frustration with ABC news editorial use of clickbait

[nigwil]

This article I consider makes some valid points about the eventual need to re-jig public policy and government regulation to figure out new ways to pay for our road infrastructure, fair enough.

But the title of the article and the URL wording is unfair and to me is deliberately inflammatory, maligns the technology and unfairly singles out one company:

Electric cars are breaking our roads, here's how

"Electric cars are breaking our roads, here's how"

If you feel similarly please let ABC News know through the regular channels:

Feedback - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

[Blue heaven]

This article I consider makes some valid points about the eventual need to re-jig public policy and government regulation to figure out new ways to pay for our road infrastructure, fair enough.

But the title of the article and the URL wording is unfair and to me is deliberately inflammatory, maligns the technology and unfairly singles out one company:

Electric cars are breaking our roads, here's how

"Electric cars are breaking our roads, here's how"

If you feel similarly please let ABC News know through the regular channels:

Feedback - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

That was a planned press release after this "shock" announcement from Josh Freydenberg on Friday-http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/disruption-from-electric-car-revolution-will-rival-the-introduction-of-the-iphone-josh-frydenberg-20180112-h0hajv.html Jackson Gothe-Snape is a Canberra political journalist, politics is dirty game played by mischievous people.

 

[strykeroz]

Ah Josh. His work always reads to me like a student's assignment hurridly put together and mostly lifted from the Widipedia page.

 

[raynewman]

Ah Josh. His work always reads to me like a student's assignment hurridly put together and mostly lifted from the Widipedia page.

What ever he is; he is totally useless.

 

[WhiteStar]

Welcome to the new, 'fair & balanced' ABC. So now, not only are the right-wing governments trying in vain to slow the advance of electric vehicles on Australian roads by not offering incentives of any kind whatsoever, they'll now be demanding some type of fuel excise replacement tax for EV's. Only in Australia.

 

[raynewman]

Welcome to the new, 'fair & balanced' ABC. So now, not only are the right-wing governments trying in vain to slow the advance of electric vehicles on Australian roads by not offering incentives of any kind whatsoever, they'll now be demanding some type of fuel excise replacement tax for EV's. Only in Australia.

Actually, there are some US states doing the same thing. Don't think our lot is that inventive.

 

[WhiteStar]

Actually, there are some US states doing the same thing. Don't think our lot is that inventive.

Right but people in those states can still claim the Section 30B EV Credit...a federal incentive of up to $7,500...at least for now. We get $0.00...at least for now.

 

[EcoCloudIT]

At the moment I would dare say the average Electric car driver (especially Tesla drivers) pay a crap load more tax in actual dollars than the average driver of an ICE does.

 

[Jays200]

It ain't that hard. Like the rest of Australia's problems the solution has already been found elsewhere in the world. Why not look in our own backyard, like, say, NZ? Our brothers and sisters across the ditch have a system of sorts that could easily be adapted to our "unique" circumstances in Australia.

Pay Road User Charges (RUC) at an AA Centre | AA New Zealand

Sounds like our pollies are up against it anyway because the average Aussie battler lives in the boonies and only has one option of how to travel miles to work. Let's tax the little guy (not).

We've (Tesla owners) all made conscious decisions to by our cars. Fran and I acknowledged we were going to pay a s***load of state and federal tax but hey, we live in this awesome country called Australia and it doesn't come for free. Plus, subsidy free and EV's still make sense so dino juice guzzling fossil cars are going the way of the dinosaur sooner rather than later.

I wish they (the ABC) had latched on to Rob's "taxing the polluters" as a carbon tax and revived that old chestnut.

Just hope they don't start torching Teslas like they're doing in Amsterdam ATM

Tesla vehicles were set on fire in apparent act of anti-EV vandalism

BTW, nice one Robby

 

[strykeroz]

If the government needs to replace the revenue it would otherwise get from the fuel excise because that's the way road funding has been done in the past, why not engage in a grownup discussion about it? Firstly the ground is laid out that EVs are inevitable, but then rather than proposing changes that will need to be made, they pitch this like it is a threat to our way of lives that needs to be defended against somehow.

