First P85D adopters stuck in black hole

[AMN]

I am going to bet they sold between 1,500 and 2,000 P85Ds in North America. I can't imagine how they can deliver them in 2 weeks with Xmas in the middle and people traveling. Even Santa couldn't pull this off. And I believe in Santa. Still do!
I am also making a big assumption that all of those Recaro seats have arrived this weekend and Elon and Franz and Jerome are personally installing and autographing them all night for "early adopters". :-D

 

[raptorweb]

I think I am in the same boat as a few others here, if my delivery is yet this year I will take it and be happy with it. I will be a bit disappointed that I will likely not get the heated steering wheel but it was never promised so I can't really be mad. If my delivery gets pushed from the 27th to any day in 2015 I will cancel and reorder, if I am waiting for the tax credit either way I might as well get a car that I know is going to be well made and have all the new features. I will have gone 1.5 months without a car already by the 27th so the extra 2ish months wont be all that bad and if needed I can always rent a car.

I was one of the people that waited about 3 years for my first Model S, the communication wasn't great at that time but I still think it was over all better than this time around. I echo what most people on here are saying that they could put a good amount of people at peace by just letting us know what the issues are, proactively telling us would be icing on the cake.

 

[gpetti]

Just been skimming through the new posts but will read in more depth tomorrow.
Some points to add to the consensus:
i want to make clear that my DS has been pretty good or at least as good as he could be with zero information. While I suspect that some DSs may have embellished or created information where none existed, and some people have had worse experiences, I agree that by and large they have a job that in these situations must be painfully difficult.
I want to continue to clarify that the amount of time here is only a small part of the issue. I waited much longer for my first car but it was part of a well understood, fair process. The issue here is that for this particular group of supposed early adopters we are seeing the production line start moving again and other peoples cars start moving towards actual completion and delivery. I'm not clear if some of these might have Recaro seats or not but at least they are getting their cars delivered. To put it another way the process does not appear to be fair so the delays are all the more difficult and thus we expect/need to know what is going on.
This leads me to the Frankenstein car scenario. I'm increasingly of the opinion that this will be the case. The only solid piece of information that my DS was able to get (this is a guy that says nothing unless he has real information) was that my car would NOT have the Recaro seats. Until now nobody has asked me about taking the older seats but he wasn't asking me if I would take delivery with the older seats, just telling me that as and when the car would finally ship, it would not have the new seats. Assuming this is an accurate interpretation by my DS, it means the seats are not the holdup. Distressingly this shoots holes in Jerome's explanation, but more importantly it suggests they are working on something else for which they may also be waiting for parts.
To summarize my points and points made by others, I believe we have the worst of two worlds. All the disadvantages of being an early adopter (QA trouble, missing features) and we are not getting the cars early either. In fact we are apparently getting our cars later than other owners who will have a normal build car and at least the heated steering that we know of.
With all this in mind, I have ordered a new car which (thanks to the amount of time I've wasted on this one) may not arrive until late February. I'm hoping that Tesla will help to expedite this and the local sales manager and my DS seem to be doing their best to help.
I'm waiting to find out if my deposit will be transferred but it seems hopeful. Of course I'm lucky to have the luxury of doing this as I don't have to have the car in 2014, but after spending over 60 days of excitedly waiting for my new car - probably more than 20 since I gave up my old car - I'm feeling deeply disappointed as I'm thinking most people on the forum would be. I'm sure I'll be deliriously happy when I finally get my car and obviously I'm thankful for that but like most of you here I'm very frustrated right now.

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Incidentally, I think they might be relieved that some of us are reordering.

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If people are reordering due to the stupid heated steering wheel, Tesla needs to just retrofit it for anyone who wants it. That has to cost less than building two cars...

I asked my DS to confirm again whether Ts was retrofittable or not. He was told categorically no. I had also asked if this was a policy position or a technical reality but they did not respond to that question.

