Firmware 8.1 - Autopilot HW2

[john pane]

I have a new S75D with enhanced autopilot and firmware 17.18.50. Starting at about 50 miles, AP features have been enabled occasionally, but it has been hit or miss. Today, with good weather it offered none of the AP features on the same roads I used them on yesterday. Not even the speed limit is shown.

It seems like the car makes a decision whether to offer the features at some point and then (1) if it is offering the features, they fluctuate on and off as road/weather conditions vary; or (2) if has decided not to offer the features they never become available no matter how good the road/weather conditions are. I have tried putting the car into Park to see if it would re-evaluate its decision but it has not.

I am in Pennsylvania, USA.

My questions are:

Is this normal?
Should I expect it to more consistently offer AP features as the car accumulates more mileage?
When the car is not offering AP features, is there anything I can do to understand why?
Is there a way I can reset this to try to get them back?

 

[2Cybers]

No it is not normal. The first thing to try is a "reboot" of the main computer. If this does not solve the problem call Tesla service.

 

[verygreen]

I have a new S75D with enhanced autopilot and firmware 17.18.50. Starting at about 50 miles, AP features have been enabled occasionally, but it has been hit or miss. Today, with good weather it offered none of the AP features on the same roads I used them on yesterday. Not even the speed limit is shown.

It seems like the car makes a decision whether to offer the features at some point and then (1) if it is offering the features, they fluctuate on and off as road/weather conditions vary; or (2) if has decided not to offer the features they never become available no matter how good the road/weather conditions are. I have tried putting the car into Park to see if it would re-evaluate its decision but it has not.

I am in Pennsylvania, USA.

My questions are:

Is this normal?
Should I expect it to more consistently offer AP features as the car accumulates more mileage?
When the car is not offering AP features, is there anything I can do to understand why?
Is there a way I can reset this to try to get them back?

I think I remember when I got my car, it was still "calibrating", but the speed limit was showing.

Now if you don't even have a speed limit showing where as you had full TACC/self driving available before - typically it's a sign of APE/vision software crashing.
There's a failsafe logic in there that if you have 3 crashes in a row (no matter the reason) it enters the indefinite wait to hopefully clear the condition (this is your observation #2 here - why it never offers the autosteer/TACC if it's not available from the start).
About the only way you can exit that is make sure APE computer is turned off, then on the next clean start it would have 3 more tries before giving up again.
The reasons for crashes are multiple from multitude of overheats to just software bugs to improperly installed camera (but I think it does not apply to you on the camera front since it did work before). Every time there's an APE computer crash a report is sent to Tesla and you might have luck asking them what's the matter, I guess.
Barring that, you just need to force APE off, though I do not think there's a user facing control for it (you might try to turn the car off in the menu, I have not verified if it works or not).
Locking the car and removing the keyfob from range, all while NOT plugged into the wall often makes APE to shutdown within 15 minutes,
but not always. Of course you have no UI visibility into when it's on or off too which further complicates the issue.
I observed APE computer to stay up for a few hours if I just casually waked the car and then immediately locked it and went away.
Just placing the car in park is definitely not enough.

I want to add that I had Tesla push a bad "policy" to my car once and the TACC/AP was not available the whole time until I disabled car internet connection and then it started to work (after ape restart). But again - there's no way for a regular customer to have any control over it (other than covering the whole car in tin-foil?), you basically need to root the car if you want to have any sort of control and any sort of extra visibility into what's going on.

 

[john pane]

I think I remember when I got my car, it was still "calibrating", but the speed limit was showing.

Now if you don't even have a speed limit showing where as you had full TACC/self driving available before - typically it's a sign of APE/vision software crashing.
There's a failsafe logic in there that if you have 3 crashes in a row (no matter the reason) it enters the indefinite wait to hopefully clear the condition (this is your observation #2 here - why it never offers the autosteer/TACC if it's not available from the start).
About the only way you can exit that is make sure APE computer is turned off, then on the next clean start it would have 3 more tries before giving up again.
The reasons for crashes are multiple from multitude of overheats to just software bugs to improperly installed camera (but I think it does not apply to you on the camera front since it did work before). Every time there's an APE computer crash a report is sent to Tesla and you might have luck asking them what's the matter, I guess.
Barring that, you just need to force APE off, though I do not think there's a user facing control for it (you might try to turn the car off in the menu, I have not verified if it works or not).
Locking the car and removing the keyfob from range, all while NOT plugged into the wall often makes APE to shutdown within 15 minutes,
but not always. Of course you have no UI visibility into when it's on or off too which further complicates the issue.
I observed APE computer to stay up for a few hours if I just casually waked the car and then immediately locked it and went away.
Just placing the car in park is definitely not enough.

I want to add that I had Tesla push a bad "policy" to my car once and the TACC/AP was not available the whole time until I disabled car internet connection and then it started to work (after ape restart). But again - there's no way for a regular customer to have any control over it (other than covering the whole car in tin-foil?), you basically need to root the car if you want to have any sort of control and any sort of extra visibility into what's going on.

