Fisker ocean - UK forum

[Sean.]

I can't find the site now where I got that graph, but there is some source info at the bottom that might help with a search. Sorry.

But I think that BEV growth could easily be 145% over the past few years. When I got my model 3 back in 2019 it was a rare sight and people used to wave at each other. Now they are ten a penny. That wouldn't have happened without significant growth. And that's ignoring all the other EVs on the road.

I found it. It’s out of date by st least 6-12 months data wise. Hardly up to date or credible.

New data shows charge point growth but 'uneven' spread of devices

The number of public charge points increased in the first quarter of this year, up 8% compared to the start of January, according to new data from the DfT.

www.fleetnews.co.uk

 

[Sean.]

And when I plug in how long have I got to faff about telling the APP what stall I'm at, and initiating the charge and, as a "not often" 3rd party charge user, hanging around to make sure it ramps up and so on?

The irony is that’s precisely what you need to do to use open Tesla chargers in a non-Tesla, unless it happens to be at a V4 site and you have the option to use contactless.

I was having a thread convo with a chap over at SpeakEV who maintained that Tesla SuC’s had a greater likelihood of a single point of failure due to the app not working, vis a vis when other CPOs that had contactless as another means of payment. Then another person chimed in with their own experiences of the Tesla app failing them (payment related) so I sort of get that line of thinking.

Moving out from the ‘comfort blanket’ of the Tesla network has made me re-evaluate other charging options for the first time in probably 5 or more years. It’s not as bad as some of the press likes to make out to sell newspapers.

 

[Sean.]

It’s really not that much of a hardship. I’ve used InstaVolt, Ionity, Fastned, Geniepoint, Mer, MFG, Gridserve and Pod Point at one point or another and they’ve been absolutely fine.

I’ve found getting a receipt or invoices from them a bigger challenge than actually getting hooked up and charging

Fastned are great. The 300 kW Alpitronics are amazing. IONITY is good but can be very over-subscribed at times. They are planning a massive expansion this year via the Village Hotels deal.

IONITY is the only network that offers proper P&C too for me - although Fastned do their own version, Autocharge, which doesn’t work with all makes/models as it relies on the car having a unique MAC address. Not all do.

Geniepoint I’ll avoid as it’s not much better than it was in 2017/18. Instavolt is very expensive and not performant to match.

Mer is fine and MFG have probably built more ultrafast hubs than anyone last year. Absolutely going balls to the wall. Another provider using the excellent Alpitronic charge points.

I really only like Gridsere for their (non-MSA) installs - Norwich and Braintree so far. Excellent layouts. Good hub designs. Prices not so much

 

[spdpsba]

Fastned are great. The 300 kW Alpitronics are amazing. IONITY is good but can be very over-subscribed at times. They are planning a massive expansion this year via the Village Hotels deal.

IONITY is the only network that offers proper P&C too for me - although Fastned do their own version, Autocharge, which doesn’t work with all makes/models as it relies on the car having a unique MAC address. Not all do.

Geniepoint I’ll avoid as it’s not much better than it was in 2017/18. Instavolt is very expensive and not performant to match.

Mer is fine and MFG have probably built more ultrafast hubs than anyone last year. Absolutely going balls to the wall. Another provider using the excellent Alpitronic charge points.

I really only like Gridsere for their (non-MSA) installs - Norwich and Braintree so far. Excellent layouts. Good hub designs. Prices not so much

Sounds Greek and Latin to me. Even to you, once upon a time when you needed just the car and phone. That’s an excellent homework - what life teaches you quickly when you have a non-Tesla. . You are like a walking talking EV guru.

Moving out from the ‘comfort blanket’ of the Tesla network has made me re-evaluate other charging options for the first time in probably 5 or more years. It’s not as bad as some of the press likes to make out to sell newspapers.

 

[Leejmoff]

There are obviously lots of options for other chargers, but in all honesty. Most are over priced and extremely slow or hard to use on a one off visit. Those ones that are rapid, are seriously expensive and not worth using, unless of course you have no option on a long trip.

I live near Gridserve Braintree, while its a great setup, but once again.....very expensive unless you use Tesla SC.

I had the unfortunate problem this year where I had to find a third party charger, and it was a nightmare, I hated it. I had to download various apps, then pay money on account on one, then use the charger only to find out the advertised speed in the app was wrong. I complained and just got a "sorry".

Its definitely made me think twice about moving from Tesla for a while, unless all SC sites are opened up.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I had to find a third party charger, and it was a nightmare, I hated it. I had to download various apps, then pay money on account on one, then use the charger only to find out the advertised speed in the app was wrong. I complained and just got a "sorry".

Mirrors my experience, but add to that that using the Map, on the 3rd party's APP, their charger was nowhere near where the "Map Pin" was. So I had to use Plugshare to actually find where the charger was!

... you couldn't make this stuff up ...

Its definitely made me think twice about moving from Tesla for a while, unless all SC sites are opened up.

Although even then, as @Sean. has said, SC behave same as 3rd party sites when using the APP to connect. Maybe predictable kW and decent up-time for stalls ... but still the "wait to connect" conundrum (seems likely to me that Tesla will be "early" with providing plug-and-charge to all marques (they could start a e.g. 2-minute charge on plug in, and terminate it if you don't manage to connect with the APP in that time.