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Batches are fine, except mine has been "In Production" for 22 days now.

I'm thinking a factory worker decided to just not bring my car back from testing...

Just to remind you most of us are in the same boat, ie around 20 days or more in production.

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This is my current dashboard. My trade in is still on there, despite the fact that I haven't had the car for weeks, and my first P85d is still there until they move my deposit to the new order. Nice fleet.
View attachment 65962T

 

[gpetti]

Same boat as you all. Ordered the first chance available. Production 11/24. Stuck in the black hole. Never received the email from Jerome. Get zero information from my DS. Keep being told the 17th looks doable but no firm commitment which leaves me to believe something was/is seriously wrong with my car. Tired of seeing people start production days or week(s) after I started finish before me. Just want to know WHATS GOING ON!

Im going to email Jerome and let him know I don't appreciate being kept in the dark. Does anyone mind if I copy some of your posts above (without username) to further demonstrate there is a growing group of us. I won't do that if you all see that as a problem.

Tired of this

I was also going to mail Jerome and maybe at least summarize common concerns, the number of posters etc. feel free to quote any of mine.

 

[NorthShore]

Woohoo! After "being built" since 11/25 my P85D is finally be prepped for delivery! Now, it just needs to cross 2500 of open ocean!

 

[LetsGoFast]

Woohoo! After "being built" since 11/25 my P85D is finally be prepped for delivery! Now, it just needs to cross 2500 of open ocean!

That's a promising development. I think you are the first of the original group to make that switch.

 

[Auzie]

I work in the Bay Area and do handle some shipping related tasks and I can speak to the truth that there have been some recent shipping delays here (and also in the LA area). You are looking at delay that can be weeks, not just days. Plus the recent storm didn't help (I know for sure it affected air freight). Here's an article about some of it:
http://www.businessinsider.com/r-us-west-coast-port-backups-delay-apparel-bobbleheads-fries-2014-12

And to address those talking about "no communication" from Tesla, (again judging from experience from my own job) a lot of times sales reps don't really get specific information about delays even if they push for higher-ups to find out. Usually the most specific they can get is that it is a quality control issue at the factory (for example), but they can't tell you which part, how long it would take to fix it, or what measures are being done to address it. It's only by jumping directly to a top level executive like Jerome that it's possible to find out such details.

Stopcrazyapp hints at likely reasons for the delays. There could be other reasons as well. There could be few disruptions in a supply chain or in a manufacturing process or both. That happens on a tightly run manufacturing site with low inventories. One shipment delay and voila - there is a black hole.

Tesla team is most likely frantically trying to sort out the problem. The specific information demanded by customers may not be available yet. This could be the most likely reason for ‘poor communication’ or ‘no communication’.

If wrong timing is given, that would likely exacerbate the problem.

It is sad and painful to read about people’s frustration about relatively small delays. That frustration is exacerbated with a lack of information. The situation is familiar to me but from the opposite perspective. Someone is always on the receiving end of having to provide information demanded by various stakeholders who do have a right to such information. The team on the receiving end is most likely frantically trying to establish what the hell happened and how to overcome the problem(s) in the quickest possible time, with minimal damage to stakeholders.

Problem with ‘poor communication’ seems to be exacerbated when too granular information is provided to stakeholders who then feel entitled to it and demand it. If the expected delivery were specified as a period rather than a specific date, right until the car is ready for pick up, the sense of entitlement to a specific date would be unlikely to arise. No need to set traps for self.

Undoubtedly some customers are ‘having poor experience’ and some might decide to cancel, fair enough. Customers who do not cancel will be rewarded with getting the best car there is, very soon.

My heart goes out to Jerome and his team as they are likely having hellish experience at the moment.

 

[LetsGoFast]

Tesla team is most likely frantically trying to sort out the problem. The specific information demanded by customers may not be available yet. This could be the most likely reason for ‘poor communication’ or ‘no communication’.

