FSD 11.4.4 Runs Red Light

[dgatwood]

I just saw a huge regression in the hands-on-wheel detection behavior. With no change in behavior, I got a barrage of nags one right after the next over about a one-minute period, culminating in an FSD strike. My hands were on the wheel the whole time, and I responded to every nag that I saw or heard. I have no idea what sort of software bug caused it to give me an FSD strike and shout "Take Over Immediately" in the middle of the freeway at 65 MPH, but the timing of it and the resulting confusion also caused me to miss an exit, which cost me about ten minutes, not to mention putting me at significantly elevated risk of having an accident because of the sudden lack of automation.

This new aggressive lockout behavior is DANGEROUS, and Tesla should be sued over it. I'm filing a NHTSA complaint now.

Needless to say, I'm not impressed by 11.4.4 at all. Compared with previous releases, this is s**t.

 

[zoomer0056]

in the middle of the freeway at 65 MPH

Can you provide more details about the road, the weather, sun position, the traffic, your position on the highway, your attentiveness . . .

 

[dgatwood]

Can you provide more details about the road, the weather, sun position, the traffic, your position on the highway, your attentiveness . . .

I was attentive to the road (and have no camera either way). Perfect weather, medium traffic, mid-afternoon sun, second lane from the right.

 

[rlsd]

Running FSD 11.4.4. I'm in lane #2 of two lanes turning left at a light. The intersection is not square, more of a 120 degree turn to the right.

FSD stops for the light as expected. The opposing northbound traffic left turn signal turns green. FSD decides to proceed into opposing traffic. Didn't get a chance to look at the MCU. GoogleMaps is here, TeslaCam is here. Of course, I intervened.

It can see the opposing traffic left turn signal but mistakenly thought it was for it. Be very careful when FSD can see opposing traffic lights. Only seems to happen when 1) i'm first at the light, and 2) I'm in the right lane, and 3) opposing (northbound) traffic gets a green turn signal.

View attachment 960612

I am scared when looking at those hanging lights.
This kind of light arrangement should be corrected by NHTSA. They should fine the city 1 million dollars a day.

 

[remontoir3]

Has anyone else experienced situations where Full Self Driving software performed maneuvers that caused damages or injuries, with no time for driver to humanly intervene? It happened to me. Tesla drivers need to be aware that drivers assume all financial liability, even if the damages were caused by the Full Self Driving software, sensors or cameras. You are personally risking damages, injuries and financial liability to test out their software and driving systems. That is not stated in any disclaimer by Tesla. The software and sensors are not very reliable and to claim otherwise is false advertising that encourages false expectation. I bet far fewer people would use FSD or consider it a worthwhile feature if they knew they're financially responsible for everything the software does.

 

[zoomer0056]

Has anyone else experienced situations where Full Self Driving software performed maneuvers that caused damages or injuries, with no time for driver to humanly intervene? It happened to me. Tesla drivers need to be aware that drivers assume all financial liability, even if the damages were caused by the Full Self Driving software, sensors or cameras. You are personally risking damages, injuries and financial liability to test out their software and driving systems. That is not stated in any disclaimer by Tesla. The software and sensors are not very reliable and to claim otherwise is false advertising that encourages false expectation. I bet far fewer people would use FSD or consider it a worthwhile feature if they knew they're financially responsible for everything the software does.

So, what happened?

 

[brkaus]

Has anyone else experienced situations where Full Self Driving software performed maneuvers that caused damages or injuries, with no time for driver to humanly intervene? It happened to me. Tesla drivers need to be aware that drivers assume all financial liability, even if the damages were caused by the Full Self Driving software, sensors or cameras. You are personally risking damages, injuries and financial liability to test out their software and driving systems. That is not stated in any disclaimer by Tesla. The software and sensors are not very reliable and to claim otherwise is false advertising that encourages false expectation. I bet far fewer people would use FSD or consider it a worthwhile feature if they knew they're financially responsible for everything the software does.

That pretty much says what the “I acknowledge” page says.

 

[enemji]

Running FSD 11.4.4. I'm in lane #2 of two lanes turning left at a light. The intersection is not square, more of a 120 degree turn to the right.

FSD stops for the light as expected. The opposing northbound traffic left turn signal turns green. FSD decides to proceed into opposing traffic. Didn't get a chance to look at the MCU. GoogleMaps is here, TeslaCam is here. Of course, I intervened.

It can see the opposing traffic left turn signal but mistakenly thought it was for it. Be very careful when FSD can see opposing traffic lights. Only seems to happen when 1) i'm first at the light, and 2) I'm in the right lane, and 3) opposing (northbound) traffic gets a green turn signal.

