Apparently it has something to do with the Canadian regulations around vehicle immobilizers. It's not a Tesla decision.
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Apparently it has something to do with the Canadian regulations around vehicle immobilizers. It's not a Tesla decision.
Dborn
Confirmed
Australia is the same as Canada then. Nanny state. Our vehicle design rules are comprehensive and strict.
Yes. It seems this is a case of regulations created for ICE technology being mindlessly applied to EVs and not translating well. Immobilizers are intended to prevent somebody from stealing a car by "hot-wiring" the ignition key-switch. There are far better ways to steal a Tesla if you were so inclined.
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BertL
Active Member
Right. I see no reason why Tesla would add complexity preventing a feature from operating if there were not a very good reason. I can understand staged availability of newer functions like we've seen Tesla do with some new capabilities, but as long as Summon has been generally available in many parts of the world, it seems there must be legal reasons it's not enabled or limited in some locations.
Just wait until even more sophisticated full autonomous driving capabilities are ready for deployment. Here in the US, with State laws as they are, the rules will change as owners cross State lines. It's why e.g. autonomous testing has had to have new laws passed in the few US States where that testing is now taking place. IMHO, it's time for posters and advocates to already be directing their concern where it belongs -- their own country and state legislatures -- not point a finger at mfgrs that have to try to understand and build ways to deal with all the inconsistencies around the globe and even within single countries. It's gonna be a nightmare e.g. here in the US to take a road trip if not all States allow certain features to be available -- imagine having some feature working as you've been driving along, but as you cross a State line, it is turned off (or on) by firmware because the mfgr has to try and enforce the laws of what it makes available, where.
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To the best of my knowledge, every stolen Tesla to date has been stolen by someone who started by acquiring a legitimate key to the vehicle.
dicktump
Member
Actually 8.0 is very much about Autopilot 2.0 hardware because Tesla can't do what it wants with Autopilot 1.0 hardware. The advanced radar processing is not very helpful if you are only processing data from a single, forward-facing radar. AP 2.0 is supposed to have multiple radar units, so enhanced radar processing in 8.0 must be contemplating the additional radar units that are coming "soon".
rog
Member
@Ingineer: Off-topic, but I was always wondering how Tesla enables e.g. Autopilot, the supercharging feature or unlock battery capacity after purchase. Is this something like the car getting a key ("serial number") from the mothership and then enables that feature (like one-time)? Or is the car constantly checking in order to avoid someone tinkering with enabling these features without paying?
How do you know that? The single unit has a field of view such that improving its temporal and spatial resolution through software and creating a point cloud, if possible, would be a big plus for collision avoidance, especially in the high profile cases we've already seen. More HW is always better certainly, but I expect big improvements to the 1.0 suite still. Sure 8.0 is obviously groundwork laying for AP 2.0, but my point was the upcoming, if ever, blog post is not going to be about 2.0 specifically. If they want to recapture the conversation about AP, talking about new hardware the existing fleet can't have won't do it.
Boatguy
Active Member
You make good points, but Tesla and Elon are no different than any other car manufacturer; new features are about selling new cars. The only difference is that Tesla introduces new features rather spasmodically, and other manufacturers do it on a model year basis.
My guess, and we're all guessing, is that 8.0 will throw a bone to AP 1.0 owners with some improvement (e.g., new UI!), but the features/benefits of 8.0 will only be fully realized with AP 2.0 h/w.
Elon's not going to talk about it until he's flushed the AP 1.0 h/w out of the factory, which includes all those cars they built on speculation and are now flogging at discounts. He's already pulled an "Osborne" by hinting at 8.0 which makes any buyer who's studied the company, or read these forums, hold off on their purchase until the other shoe drops. Nobody wants to be the last buyer to take delivery of AP 1.0 h/w.
Possibly, but they can always roll out new software when AP 2.0 is actually here. Right now, I suspect, it will be about the UI as you said and (thinking back to the flaws identified in the fatal crash) improving AP 1.0 to the point that regulators will be satisfied. Elon seemed confident he could squeeze more out of it. Just my 2 cents.
HillCountryFun
Member
While I'm sure a lot of effort is going towards AP 2.0, this twitter thread certainly implies that significant AP improvements can be made to the 1.0 AP Hardware (sorry, copy and paste didn't work as well as I'd hoped):
- Elon Musk @elonmusk Jul 14
Working on using existing Tesla radar by itself (decoupled from camera) w temporal smoothing to create a coarse point cloud, like lidar
2,441 retweets7,289 likes
Mark @ihavetweets Jul 14
@elonmusk so... stereoscopic radar?
1 retweet7 likes
Elon Musk @elonmusk Jul 14
@ihavetweets effective stereo by comparing data at various points in time while moving
13 retweets156 likes
Erik Smith @erik_smith1 Jul 14
@elonmusk @ihavetweets So SW driven big advances coming with AP and no new hardware needed for existing AP fleet?
2 retweets12 likes
Elon MuskVerified account@elonmusk@erik_smith1 @ihavetweets certainly moderate and maybe big advances w no incremental hardware
That's where I'm at. I don't expect 2.0 software to be ready when 2.0 HW rolls out either.
@HillCountryFun Yes, thank you. That's exactly what I was remembering.
Boatguy
Active Member
I think we're sort of in agreement. With 8.0 we'll get the "moderate" improvements to AP 1.0 as Elon tweeted and is quoted above, and lots of hype about how great 8.1 is going to be with AP 2.0 h/w.
But timing wise, they need to sell the AP 1.0 h/w cars before they freeze the market and everyone is waiting for AP 2.0, which I suspect has already started to happen. I think that's why the blog post went quiet...
But hey, I'm just speculating!
It's possible to enable the features without Tesla's permission, but for ethical reasons I will not do that except for Supercharging on salvage cars where Tesla has disabled it. A lot of salvage cars have had Tesla reach in remotely and alter the cars configuration to block supercharging access. I think this is an ethical violation on Tesla's part, as they are removing a legitimately paid-for feature without asking the owner. I suspect Tesla does this amid safety concerns, so I verify that the car is safe for supercharging before re-enabling this for a salvage car owner.
rog
Member
finallybuying
Member
Fwiw I am definitely waiting for both AP hardware 2.0 and the 100D are available to buy. If I am, I expect many others are too. My guess is by March. My hope is by November.
Shock-On-T
⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️
I chose not to wait for 2.0.
The car is already great and I wanted to start driving. I'll get a new one in 4 or 5 years, with AP 3.0 and 150D
The car is already great and I wanted to start driving. I'll get a new one in 4 or 5 years, with AP 3.0 and 150D