next lane, but logically, the car doesn't think so yet.
You were right of course. When the lane markings are clear (i.e., paint), the lane-changing behavior is exactly how I wanted and expected it to be.
 
Day 3 of AP: over 550 miles driven because I decided to take a drive to Lake Tahoe and back to look at Fall colors. Yea, I'm that committed. But also, the car drove 95% of the way.

- K

OT:

1. Why would there be fall colors in Nevada? Imported trees? I hate imported trees encroaching on beautiful delicate sempiviron forests.

2. Thank God for rain. We need more, though. Much more.
 
Oh you should be banned for making such a comparison....:wink:

C'mon, that UI is infamous for how bad it is. Talk about sensationalism! :biggrin:

In a country where murder is illegal, the programmer of the Fisher UI should be taken out and hung to death in public. That UI is purely awful. That whole Fishker UI is some sort of mad joke. It is intentionally bad. It absolutely has to be. I hope whoever was in control of that UI project committed suicide already. I'm thinking board members, fuddie duddies, people who don't have cars or computers at home... Inexplicable. Inexcusable. Insane. Like actually insane, not maverick fun called insane like the Tesla. OMG!!!

Edit: to find out how f-k could screw up so bad, I looked them up. They seem like die hard baby boomer corporate type ICE fanatics forced into the modern world squirming and kicking; they even have the moved-to-"California" pedigree (but actually just Southern California, which might as well be Georgia). Everything they did was bad and immoral. Scratched cow hide and termite infested wood paneling? Everything I just read made me want to barf.

Complain as I might about little Tesla nits, they are complaints of love. I never want to see, hear, or think of Fisker again in my life.
 
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Definitely not. :(

Spots I tried weren't even nearly that bad. lol

While I think if it were able to go slower it might do OK, at the same time the single camera setup needs flow to determine depth. I'm sure the minimum speed has something to do with the quality of that data.

Ok. Wk057's above quoted mini review is the last piece of info I needed (started with MarcG and countless others in between). I see two problems here:

1. Tesla didn't put enough hardware into the car. We all know what I mean. Forum members even talk about Autopilot 2.0 hardware as if they're planning on it and Tesla is going to do it. I agree. We're talking about sensors. Tesla got one thing right: the concept of multiple types of input aggregated. They need more sensors that can get more data.

2. Tesla isn't aggressive enough on discerning as much as it possibly can from that data. It ought to have every pixel and its relationship to every other pixel in time, space, correlation with other inputs, etc., be probabilistically quantified for all its possible meanings, each set to a level of probability, and functions on correlative probability and of course confidence and what it can do to ascertain more (move the car or change its speed or shutters or hardware settings to see better, like I do when I drive), and execute.

The main source of inspiration should be a good thought expert who's been in multiple driver safety courses (the types many government bus drivers like me were put in in the 1980s-1990s), who is also an accomplished mathematician, statistician, graphical analyst, hardware electrical engineer and brain neuroscience student, most of which I've done some of in my spare time so I know professionals would have great resumes with actual degrees better than me, sit and think of how really human drivers think when they do it (in truck driving school they taught us to run driving senereos through our head while driving to become better drivers; the thought of thought and how thought thinks naturally is part of that practice). Then they take that inspiration and just add more math to it to take it way beyond that.

I'm basically saying Tesla needs to be more in depth and comprehensive with this assisted and eventual autopilot stuff. (Edit: do I mean autonomous? Isn't autopilot = autonomous?) Humans need two highly evolved sensitive protected eyes to drive half ass ok; how is an unrefined computer going to do it with a single camera and a few short range bumper belly wisker sensors? There just needs to be more. Everything.
 
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Unfortunately you negate your entire post with the single assertion: "Isn't autopilot = autonomous?".

No, it isn't. I believe this point may have been made once or twice before..

The number of armchair experts I've seen post in innumerable threads about what Tesla can and can't do (even when they do get the actual aim right) and what sensors they should or shouldn't have, all inferred from their ad-hoc observations of current performance, is staggering. I did leading edge machine vision research for 13 years and I would never presume to make the sort of declarations I've seen posted by people (ranging from the clearly completely clueless to those who should clearly know better). It's mind boggling.

This isn't meant to be picking on bwa, there have been far worse examples. It just got me over the threshold to remark on it. And a observation is all it is, I have no intention of entering in to further pointless discussion.
 
I think we, armchair experts, got pretty much everything right. Tesla does not have fully autonomous lane changing, it doesn't reliably monitor the next lane and it gets confused by the lack of true depth information (that Youtube clip when Tesla tried to evade a tree shadow). We even guessed correctly that the hardware can't monitor the adjacent lanes.