View attachment 960612

I remember a long time ago, on a 4 lane intersection, after I took the left turn on a green, I was looking at the red light for the cross traffic ahead of me. I stopped in the middle of the intersection thinking it was red for me . Traffic control engineers are great guys but sometimes they do mess up on the placement of lights.

 

[GBMaryland]

The biggest issue I'm seeing is the FSDb is trying to pass other drivers on the right, but in turn lanes that have a dotted lane marking.

It's driving me nuts. They removed the ability to TURN OFF automatic lane change... and the result is FSDb is trying to kill people / cause an accident.

 

[GBMaryland]

I just saw a huge regression in the hands-on-wheel detection behavior. With no change in behavior, I got a barrage of nags one right after the next over about a one-minute period, culminating in an FSD strike. My hands were on the wheel the whole time, and I responded to every nag that I saw or heard. I have no idea what sort of software bug caused it to give me an FSD strike and shout "Take Over Immediately" in the middle of the freeway at 65 MPH, but the timing of it and the resulting confusion also caused me to miss an exit, which cost me about ten minutes, not to mention putting me at significantly elevated risk of having an accident because of the sudden lack of automation.

This new aggressive lockout behavior is DANGEROUS, and Tesla should be sued over it. I'm filing a NHTSA complaint now.

Needless to say, I'm not impressed by 11.4.4 at all. Compared with previous releases, this is s**t.

I've had multiple situations where the car tells me that I've got one of those hands free defeat devices (which I don't), and the car goes nuts and disabled FSDb. (It happened two times.)

I've ALSO had it tell me that I need to have my hands on he steering wheels, when I actually do!

Lastly, I've also had it do the whole "Take over immediately" thing with no indication of any actual problems, also at highway speeds.

 

[kabin]

Here's a case with plenty of time to stop but FSD keeps going while the UI says it's stopping for traffic light.

 

[GBMaryland]

Russians finally going after Elon? I’ve wondered how long util they start messing with him for the Starlink support of Ukraine….

 

[SidetrackedSue]

Here's a case with plenty of time to stop but FSD keeps going while the UI says it's stopping for traffic light.

The car did well in challenging conditions with narrow roads, pedestrians, and other drivers not following the rules. It certainly did as well as I could have without FSD, except for that red light which then makes me feel that if FSDb can't get things like red lights, it sees and claims to be stopping for, it can't be trusted in any other circumstances no matter how slowly it is going. Getting all the little things right doesn't excuse it from missing out on the big things. Or, excuse its driver from properly paying attention.

Check out around the 11:15 mark where he's using his phone (not hands-free) to text while the car is creeping forward, originally having stopped for a pedestrian who is still there, also using their phone. So the driver is depending on the FSDb which has run a red light just minutes before to handle this situation flawlessly. I love how at the 22:48 mark he says "I'm not distracted driving or anything I'm I literally I can take over anytime" and then, "I'm not uh texting a lot or on the call".

Question: emergency braking won't stop if you are creeping forward into an obstruction that was visible but is no longer visible to the camera. Will FSDb stop if it is in the same situation? This drive certainly had a number of times when, had a toddler broken free and gone in front of the car or a bike fallen into the path of a car, I wondered if the car would have responded.

 

[TK211X]

I have a railroad crossing with a traffic light system right before an intersection that’s on a slightly elevated portion of land. If FSD approaches the red light at speeds greater than 35mph and there is no traffic in front of you, it will plow right through that red light. I think it believes the red light is for the railroad and just ignores it.

 

[kabin]

This drive certainly had a number of times when, had a toddler broken free and gone in front of the car or a bike fallen into the path of a car, I wondered if the car would have responded.

Not normally. There's so much system latency that those cases only turn out well when there's enough time for FSD to respond.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

Not normally. There's so much system latency that those cases only turn out well when there's enough time for FSD to respond.

Fair enough. With an aware driver, they are watching in cases like this and may be able to respond more quickly since they have prioritized their attention to precariously stacked bikes or a toddler on a sidewalk. We don't know if FSD is doing the same, and if so, how.

I'm bemused at drivers posting pictures of damage on their car from driving into posts at slow speed and saying they thought the car wouldn't let them do it. But that video had several places where the car was going very slowly due to conditions almost as crowded as a tight parking situation, with a number of unpredictable actions potentially ready to interfere with the car's path. Since I knew the car itself won't stop ME from driving into an obstruction when I'm creeping along, I wondered if, in FSD there's a higher level of caution or if the the system is just not able to respond.

I went back to see if the 'distance to obstruction' squiggles are present and they aren't. I don't know if they show on my car when in FSD because I don't use FSDb in those conditions, but they do when FSDb is off in my parking garage or driving alongside snowbanks in winter. (I have watched an FSDb driving video where the car drove into the snowbank on a turn, that version of FSDb lost track of them if it ever had seen them.)