FSD 12.3 today - utter failure!

[Georgesb2]

An update after a week of driving FSD "Supervised" 30 day demo V 12.3.3:
It's overall horrible here in my town in rural Florida. Perhaps I have more situations that FSD cannot handle than others who only praise FSD.
While I'm amazed at traffic complexity it does handle, I will not drive with FSD and will not purchase. It failed here way too many times. It's going to take some time before I'm comfortable and not a nervous wreck sitting in this car with FSD driving it.

Keep this in mind, ONE egregious error wipes out all the great driving. Safety has to be paramount. And a comfortable, confident ride also is critically important. But FSD isn't ready for this demo release to the public at large.

Issues, roughly in order of concern:

1. Drives like a drunk teenager who got his first fast car he borrowed or stole. Way, way, way too much acceleration, way too frequently! But especially getting into a roadway from a stop sign. "Drive it Like You Stole It!" Should be the FSD motto.
2. Drives absurdly fast towards stopped traffic. I had to disengage, certain of a collision more than once. Frankly it scares me and I have a Performance for a reason, I like to occasionally go quite fast in turns and in acceleration, but this is dangerous and unsettling.
3. FSD cannot follow navigation under a number of circumstances and navigation is wrong in others when FSD does follow it. I live in a town where it's necessary to do U turns on the main roadway. I have to take a U turn every time I leave my neighborhood. FSD will not do it! Will not! It's so bad that twice it stopped in the highway in the left turn lane, which is also where the U turn is. Then it stops right there in front of the turn but will not take it. I had to take over for fear of being rear ended in the passing lane while stopped. Another time I let it do it's thing. Navigation said left lane for left turn to the U turn, but FSD put the car in the right lane and it turned right down a dead end dirt road opposing the U turn, and just kept going. I had to disengage. Another instance navigation told FSD to turn a block too early and drive in an pointless loop, nowhere near the destination.
4. Weaves too aggressively, even on chill. It does it so quickly that I cannot "Supervise". I do not have time to check for clearance, it's already made the lane switch and I'm just trying to catch my breath.
5. Drives / makes decisions to GO fast, way too quickly. I did not expect it to take off so fast. I never got a chance to "look both ways". Impossible to "Supervise".
6. Does a strange deceleration "dance" when approaching stopped traffic. It's not "human-like". I get quite nervous about the car behind me. It hits the brakes hard, then strangely kind of accelerates, then kind of creeps to a stop. Why can't that all be smooth?
7. I have it in one of the speed limit settings where it should drive "naturally" but it will go "speeding ticket" fast, over the speed limit. There's a HUGE warning sign here, if you go over 10 over the 45 MPH speed limit, you'll be heavily fined. There's no way to slow it down from 60 MPH without disengagement. The thumbwheel has no impact on speed.
8. I find it tricky to auto park. Sometimes it does, other times I don't get the screen to turn it on.
9. Summons is weird. The one time I tried it left me not wanting to try it again. Once I asked it via Summon to drive out of the garage, suddenly it turned the wheel and was heading into the garage door jam on the driver's side. I stopped it!
10. Does a weird dance when it decides to change lanes. It puts on the directional, moves slightly over the line, then moves back into the lane, then changes lanes. That's terribly confusing to me and to other drivers around me.
11. I don't know how this will be a Robo Taxi when it drives aimlessly once it gets into the destination parking lot. Why can't it pick a spot and properly park?
12. It needlessly weaves when it would be fine just to chill. I have it set on chill but it doesn't chill. It doesn't understand I'm only 2 miles from home, no need to be passing and weaving. Just stay in the right lane, as the turn is up ahead.
13. Hangs out in the passing lane for no reason at all. This is bad human behavior. I have to tell it to get over to the right lane. It seems to prefer this and does it quite often.