I have some sympathy for this idea, but a lack of data doesn't really justify "no communication." They could easily enough say they have a delay and due to factors beyond their control they can't predict when it will resolve. It also appears that information passes effectively from some locations and no so much from others. Some of my complaints are really pretty basic -- promising to call me back on a particular day and not doing it, not answering email, etc.

Problem with ‘poor communication’ seems to be exacerbated when too granular information is provided to stakeholders who then feel entitled to it and demand it. If the expected delivery were specified as a period rather than a specific date, right until the car is ready for pick up, the sense of entitlement to a specific date would be unlikely to arise. No need to set traps for self.

I do think about that sometimes. In the absence of the "My Tesla" page and this forum, I would have just been told that my car would arrive in "late December" and I'd be fat, dumb and happy waiting for that day -- blissfully ignorant of all this drama.

Customers who do not cancel will be rewarded with getting the best car there is, very soon.

I very much look forward to that day and ultimately I'd rather have my car manufacturer excel at engineering than customer service. Both would be OK, too.

 

[NOLA_Mike]

Day 21 of "In Production" with no definitive answers as to when I can expect delivery nor any specifics as to why the indefinite delay of my particular car. It's particularly fun to watch others take delivery that ordered later

For the first time during this process I am thinking about canceling my order with the possibility of reordering sometime next year (if at all) when a "normal" production cycle is established for the Ds. We are 2 weeks away from the end of 2014 and if it turns out I can't take the tax credits this year (both federal and state) then I'm not nearly as excited about taking delivery of my potentially "frankenstein" car on January 1st or later. Louisiana currently has a $13,600 alternative fuel tax credit specific to 85 kWh Model Ss that I fear may not be renewed in 2015 since the state is looking for ways to "close their budget gap".

I use the term "frankenstein" because that's how I view it when Tesla can't build the car as ordered and has to start substituting parts and pieces just to get it out the door and make delivery. I don't like the idea of not getting the seats I ordered and having to have them retrofitted at a later date. I'm 365 miles from the nearest Service Center (Houston) and will likely have to have the car trucked back and forth to accomplish this task.

If I don't get some concrete information and a firm delivery date set by early this week I think I'm done for this round...

Mike

 

[Jgdixon]

I am in the same boat. My car has been stuck in production and my DS who is a great guy and easy to get hold of doesn't have any definitive information. My Sig is sold and I am organizing the details to ship it to the states. I am not as upset as most. If I get a heated steering wheel that's a bonus. I think the issue is we normally are overly informed. My delivery date is the 22nd which is over a week away. I doubt I will have my car by then but there is still a possibility by year end. The dashboard (that I check multiple times daily) and this forum have caused all this anxiety. People who don't frequent either forum and don't check their dashboard daily are likely oblivious and still happily waiting for their car. Another thought, there must be a couple of hundred cars sitting on a lot waiting for new seats etc. Can you imagine the logistics nightmare of those cars all in one place and having to get them individually when needed to retrofit the seats? Anyhow I haven't been offered the different seat choices yet although my DS has heard that, but it's not official for him yet. Hang in there everyone!

 

[randompersonx]

Another thought, there must be a couple of hundred cars sitting on a lot waiting for new seats etc. Can you imagine the logistics nightmare of those cars all in one place and having to get them individually when needed to retrofit the seats?

This I think is exactly the issue ... Let's say a miracle happened and an unlimited supply of corrected seats magically appeared tomorrow. They would need to retrofit ~500 cars and get them out the door no later than Wednesday to get a reliable delivery date before 12/31 -- and this would still place a huge amount of pressure on DS's which will be expected in some cases to get a couple of trucks with 30 cars all at once, wash and inspect all of them and get them delivered between 12/29 and 12/31.

There's simply no way that all of us will be get a delivery before 12/31 with new seats, and if our cars currently either have no seats, or defective seats -- there is no way we will get them at all, since putting any seat (old or new) will take time.