(and it also might help to note that some of us actually are not unfamiliar with computer vision)
 
Speedometer / power meter should be front and center when I'm driving

Right now in the initial 7.0 software, the button that used to enable or disable TACC doesn't do anything. Why not make that button a toggle between "fully manual" and "AP ready" modes? In "fully manual" mode, TACC and AP are disabled and we get the speedometer / power meter dial from 6.2, or alternatively the IC dial that 7.0 gives to the non-AP cars (with the analog speedometer and power meter, i.e. this: #22). Push the button and it toggles to "AP ready" mode, with the miniature car and sensor data (what AP cars have now). When you're done with AP, hit the button again to get back the analog instruments.

This ^^^^^

I would much prefer to see the speedometer / power meter front and center when I'm driving and have no intention of engaging the autopilot.
 
OT:

1. Why would there be fall colors in Nevada? Imported trees? I hate imported trees encroaching on beautiful delicate sempiviron forests.


Sadly, you are correct. I was on the California side using 88 through Hope Valley, but there were only a couple instances of fall color. There are some things I miss about the East Coast and driving through the Sierras just doesn't even come close ... but that nostalgia is why I do it. I was duped into this road trip by this article:

Best bets for fall foliage in the Bay Area and Northern California - SFGate

... but hey, I got more drive time in a Model S, fuel was free, and the car practically drove itself (from South Lake to Bay Area, it was maybe 99% AP with only a few rescues). It was still quite a beautiful drive.

20151017_143902.jpg


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- K
 
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I've been speed reading through this thread, but I haven't seen that anyone experienced what happened to me this afternoon:

When I updated my 2013 MS software to OS 7.0, my radio kicked on and blasted the last internet music station I was listening to. This unfortunately upset my neighbor (can't believe they can't appreciate the likes of BTO). Luckily I did not update the operating system at 2 AM!

I hope you'll appreciate the serendipity of the song playing given the situation...


Yes, had the exact same thing happen to me on Thursday night. Difference is that my parking spot is in the common garage, underneath my neighbor's house. And she is on the HOA, and is not the type to take that lightly...
Since I launched the update manually at around 10pm, I stuck around until I regained volume control on the steering wheel, which was about 5 minutes into it, after a couple of screen reboots and steering wheel resets. I was able to turn it down to zero, and pause it. Unsure if it kept playing after one of the multiple reboots involved. I am, assuming it did, and yes, I am now looking at how to file bug reports with Tesla.

Super-impressed by Autopilot itself. The way it took us through the esses of a series of lane-shifts in a construction zone on the 80 westbound near Richmond CA with perfect timing was very impressive. And it never slowed down, of course, which I would have naturally done. I let it do this because no-one was around.
 
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I'm basically saying Tesla needs to be more in depth and comprehensive with this assisted and eventual autopilot stuff. (Edit: do I mean autonomous? Isn't autopilot = autonomous?) Humans need two highly evolved sensitive protected eyes to drive half ass ok; how is an unrefined computer going to do it with a single camera and a few short range bumper belly wisker sensors? There just needs to be more. Everything.
It has been stated repeatedly by Tesla, by Elon, and hundreds of times on this forum over the past year that Tesla Autopilot IS NOT "autonomous" driving.
"Autonomous" driving is where the car makes all the driving decisions, and executes them, from the beginning of the drive to the destination without any driver input other than telling the car what the destination location is.
Google's self driving cars can do that in some geographic areas. No car manufacturer has offered autonomous cars for sale at this time.
Tesla Autopilot cannot do autonomous driving and Telsa is very clear about that.
 
This ^^^^^

I would much prefer to see the speedometer / power meter front and center when I'm driving and have no intention of engaging the autopilot.

I emailed a modified version of my original post to Tesla on Friday evening with a request to forward it to the appropriate group; the person processing the email said they would do so. I wonder if Tesla would be more likely to adopt this suggestion if more people asked for it. (I really have no idea.) At least it allows Tesla engineering to (mostly) reuse existing software bits they already have as opposed to coding up entirely new features (...mumble mumble...PM...QA...release engineering...mumble mumble...).

Bruce.
 
Sadly, you are correct. I was on the California side using 88 through Hope Valley, but there were only a couple instances of fall color. There are some things I miss about the East Coast and driving through the Sierras just doesn't even come close ... but that nostalgia is why I do it. I was duped into this road trip by this article:

Best bets for fall foliage in the Bay Area and Northern California - SFGate

... but hey, I got more drive time in a Model S, fuel was free, and the car practically drove itself (from South Lake to Bay Area, it was maybe 99% AP with only a few rescues). It was still quite a beautiful drive.

View attachment 98326

View attachment 98327

- K
Hey K! We met at the Folsom Supercharger. Nice ride again, and nice chatting with you. As you can see from my post from yesterday in this thread, I then used AP most of the way back to the city.
Today, we are going to Half-Moon Bay (via San Mateo SC). Unsure if I'll use it much on the 92. It is a bit tight...
 
This morning for the first time since updating to version 7 I had my regen limited, due to the traction pack being cold. Below is what this looks like now.