Similarly about coal. The answer isn't to pretend that industry has a lengthy future - they aren't doing any of the folks in coalmining regions any favours by pretending it does either.

Their contempt for the intelligence of their public is on display here. But then they know we elected them, so they may have a strong point.

 

[jbcarioca]

Actually, there are some US states doing the same thing. Don't think our lot is that inventive.

Who came first with "coal first". IIRC, your lot did that one. Certainly the US is working had to decline to their level.
Still the US Luddites lost when they could not stop renewal of BEV, solar and wind incentives.
I must say that the US State of Wyoming is doing everything it can to match the OZ magic fire. Those 'stable geniuses' in Wyoming passed a law prohibiting utilities from using wind power to generate electricity.

Before you claim too much idiocy for your politicians you do need to remember that the University of Melbourne Energy Institute does continue to provide an intelligent voice and the already successful example of SA just might begin to diminish the power of the Luddites.

OK, I admit it. My glass is always half full.

 

[baillies]

Another article about this

Three years after Tesla visit, Turnbull may finally act on EVs

Some of my thoughts (rant)
- if they remove LCT from EV’s they would need to return the paid LCT to existing owners as there cars would depreciate. I think it is now easier not to change this but would be better if they did. New leaf, model 3, etc should be under the threshold moving forward.
- adding more transit lanes (carpool) lanes to major roads and exempting EV’s would be good but Libaral governments may get hammered for pandering to the rich by Labour and not sure Labour would introduce this.(bipartisan???) I think this is the best policy to increase EV sales.
- allow EV’s to pay less for parking somehow... (works in Norway), maybe introduce charging bays with free 30min parking whilst charging?
- we need to introduce a cents per km (flat or even better by vehicle weight) road tax as part of the registration to replace the fuel excise. I think this should be as a new tax starting at say 1c then increasing to 4c over a 5-10 year period. The existing fuel excise should not be removed as this should be considered a health tax for the current unpayed health costs of fuel pollution. Fuel excise exemptions should be removed in line with this becoming a health tax but the cents per km ideally should only be charged for on road use. Maybe difficult to do anything other than follow the existing exhemption certification of the fuel excise. At least it may remove the dodging by filling diesel lancruisers with excise exempt diesel. Maybe GPS data logging on all exempt vehicles?
- stamp duty should be removed from all EV registration (wasn’t it supposed to be removed with the GST anyway? )

 

[Chuq]

we need to introduce a cents per km (flat or even better by vehicle weight) road tax as part of the registration to replace the fuel excise.

I don't agree with this. How would it be collected? How would it be checked and policed?

The fuel excise was easy, it's an extra tax on fuel. But someone more knowledgeable than me could probably answer the question, why is there one in the first place? What was so special about petrol that it deserved an extra tax?

There is a misunderstanding out there that all the money from the fuel excise goes the roads, and if the excise revenue goes down so does the road maintenance. The money to maintain roads could come from any other tax. Why not just increase GST to 10.5% (or 11%, or 12%, or whatever it would need to be to match the fuel excise revenue) or increase some other tax by a fraction of a percent?

One of the core tenets of tax is that you can use tax to encourage or discourage certain behaviour. Instead of all this per-km measuring and monitoring, why not just increase the fuel excise by another cent per litre?

People whinge that it costs too much? Good! If they think those electric car drivers have it all to easy they are welcome to join us!

 

[Chuq]

What was so special about petrol that it deserved an extra tax?

Answering my own question here... well well, very interesting. My renewable EV kilometres should not be taxed under this logic!

 

[Jays200]

I don't agree with this. How would it be collected? How would it be checked and policed?

Road user charges (RUC) | NZ Transport Agency

 

[Chuq]

Road user charges (RUC) | NZ Transport Agency

That shows that someone else has done it, I'm still not sure how it is the best way of doing it.

 

[Blue heaven]

I don't agree with this. How would it be collected? How would it be checked and policed?