The flipside for Tesla -- I'm sure it will be no problem to sell P85D's right off of the lot. Plenty of people would impulse buy them right now. From the tone of this thread, I expect there to be a number of cancellations in the next week, so that will perhaps help satisfy a different set of buyers.

I still haven't decided what I will do, but I am certainly not happy with the current situation. A hastily-thrown-together franken-car is not what I was expecting -- and it seems that anyone who ordered a few days after me and had their car built 12/6 or later will get a better product -- and certainly a better experience.

 

[wk057]

My DS replied to me late last night with no additional info other than that we can discuss options "if it gets closer to the end of the year without a resolve" and that he is hearing that some P85Ds are being ready for delivery...

The former does not inspire confidence...

However, as previously mentioned, he is good about responding to me in general and I can't fault him for that. I fault whoever above him is not providing him with intel to distribute.

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Actually, a semi-plausible explanation may actually be that our black hole cars were built with the defective seats, while others after it were built with random other seats after the issue were found. That would make it simpler for them to do something with those cars and not ours...

IMO, though, they could throw a replacement set of seats in the trunk (or otherwise ship them with the car), ship them to the delivery/service center, and just have them swap them out before delivery and solve the issue. I'll install them myself if needed.

All speculation.

 

[flyboyzz1]

Can anyone share Jerome's email address. I want to ask him to explain why if the seats are the problem some folks have flown through the production line while others are sitting. Just doesn't make sense.

 

[randompersonx]

Actually, a semi-plausible explanation may actually be that our black hole cars were built with the defective seats, while others after it were built with random other seats after the issue were found. That would make it simpler for them to do something with those cars and not ours...

IMO, though, they could throw a replacement set of seats in the trunk (or otherwise ship them with the car), ship them to the delivery/service center, and just have them swap them out before delivery and solve the issue. I'll install them myself if needed.

All speculation.

Certainly possible that the new cars have 'random other seats'.

I don't think they could simply ship new seats inside the car -- seats are big, and would not fit in any reasonable way inside the car (certainly not a set of fronts and rears).

As far as shipping separately -- Could you imagine the logistics of a DS receiving 30 cars without seats, and 30 sets seats on 12/29 and being told "deliver all of these by 12/31"?
Would you want one of those cars?

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Can anyone share Jerome's email address. I want to ask him to explain why if the seats are the problem some folks have flown through the production line while others are sitting. Just doesn't make sense.

Private Messaged.

Didn't want to post it in here to avoid feeding spambots.

The format is first initial last name @ telsamotors.com

So if your name was George Washington, it would be GWashington@

 

[AlMc]

Can anyone share Jerome's email address. I want to ask him to explain why if the seats are the problem some folks have flown through the production line while others are sitting. Just doesn't make sense.

I will PM you with his address. But my explanation (may be wrong), is that once whatever the problem(s) were with the early production was identified (airbags in seats). Those cars were put aside for individual fixing and the assembly line pushed to max out production. The affected cars are slowly being retrofitted while the production line is firing along.


*****RandompersonX beat me to it. He is correct that the mods do not like the emails of individuals shared in the open forum***********

 

[Jgdixon]

Guys I also want to address this 'Frankenstein' car thing. Come on, first of all it has been mentioned before that Tesla and other manufacturers sometimes have to do adjustments on cars after they are produced. The average consumer would never know. In addition I have to trust that whether it is done at the factory or your SC the job would be done right. I really can't imagine that any Tesla manager from Elon down would risk haphazard retrofits, especially with all the controversy up to now.
I do agree that communication could be better, but those of us who have been around a long time are used to it. I for one am trying to be sympathetic and understand what a complex issue this really is.

 

[dsm363]

I feel the same. Companies should be treating early adopters very well. I owned a Roadster, a Sig P85, ordered my P85D the first day... In prod since Nov 26th... And now I wait. I'm going on vacation in Florida on the 28th and not even sure I'll have my car by then. So getting a 2014 car in 2015 with unknown build history.