V7 Regen limited.jpg



With the car in reverse or drive there is actually an exclamation near the yellow regen indicator as well, but it goes away after just a few seconds. This photo was my attempt at capturing it, after I realized when I had put the car back into park it had gone away. I only realized just now, when I wanted to upload the photo here, that I had failed to capture the exclamation point because I had not been quick enough to do so. You'll have to imagine the exclamation point.

I somehow think this regen limit notification is less noticeable than what we had before. Maybe it's just me. (Edit--The dotted line is yellowish. My camera-phone didn't do a good job of differentiating that color from the white next to it. The exclamation point, when it's there, is also yellow.)

But this reminds me that we really need Tesla to give us the ability to heat the traction pack separately, when on shore power, to avoid having regen limited when we start our drives. I started both a thread on this, and a poll on the topic last February. I'm going to update the thread now, and come back and post pointers to both the thread and the poll. Since Tesla has now given us pack heating for performance reasons in version 7, with the "Max Battery Power" option, perhaps it will be easier to get them to give us the option to heat the battery pack for practical purposes as well.

Edit:

Suggestion for battery pre-heating and charge-end scheduling sent to Tesla

Would you use battery heating if it were available?
 
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I emailed a modified version of my original post to Tesla on Friday evening with a request to forward it to the appropriate group; the person processing the email said they would do so.
Bruce.

By the way, what address did you use? It's never been clear to me how to reach Tesla by email for anything other than service issues – and even for service issues phone seems more reliable.
 
Drove a little over 600 miles since Thursday. Majority of which were autopilot. Did some demos for friends and family last night, which was fun. Car definitely performs auto steer much better at night, as expected.

The car's confusion with lanes that split off in either direction, especially to the left, is a little bothersome. For example, on a four lane divided highway I had a left turn lane come up while I was in the left lane. The car got to it, then jerked the car to the left half-car length or so past the left turn lane. There wasn't an intersection ahead, so no reason for it to not have been able to simply follow the unbroken lines... but it decided that jumping towards the turn lane was the right move, incorrectly.

As mentioned previously it can't take sharp curves without freaking out, but it can take most curves on most normal roads. It does better with slightly tighter curves when there is a vehicle ahead and the TACC distance setting is near the middle of the range. Too close and it doesn't see the curves quickly enough and freaks out. Too far and it loses the car ahead too quickly... and freaks out.

So far all of the interstate driving I've done has been pretty painless. A few caveats include construction zones. While so far the car has done well at following the correct path, it's a little uncomfortable with more cars around in these situations. For example, it recognizes the concrete construction barrier to the left and stays away from it, but it stays very close to the center lane marker regardless of where cars in that lane are, cars that are probably staying close to it as well to avoid their own concrete barrier. I tend to slow and stay more centered in these situations when I'm driving, but the car tends to prefer one side or the other and doesn't stay centered when there are obstacles on both sides, which I found odd. I've taken over a few times in these situations just in case.

My record so far is about 65 miles of interstate auto steer driving with no nags and no hands on the wheel (only because that's the longest interstate stretch I've done so far). I did do change lanes a few times with the auto lane change feature, which may be enough to silence potential timed nags, if there are any, but the car is definitely happy to drive along without nagging for long boring stretches, which is excellent.

At first I thought the nag would be more prominent when there were no other cars around. But last night I drove home at about 1AM, very few cars on the road, and the car rarely had another vehicle ahead in its lane. Still no nags. Very cool.

I'm admittedly still disappointed and irritated that they advertised this feature as if it were basically done and ready over a year ago and that this factored into my purchase decision. It's cool, and works OK, but it doesn't "wow" me enough to justify last year's deception on it. I was hoping it would. I think this is what they should have already had ready to go when and released when they announced it, and a year from then we'd have vastly improved performance, but would have at least had the feature to use when we got our cars. It's been handled very poorly from a marketing and customer service perspective.

At this point, at the very least, Tesla should start the warranty counters on the auto steer related hardware as of Thursday and not as of delivery. I personally got no use out of this hardware for a full 1/3rd of my factory warranty, yet if it breaks at 51k miles I'm technically SOL, even though I've only had use of it for ~35k of those miles. Seems like it'd be the right thing for Tesla to do on this matter. Would probably be a grand gesture if they simply included all autopilot hardware, but I'm not holding my breath on either.
 
...
I somehow think this regen limit notification is less noticeable than what we had before. Maybe it's just me.

But this reminds me that we really need Tesla to give us the ability to heat the traction pack separately, when on shore power, to avoid having regen limited when we start our drives. I started both a thread on this, and a poll on the topic last February. I'm going to update the thread now, and come back and post pointers to both the thread and the poll.

You're totally right, this is much less noticeable.
At a minimum, the dotted arc should become orange colored...and as others mentionned, we need more gradation points!

Of course, also answered your poll on battery pre-heat...a must for us in cold winter areas!

 
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