Thanks for this info. After reading this I turned the power off, then took it out for a ride. The AP features were available. I'm not sure if turning the power off did this or it was a random occurrence. I will see if the problem persists.

In this firmware version, in addition to the Auto High Beam not being available, it does not seem like the Lane Departure Warning is working. It did not work in my tests (over 36mph) this evening.

 

[john pane]

I observed APE computer to stay up for a few hours if I just casually waked the car and then immediately locked it and went away.

How do you tell if it stays up?

 

[verygreen]

How do you tell if it stays up?

you need to have the car rooted.
I'll run a test later and let you know for sure.

If your car was parked for some time and not charging (either not plugged in or finished charging because it hit the limit) ape might have turned off by itself already.
So far in my observations APE is always up when the car is actively charging.

Either way this is some solid proof of some APE crashes you are having. Whenever you can get Tesla to tell you what's actually going on - I don't know.

 

[john pane]

Interesting. The problems this morning were after a night plugged into the charger but the actual charging had completed yesterday evening.

As you know, I am a very new owner. If I want to ask Tesla about this, do I contact my closest service center or some central phone/email?

Thanks for your help @verygreen.

 

[verygreen]

Interesting. The problems this morning were after a night plugged into the charger but the actual charging had completed yesterday evening.

As you know, I am a very new owner. If I want to ask Tesla about this, do I contact my closest service center or some central phone/email?

Thanks for your help @verygreen.

I really don't know who to contact at Tesla. Starting with your service center (esp. if you live nearby) is a good first step I think.
My knowledge is from a bit of reverse-engineering my own car, I don't know how they call those parts internally, but basically you want them to check the crash logs of your autopilot computer (ape), not the mcu/cid (the big screen) one nor the gateway. No idea if they have ability to do this at the service centers or even much knowledge of those internals, but they may (or may not) direct you to proper people too.

If you drive to them with a "autopilot disabled" state and then demonstrate to them the reset (via car poweroff - still needs confirming if it really powers off ape as well) clears the condition - that may or may not give your words more credibility (after all more than once we heard them saying to not trust everything on the forums blindly, and I cannot fault them for that).

 

[pilotSteve]

Is it "next week" yet? (referring to Elon's tweet about the 'smooth as silk' new AP2 release). Seems like FW updates has slowed to barely a trickle (per ev-fw tracker). I'm not unhappy with 17.7.4 but..... come on! Maybe "next week" happens in June?????? Arrrrrrgh.

 

[Snowstorm]

Is it "next week" yet? (referring to Elon's tweet about the 'smooth as silk' new AP2 release). Seems like FW updates has slowed to barely a trickle (per ev-fw tracker). I'm not unhappy with 17.7.4 but..... come on! Maybe "next week" happens in June?????? Arrrrrrgh.

I think he said next month...

 

[Robotonoroboto]

I have a new S75D with enhanced autopilot and firmware 17.18.50. Starting at about 50 miles, AP features have been enabled occasionally, but it has been hit or miss. Today, with good weather it offered none of the AP features on the same roads I used them on yesterday. Not even the speed limit is shown.

It seems like the car makes a decision whether to offer the features at some point and then (1) if it is offering the features, they fluctuate on and off as road/weather conditions vary; or (2) if has decided not to offer the features they never become available no matter how good the road/weather conditions are. I have tried putting the car into Park to see if it would re-evaluate its decision but it has not.

I am in Pennsylvania, USA.

My questions are:

Is this normal?
Should I expect it to more consistently offer AP features as the car accumulates more mileage?
When the car is not offering AP features, is there anything I can do to understand why?
Is there a way I can reset this to try to get them back?

From what I understood, firmware 17.18.50 is for HW1. You state you have a new S75D so I assume you'd have HW2? Then it would make sense to have firmware 17.17.4 for example. I've read a few posts that tesla put the wrong firmware on new cars, it sounds like you might be having that issue. Maybe contact someone from Tesla/related to check if this is the issue and if they can push the correct firmware to your car.

 

[Tangible]

I think he said next month...

He did. That gives him till June 30th to deliver, with actual rollout in July. Don't get too excited. The only spec we have is "smooth as silk". AP on local streets may still steer into oncoming traffic, but silkily.

 

[alcibiades]

He did. That gives him till June 30th to deliver, with actual rollout in July. Don't get too excited. The only spec we have is "smooth as silk". AP on local streets may still steer into oncoming traffic, but silkily.

Drove from Chicago to St. Joseph, MI last weekend. 17.17.4's inability to handle long turns on highways without turn-straighten-turn-straighten led to my wife telling me to turn it off. On top of that, we earlier had a moment of "oh *sugar*" as our X randomly swerved left at 70mph on the highway -- while we were in the left lane.

Icing on the cake: St. Joe's supercharger was charging at a whopping 88.