This is far from ready.
Although in some complex traffic situations I think it is safer than most humans, that good performance is all wiped away by serious errors, speed, acceleration and braking frensy issues. It makes me very concerned in the car while FSD is driving. It makes me highly on edge. FSD was released as a demo too soon. It's not ready for this. Tesla made a mistake.

 

[ewoodrick]

I am running the 30 day trial version. I believe they are all the same release, 12.3.3. My car is on Version V11.1(2024.3.10).
This is running on a 2022 Model 3 Performance.

Being on FSD 11, then all I can say is that FSD 12 changes the rules.

I was in my driveway, definitely no lines and engaged FSD and it took me to the restaurant and navigated the parking lot (again no lines) until in front of the restaurant.

 

[SkyDog]

...
13. Hangs out in the passing lane for no reason at all. This is bad human behavior. I have to tell it to get over to the right lane. It seems to prefer this and does it quite often.

I've noticed that too. I thought that if I put the right turn signal on, that it would move the lane on the right, but it shuts my turn signal off and stays in the left lane.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I've noticed that too. I thought that if I put the right turn signal on, that it would move the lane on the right, but it shuts my turn signal off and stays in the left lane.

I almost always end up using the "minimize lane changes" feature when using FSD 12.3.3 - it's still lane change happy same as 11.4.9 was - if not moreso/worse so far. We're taking a 140 mile each way long weekend trip starting tomorrow afternoon during which I plan to utilize FSD 12.3.3 as much as I can just to see how it does on one of our weekend getaway trips. I am really hoping that Tesla offers some kind of discounted extension much less than $199/month for FSD after the conclusion of the 30 day trial. As much as it's fun to play around with this tech - as long as it's nagging me as much as it currently does - IMHO as long as it remains an L2 ADAS system it'll never be worth the money Tesla seems to think it's worth.

 

[Georgesb2]

I almost always end up using the "minimize lane changes" feature when using FSD 12.3.3 - it's still lane change happy same as 11.4.9 was - if not moreso/worse so far. We're taking a 140 mile each way long weekend trip starting tomorrow afternoon during which I plan to utilize FSD 12.3.3 as much as I can just to see how it does on one of our weekend getaway trips. I am really hoping that Tesla offers some kind of discounted extension much less than $199/month for FSD after the conclusion of the 30 day trial. As much as it's fun to play around with this tech - as long as it's nagging me as much as it currently does - IMHO as long as it remains an L2 ADAS system it'll never be worth the money Tesla seems to think it's worth.

Totally agree!

 

[mikepo]

An update after a week of driving FSD "Supervised" 30 day demo V 12.3.3:
It's overall horrible here in my town in rural Florida. Perhaps I have more situations that FSD cannot handle than others who only praise FSD.
While I'm amazed at traffic complexity it does handle, I will not drive with FSD and will not purchase. It failed here way too many times. It's going to take some time before I'm comfortable and not a nervous wreck sitting in this car with FSD driving it.

Keep this in mind, ONE egregious error wipes out all the great driving. Safety has to be paramount. And a comfortable, confident ride also is critically important. But FSD isn't ready for this demo release to the public at large.

Issues, roughly in order of concern:

1. Drives like a drunk teenager who got his first fast car he borrowed or stole. Way, way, way too much acceleration, way too frequently! But especially getting into a roadway from a stop sign. "Drive it Like You Stole It!" Should be the FSD motto.
2. Drives absurdly fast towards stopped traffic. I had to disengage, certain of a collision more than once. Frankly it scares me and I have a Performance for a reason, I like to occasionally go quite fast in turns and in acceleration, but this is dangerous and unsettling.
7. I have it in one of the speed limit settings where it should drive "naturally" but it will go "speeding ticket" fast, over the speed limit. There's a HUGE warning sign here, if you go over 10 over the 45 MPH speed limit, you'll be heavily fined. There's no way to slow it down from 60 MPH without disengagement. The thumbwheel has no impact on speed.