Tesla doesn't have model years though. By unknown build history do you mean they're sending you a potentially defective car?

 

[LaTache]

Can anyone share Jerome's email address. I want to ask him to explain why if the seats are the problem some folks have flown through the production line while others are sitting. Just doesn't make sense.

Just an FYI, I am also stuck in production for my P85D since 11/25 and ordered the "old" leather seats with the red piping (no longer an option), not the new generation seats (regret this now). Thus I think this goes well beyond a seat issue. No one at Tesla can give me a good explanation so far. Was pushed last week from December to Late December and got the Jerome blast email.

 

[dsm363]

Stopcrazyapp hints at likely reasons for the delays. There could be other reasons as well. There could be few disruptions in a supply chain or in a manufacturing process or both. That happens on a tightly run manufacturing site with low inventories. One shipment delay and voila - there is a black hole.

Tesla team is most likely frantically trying to sort out the problem. The specific information demanded by customers may not be available yet. This could be the most likely reason for ‘poor communication’ or ‘no communication’.

If wrong timing is given, that would likely exacerbate the problem.

It is sad and painful to read about people’s frustration about relatively small delays. That frustration is exacerbated with a lack of information. The situation is familiar to me but from the opposite perspective. Someone is always on the receiving end of having to provide information demanded by various stakeholders who do have a right to such information. The team on the receiving end is most likely frantically trying to establish what the hell happened and how to overcome the problem(s) in the quickest possible time, with minimal damage to stakeholders.

Problem with ‘poor communication’ seems to be exacerbated when too granular information is provided to stakeholders who then feel entitled to it and demand it. If the expected delivery were specified as a period rather than a specific date, right until the car is ready for pick up, the sense of entitlement to a specific date would be unlikely to arise. No need to set traps for self.

Undoubtedly some customers are ‘having poor experience’ and some might decide to cancel, fair enough. Customers who do not cancel will be rewarded with getting the best car there is, very soon.

My heart goes out to Jerome and his team as they are likely having hellish experience at the moment.

Great summary. I'm sure the delivery specialists are trying their best as well as everyone at the factory. Problems with manufacturing something new are probably almost a given. My guess is some delivery specialists instead of saying 'I don't know' when people demand answers (rightly so) say what they think is going on. For those that were told heated steering wheels were not an option that could have been a very true statement at the time. They were not told that would be an option in 2 weeks. Why Tesla didn't notify everyone that it was coming soon and give them the option to put their car back in the line I don't know. I understand everyone's frustrations but once the car arrives a lot of these feelings will likely go away. People at Tesla work long hours and believe in what they do from what I've seen over a few years with dealing with them so I don't there is malicious intent to deceive people as some suggest. For those that want to cancel, Tesla should simply use their car as service vehicles and allow them to re-enter production assuming that number isn't into the hundreds of cars.

 

[bonaire]

Something to think about.

The P85D introduction is ahead of their targeted desire to produce it. Elon and JB were in Oslo in early 2014 and during an interview, indicated a dual-drive Model S would come out about the same time as the Model X. People complaining about getting it now with a few week delay are actually getting it, what, 6-months ahead of when Model X comes out? Is there any way to look at this in a positive light?

One thing I think should have been done is that the factory should first have produced the Model S orders from mid to late summer first and then put up the D orders for "15Q1 delivery" and worked forward from there. Trying to shoe-horn a large burst of P85D orders into the end of the year has somewhat backfired in a smooth delivery structure. While messing with the initial run of P85D, people ordering RWD versions from August to October were still waiting on cars. Since Tesla already has their deposits and desires to buy - they risked alienating these folks in favor of higher-margin cars to close the year out. Do you think maybe they needed the burst in repeat sales (tradeins and all that) to grow backlog again?