 

[pdk42]

When my wife still had her ID3 we did a few trips in that - for shits and giggles. We never actually got stranded, but we had several trips that took 2+ hours longer than they should and on one occasion we arrived at a "rapid charger of last resort" that didn't work so ended up spending four hours on a PodPoint 7kW charger in a Co-op car park. Maybe things are better now, but by comparison I've never had that sort of agro with Tesla chargers.

 

[Leejmoff]

When my wife still had her ID3 we did a few trips in that - for shits and giggles. We never actually got stranded, but we had several trips that took 2+ hours longer than they should and on one occasion we arrived at a "rapid charger of last resort" that didn't work so ended up spending four hours on a PodPoint 7kW charger in a Co-op car park. Maybe things are better now, but by comparison I've never had that sort of agro with Tesla chargers.

very similar to my stopry at Christmas, yes I had the option of rapid chargers at 85p pkw, but I'm not paying that.

 

[Medved_77]

Not good news:

Fisker stock crashes 35% in face of potential bankruptcy By Investing.com

Fisker stock crashes 35% in face of potential bankruptcy

www.investing.com

 

[UrbanSplash]

Was always going to happen. EV market having a huge wobble.

 

[FastLaneJB]

Was always going to happen. EV market having a huge wobble.

I think Fisker were in more trouble than most. They had a shocking review from MKBHD and also Carwow wasn't too found. Loads of issues with them, their version of vampire drain is more like a vampire blood orgy.

 

[qwickshot]

The MKBHD review wasn’t that bad, he clearly liked a lot about the car but it was obviously released with software which just isn’t in a fit state to be unleashed on the general public.

 

[Foucault]

I don’t think it’s a couple of bad reviews, the demand just isn’t there. Last yeat Magna, who make the Fisker Ocean, produced 10,142 cars with about 4,700 finding homes. That’s not much demand and a lot of unsold stock. For context Tesla sold 1.2 million model Ys last year. Even before today’s announcement it was a risky purchase with Fisker cutting staff, dropping the Pear development and saying they were going to run out of money. It could be particularly bad for current owners as the software may never be finished (well as finished as car software gets these days).

 

[FastLaneJB]

The MKBHD review wasn’t that bad, he clearly liked a lot about the car but it was obviously released with software which just isn’t in a fit state to be unleashed on the general public.

I think the thumbnail of something like “Worst car I’ve ever reviewed” wasn’t all that helpful.

Also releasing something that isn’t in a fit state for the general public is something they just shouldn’t have done. You’d think it might have been more cost effective to not start making the cars before the software was ready to go with it. Yes you’ve got to pull the trigger at some point but they did it too early.

 

[FastLaneJB]

I don’t think it’s a couple of bad reviews, the demand just isn’t there. Last yeat Magna, who make the Fisker Ocean, produced 10,142 cars with about 4,700 finding homes. That’s not much demand and a lot of unsold stock. For context Tesla sold 1.2 million model Ys last year. Even before today’s announcement it was a risky purchase with Fisker cutting staff, dropping the Pear development and saying they were going to run out of money. It could be particularly bad for current owners as the software may never be finished (well as finished as car software gets these days).

The demand isn’t there for a lot of EV’s at the moment but they might have had more demand if the car had better reviews is all I’m saying.

Also they shipped it right into peak high interest rates and slowing customer demand. Probably if they waited a year or so interest rates could be dropping, plus the software would have been more likely ready to ship. You’d surely be burning less money in that state than building and shipping cars for a loss even for the ones you could shift.

 

[Foucault]

Both the Marques Brownlee and Carwow reviews, which are the most critical, were three weeks ago so won’t have impacted the lack of demand in 2023. I agree that releasing an unfinished car in a period of higher interest rates and waning EV demand won’t have helped but unfortunately we’ve been able to see the likely demise of Fisker mk2 for some time.

 

[KennethS]

Hopefully someone buys them out of bankruptcy or steps in before it to keep Fisker operating. It doesn't bode well for anyone who has purchased one of their cars.

 

[WllXM]

Not the first epic failure for Fisker... Practically a trademark now.

Too bad because on paper the cars aren't bad. Just terrible execution.

 

[UrbanSplash]

I’m sure Henrik would retain his fortune.

 

[FastLaneJB]

Both the Marques Brownlee and Carwow reviews, which are the most critical, were three weeks ago so won’t have impacted the lack of demand in 2023. I agree that releasing an unfinished car in a period of higher interest rates and waning EV demand won’t have helped but unfortunately we’ve been able to see the likely demise of Fisker mk2 for some time.

Right but it's not the lack of sales that folds the company, there's lots of EV companies that only make a loss, almost all of them. It's the lack of investor confidence and access to more funding that sinks the business. We'll no doubt never know but investors might not want to invest in a car company that loses money + some recent reviews say have the worst EV on the market.

I've always thought this working in Tech where some startup will come along and disrupt an existing business model. Partly they might have a new take on how to do this but also they at least previously seemed to have access to almost unending amounts of funding. It's hard for an existing business to compete with a business that doesn't need to make a profit at least for many years so can undercut you because you do need to make a profit.

It's pretty much the same situation as why they want to put restrictions around Chinese cars, they get government funding to keep costs down. How can existing legacy car makers, even Tesla these days which need to show a profit compete with these companies? It's not a level playing field.