I agree completely with 1 and 2; far from polished driving. My insurance monitor agrees also...sometimes docks me for braking and acceleration.

I also thought that speed control didn't work, but I've discovered that it sometimes does work, but takes a LOOOONG time to change speeds...up to 30 seconds. Hard to tell it's working.

 

[ewoodrick]

I've noticed that too. I thought that if I put the right turn signal on, that it would move the lane on the right, but it shuts my turn signal off and stays in the left lane.

And it should, but look at the FSD lane change settings, you may not have it enabled. Or you may have to provide torque to the wheel.

 

[TS.42]

I am having the exact same experience as the OP and I just got FSD today. Terrible disappointment after seeing all of the MarsCatalog and DirtyTesla paid reviewers singing such praises. I decided to renew it for the first time in a year. Ehhh wrong answer. Wrong idea.

 

[SO16]

I am having the exact same experience as the OP and I just got FSD today. Terrible disappointment after seeing all of the MarsCatalog and DirtyTesla paid reviewers singing such praises. I decided to renew it for the first time in a year. Ehhh wrong answer. Wrong idea.

WholeMars isn’t the best resource but Farzad had issues.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785297526138048650

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785496733754994705

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785832183480885643

 

[ewoodrick]

OMG same here just posted v12.3 so bad

1. Car too close to right lane even almost hitting the wall very scary I can't even use it

2. Speed I was able to increase speed and car will speed up now it says closer to speed limit

What the heck Tesla 11.3 was good never had a problem now this frap

1) That's a perception issue. Was the car left of the right line? How far was the wall from the right line? 1-2 ft?
2) The new speed control can be turned off, it's really a different thing than FSD

 

[saj070]

1) That's a perception issue. Was the car left of the right line? How far was the wall from the right line? 1-2 ft?
2) The new speed control can be turned off, it's really a different thing than FSD

Even with 12.3.6
Nice update city shame after recalibrating cameras still hogging right lane to close for my comfort

This is not perception i would say less than 12 inche even clearly you can see off centerd

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The new speed control can be turned off, it's really a different thing than FSD

Incorrect. The new speed control cannot be disabled. Only the automatic setting of the set speed offset to 50% over the detected limit can be disabled (when disabled, you can manually set offset to up to 30% over the detected limit).

Common misconception, easily disproven. Just another myth.

On the freeway the behavior is somewhat more palatable with v11 in charge, so you get 5/10/15% in ASSO and whatever you want in manual mode. And the car goes to the set speed if possible.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

We are currently using the car more and FSDV12.3.3 more because we are away from home.

With ASSO off, most of the time FSD is fine (settings are average and 0% offset). This is Canada and if we are going the speed limit people don't try and run us off the road, they just pass us. As well, since this is Canada and away from the blessed SC corridor we need to go the speed limit in order to preserve our charge since our destination only offers 110v charging.

The exception to FSD speed being fine is on highway 60 which makes up 2 hours of our drive. Every time the car sees the highway number sign, it slows from 80kph to 60kph. So FSD is unusable. At least AP accepts the override, so that was used for the 2 hours of the trip and was acceptable with close monitoring (and remembering the car would not stop for lights or signs, nor make the turns automatically.)

BTW, neither FSD nor AP can handle the right lane ending and merge left. FSD tried to run us into the jersey barriers at the end of the lane (as the highway went from control access, divided to undivided, two lane) and AP looked like it would manage but then threw up the TAKE OVER red steering wheel and alarms at the end of a passing lane. In both cases, the driver had hands on the wheel and pulled the car out of the ADAS to keep it on the road. In both cases, the car got only one shot at the task, from then on the driver forced an early merge into the left lane (which was trickier with FSD which refused to remain there.)

 

[ewoodrick]

Incorrect. The new speed control cannot be disabled. Only the automatic setting of the set speed offset to 50% over the detected limit can be disabled (when disabled, you can manually set offset to up to 30% over the detected limit).