 

[2Cybers]

Drove from Chicago to St. Joseph, MI last weekend. 17.17.4's inability to handle long turns on highways without turn-straighten-turn-straighten led to my wife telling me to turn it off. On top of that, we earlier had a moment of "oh *sugar*" as our X randomly swerved left at 70mph on the highway -- while we were in the left lane.

I understand your frustration.

I took delivery on my first Model S November 6, 2014 -- one of the very first Teslas with HW1 (VIN 58564) It was exciting and really nice to get Traffic Aware Cruise Control which came after steering wheel buzz for leaving one's lane. The other major item I clearly recall was when AutoSteer was turned on. There were a whole lot of posts like your. I even remember during the first couple of weeks seeing a picture of 4 Model S Teslas going north on I-85 with drivers hands through Pano roofs. This was about the time somebody in Netherlands posted a video showing the driver in the backseat.

I took a trip up I-85 myself and and experienced my car decide to take the exit ramp at speed. Yanked the wheel to return to the road and just left AutoSteer off for a couple of months.

I should get my second Model S in the later half of June and I am hoping things will have settled down. But keep in mind we are the drivers and responsible for where our cars go (or don't go).

 

[alcibiades]

I should get my second Model S in the later half of June and I am hoping things will have settled down.

I also hope things settle down in June, which is six months after I took delivery of mine and "EAP is coming in December"-sales pitches.

But keep in mind we are the drivers and responsible for where our cars go (or don't go).

Are you suggesting I didn't keep this in mind?

 

[kort677]

believe it or not the AP system is still a beta and odd things can and will occur. I just returned from a 2k mile trip and had a few ghosts and other odd behavior, this is why auto pilot is a misnomer, I would call is interactive driver's assist with interactive being the operative term.

 

[alcibiades]

I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who isn't aware that HW2 is beta (at best) software.

I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who has had their HW2 car since 2016 who isn't entirely skeptical about its abilities.

If HW2 AP is completely not trustworthy -- "odd things can and will occur" -- then it shouldn't be released. It is unacceptable for it to veer at highway speeds. Even a driver with his hands on the wheel and paying normal attention might not be able to recover. It's no different from blowing a tire... except that the you blow a tire, it's unlikely that the car was merely being whimsical.

Those who throw the platitude that "we are the drivers" might as well be saying "serenity now."

 

[Tangible]

led to my wife telling me to turn it off

I wonder how many of us early-adopter technology lovers have had the experience of our "shotgun" begging us to turn off the system while we try to make excuses for it. That's been my experience, too. I tend to embrace any new technology just for the coolness factor. My wife is no technophobe, but she only likes technology that really helps us to live more safely or conveniently. To her, using AP is a reckless decision. Sadly, I"m coming to agree with her.

 

[Tangible]

I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who isn't aware that HW2 is beta (at best) software.

I agree with the content of your post, but the "beta" language really bothers me.

When a system is in beta, it is distributed to a select group of volunteers, usually with the stipulation that it not be used for critical data or operations. Tesla has distorted this concept by simply slapping the word "beta" on anything they release into production knowing it's not really ready. And sometimes they don't even bother with that label.

I've been complaining about all of EAP being late, and it certainly is, but I think the greater problem is that it's early - maybe years early. The best thing to do now may be for Tesla to deploy the kind of adaptive cruise control and lane-keeping assistance that other high-end brands offer, and withdraw AP, Summon, and other dangerous technologies from the market until they can come up with a truly usable and safe system. Oh, and refund the money we paid for EAP and FSD.

 

[sdorn]

I agree with the content of your post, but the "beta" language really bothers me.

When a system is in beta, it is distributed to a select group of volunteers, usually with the stipulation that it not be used for critical data or operations. Tesla has distorted this concept by simply slapping the word "beta" on anything they release into production knowing it's not really ready. And sometimes they don't even bother with that label.

I've been complaining about all of EAP being late, and it certainly is, but I think the greater problem is that it's early - maybe years early. The best thing to do now may be for Tesla to deploy the kind of adaptive cruise control and lane-keeping assistance that other high-end brands offer, and withdraw AP, Summon, and other dangerous technologies from the market until they can come up with a truly usable and safe system. Oh, and refund the money we paid for EAP and FSD.

In their defense, they do disable Autosteer and Summon by default. You have to manually enable those after clicking through disclaimers regarding their safety. I personally prefer being able to try out new technologies like this, even when they are not 100% ready for public consumption. It is fun. I agree that their marketing doesn't align with the actual capabilities of the system, but I think that is the biggest problem. If they were just honest in the current capabilities of the system rather than trying to sell people features that don't work yet it would be much better.

Also, Summon works perfectly for me other than sometimes stopping when it doesn't need to (which is preferable to not stopping when it does need to). I use it almost every day to pull into and out of my garage, and I really like it. Sure, it won't come pick me up from a parking lot, but the current level of functionality is neither dangerous nor unusable.