The fuel excise was easy, it's an extra tax on fuel. But someone more knowledgeable than me could probably answer the question, why is there one in the first place? What was so special about petrol that it deserved an extra tax?

There is a misunderstanding out there that all the money from the fuel excise goes the roads, and if the excise revenue goes down so does the road maintenance. The money to maintain roads could come from any other tax. Why not just increase GST to 10.5% (or 11%, or 12%, or whatever it would need to be to match the fuel excise revenue) or increase some other tax by a fraction of a percent?

One of the core tenets of tax is that you can use tax to encourage or discourage certain behaviour. Instead of all this per-km measuring and monitoring, why not just increase the fuel excise by another cent per litre?

People whinge that it costs too much? Good! If they think those electric car drivers have it all to easy they are welcome to join us!

Point 3- "socially damaging" - every accident on a poorly funded and maintained road has the potential to cause death or serious injury, this is socially damaging to the passengers, family members and the emergency services attending, every hour extra per week drivers sit in congested traffic is potentially "socially damaging" that's time not spent with family, not able to attend kids sporting events or missing kids bedtime, every week in any random Australian state hundreds of thousand of hours of people's lives are wasted sitting in congested traffic, this is "socially damaging.
The change to a RUC will not happen for a few years yet but considering it will work out to about $600 for an average 15,000kms per year it's SFA for a driver of petrol, diesel or electric.
You also say people whinge it cost too much, and they should join us? A very large part of the population are very keen to join the electric car revolution, unfortunately most of them require a car that can travel more than 140kms on a charge, they also don't have the spare $100,000+ to purchase the only currently sold in this country that is capable of that, give em a chance.

 

[Chuq]

Point 3- "socially damaging" - every accident on a poorly funded and maintained road has the potential to cause death or serious injury, this is socially damaging to the passengers, family members and the emergency services attending, every hour extra per week drivers sit in congested traffic is potentially "socially damaging" that's time not spent with family, not able to attend kids sporting events or missing kids bedtime, every week in any random Australian state hundreds of thousand of hours of people's lives are wasted sitting in congested traffic, this is "socially damaging.

Yes, so roads need to be maintained of course - out of the combined tax revenue. We don't have a "special" form of tax collection purely for schools or hospitals. All the revenue comes in, then it is all spent in different areas. It doesn't need a new system, that is costly to administer, monitor and police.

The change to a RUC will not happen for a few years yet but considering it will work out to about $600 for an average 15,000kms per year it's SFA for a driver of petrol, diesel or electric.

SFA? That's pretty much half of what I am "saving" in fuel costs (Gone from $2000 to $600 a year, approx 10-12,000 km). Which is fine once the vehicle costs have reached parity, but if the government wants to use tax to encourage one activity and discourage another, EVs drivers (and potential EV drivers) don't need another kick in the wallet.

You also say people whinge it cost too much, and they should join us? A very large part of the population are very keen to join the electric car revolution, unfortunately most of them require a car that can travel more than 140kms on a charge, they also don't have the spare $100,000+ to purchase the only currently sold in this country that is capable of that, give em a chance.

But by the time EV marketshare is big enough for the fuel excise revenue to actually be a problem, there will be plenty of options available. You'll always find those people saying that "those Tesla owners are scamming us" (even though they paid $20k+ in LCT)

 

[EcoCloudIT]

@Chuq is correct, and on top of his last point (LCT) as I have said earlier I bet the average Tesla driver pays a lot more personal tax than the average ICE driver....fair crack of the whip as they say....

 

[Blue heaven]

@Chuq is correct, and on top of his last point (LCT) as I have said earlier I bet the average Tesla driver pays a lot more personal tax than the average ICE driver....fair crack of the whip as they say....

I guess all those ICE owners employed as police, nurses, emergency workers, teachers, childcare workers, disability workers and other Australians who may not pay as much tax as me and likely can't afford the current base model Tesla X or S even though they'd probably love to own a viable electric vehicles should have a good hard look at themselves.
I have 2 daughters that work part time to pay their way through uni, they pay less tax than the average Tesla driver, I will be sure to pass on your thoughts over dinner tonight.