Common misconception, easily disproven. Just another myth.

On the freeway the behavior is somewhat more palatable with v11 in charge, so you get 5/10/15% in ASSO and whatever you want in manual mode. And the car goes to the set speed if possible.

The why does one of my cars have it on and the other has it off?

I guess it may be your misunderstanding of the feature that may be the problem. Automatic Speed Control automatically sets the speeds at which the car is going to go. No max speed is shown on the screen. You can't really roll the speed up or down.
With Automatic Speed Control off, the Max speed is shown and you can roll the speed up and down.

I have a number of roads that have a low speed limit, one that is lower than most people drive it. With Speed Control on, the car happily exceeds the speed limit as a normal driver would. With Speed Control off, the car will only go the % specified over the speed limit.
Easily seen, because at a limit of 25 mph, the car will only go 28 mph unless you roll it up.
With the new speed control on, it will go 45 mph.

Speed control gets disabled when V11 kicks in.

 

[ewoodrick]

Even with 12.3.6
Nice update city shame after recalibrating cameras still hogging right lane to close for my comfort

This is not perception i would say less than 12 inche even clearly you can see off centerd

Some people drive that close normally. It's far from being dangerous.
There's a fair number of people who have complained that FSD 11 and early drive in the middle and not near the right, and how unsafe that is.

Hopefully in a release or two, it will get back into the middle.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Automatic Speed Control automatically sets the speeds at which the car is going to go

So does manual set speed offset mode - it ALSO automatically sets the speed. Up to the cap.

And it is NOT called Automatic Speed Control. It is called Automatic Set Speed Offset, a key distinction - because this is its function, and this is how it differs from Manual Set Speed Offset.

I have a number of roads that have a low speed limit, one that is lower than most people drive it. With Speed Control on, the car happily exceeds the speed limit as a normal driver would. With Speed Control off, the car will only go the % specified over the speed limit.
Easily seen, because at a limit of 25 mph, the car will only go 28 mph unless you roll it up.
With the new speed control on, it will go 45 mph.

Yes, that is how it works. But the only difference is the cap.

You said the “speed control can be turned off. “ This is incorrect. You have two choices:

1) Automatic Set Speed Offset. 50% over the detected limit. It cannot be adjusted and honored (it can be adjusted but it is ignored).
2) Manual Set Speed Offset. Can be set how you want and adjusted, as you say.

But in BOTH cases the new speed control is in effect. ONLY the set speed offset is different.

This “automatic speed control,” active in BOTH settings, is VERY different than v11.

It’s a common point of confusion.

 

[ewoodrick]

The why does one of my cars have it on and the other has it off?

@AlanSubie4Life has disagreed with m

So does manual set speed offset mode - it ALSO automatically sets the speed. Up to the cap.

And it is NOT called Automatic Speed Control. It is called Automatic Set Speed Offset, a key distinction - because this is its function.

Yes, that is how it works. But the only difference is the cap.

You said the “speed control can be turned off. “ This is incorrect. You have two choices:

1) Automatic Set Speed Offset. 50% over the detected limit.
2) Manual Set Speed Offset. Can be set how you want and adjusted as you say.

But in BOTH cases the new speed control is in effect. ONLY the set speed offset is different.

This “automatic speed control,” active in BOTH settings, is VERY different than v11.

It’s a common point of confusion.

Can you show me a screen or information that backs up your hypothesis? It's certainly not what I've seen in my cars.

And in case you couldn't do the math, when going 45 in a 25 mph zone, that's a LOT more than 50%.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

And in case you couldn't do the math, when going 45 in a 25 mph zone, that's a LOT more than 50%.

It's relative to the detected limit. You'd have to show a picture with the speed at 45mph (more than transiently) in a detected 25mph zone. This can happen transiently, of course, when going from a 35mph to a 25mph, for example. But that is inconsequential.

Can you show me a screen or information that backs up your hypothesis? It's certainly not what I've seen in my cars.

Yep! Note there is nothing wrong with the Automatic Set Speed Offset description: it "allows Autopilot to drive at a speed that it determines is most natural." But what they don't mention is that Manual mode works the same way! They don't have to include the other verbiage because the owner has to actively set the cap speed higher than the speed limit in order to get speeds higher than the speed limit. So they don't need the special verbiage. But the function is the same.

Glad I could help clarify! You'll find in your cars the modes work the same way, with the exception that you can dial in your maximum speed in Manual mode (I definitely prefer this mode because it gives a lot of flexibility). But both provide Automatic speed control, meaning they "allow Autopilot to drive at the speed that it determines is most natural."

 

[ewoodrick]

It's relative to the detected limit. You'd have to show a picture with the speed at 45mph (more than transiently) in a detected 25mph zone. This can happen transiently, of course, when going from a 35mph to a 25mph, for example. But that is inconsequential.

Yep! Note there is nothing wrong with the Automatic Set Speed Offset description: it "allows Autopilot to drive at a speed that it determines is most natural." But what they don't mention is that Manual mode works the same way! They don't have to include the other verbiage because the owner has to actively set the cap speed higher than the speed limit in order to get speeds higher than the speed limit. So they don't need the special verbiage. But the function is the same.

Glad I could help clarify! You'll find in your cars the modes work the same way, with the exception that you can dial in your maximum speed in Manual mode (I definitely prefer this mode because it gives a lot of flexibility). But both provide Automatic speed control, meaning they "allow Autopilot to drive at the speed that it determines is most natural."

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I'm sorry, but you seem to be interpreting this far differently than is obvious to me.
First, I don't see "50" anywhere in the messages.

My 45 was explicitly in an area that showed a 25 mph Speed Limit in the car. That's how I knew it.

Why does it tend to drive slower with the Automatic Set Speed on at speeds over 45 mph than with it off? I've got a stretch near my house that my wife's car goes 55 with it off, my car only goes 45-50 with it on.

Manual doesn't work that way. It ONLY goes up to the set speed and doesn't go faster.

My cars, with one on, one off, drive very differently. That same section of road that with it on it drives fast, it drives faster than with it off and the speed limit rolled up.

It's a change from a code-based behavior to an AI based behavior. And it's obvious from the speeds that it drives.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

First, I don't see "50" anywhere in the messages.

Swap it to manual mode on the fly. QED.

(And yes, I had both hands off the wheel! Momentarily.)

My 45 was explicitly in an area that showed a 25 mph Speed Limit in the car. That's how I knew it.

You’d have to post a picture and video showing sustained speed and the detected speed. 38mph should be the max. In general it is 50% over.

I've got a stretch near my house that my wife's car goes 55 with it off, my car only goes 45-50 with it on.

You’d have to use the same vehicle. I’ve never noticed any difference when swapping on the fly.

My cars, with one on, one off, drive very differently. That same section of road that with it on it drives fast, it drives faster than with it off and the speed limit rolled up.

I'd suggest setting your manual offset to +30% and then compare. Obviously if the car gets to that +30% it's going to go faster with ASSO, unless you roll the manual limit up further.

Manual doesn't work that way. It ONLY goes up to the set speed and doesn't go faster.

It works the same way. You just can’t see the limit. Swap to manual mode on the fly without disengaging. It’ll have the same set speed offset and the behavior won’t change. A different set speed offset invalidates the comparison. Neither mode will go faster than the speed offset limit and (this is an unrelated point) in extreme cases won’t even go the set speed offset limit if you accelerate up to it. (For example 67 or 70 in a 45 it will not maintain in either mode; it’ll drop back to 55-60 regardless of how high you dial the speed up, depending on the road characteristics.)

The main point I am making is that when the car is traveling well below the set speed offset limit, which is normally the case, it doesn’t matter what mode you’re in. That’s where the behavior matters, which people talk about so much.