FSD attempts to run red light, twice

[Jmolloy3]

I've had FSD for roughly 10 months now. I've tempered my expectations and generally enjoy it more often that not. I've gotten pretty familiar with it's strengths and weakness over that period. However, yesterday I was surprised that it literally lurched into an intersection while waiting at a red light. This happened twice at the same red light. After the first lurch, where I had to stomp on the brakes, I noticed that the UI showed the red light to be blinking, or flashing (the actual light was NOT flashing, it was a solid red). Then it lurched again, and then I just left FSD disabled until we got away from that intersection. Also rebooted the computer, FWIW. Hasn't done it since, but I'm a little freaked out by that anomaly.

Anyone else had this happen?

 

[D Good]

Yes I have had this happen. Only happens occasionally and always at the same intersection. It’s exactly the way you described.

 

[Supcom]

I've had FSD for roughly 10 months now. I've tempered my expectations and generally enjoy it more often that not. I've gotten pretty familiar with it's strengths and weakness over that period. However, yesterday I was surprised that it literally lurched into an intersection while waiting at a red light. This happened twice at the same red light. After the first lurch, where I had to stomp on the brakes, I noticed that the UI showed the red light to be blinking, or flashing (the actual light was NOT flashing, it was a solid red). Then it lurched again, and then I just left FSD disabled until we got away from that intersection. Also rebooted the computer, FWIW. Hasn't done it since, but I'm a little freaked out by that anomaly.

Anyone else had this happen?

Many LED lights are not continuously on and are pulsed at a frequency that is too high for your eyes to discern. Assuming the traffic light is an LED type, if the frequency of the LED pulses was close to the camera frame rate, it's possible that this could happen.

 

[Jmolloy3]

Many LED lights are not continuously on and are pulsed at a frequency that is too high for your eyes to discern. Assuming the traffic light is an LED type, if the frequency of the LED pulses was close to the camera frame rate, it's possible that this could happen.

That makes a lot of sense. Wonder if that's part of the rationale for the camera upgrade in HW4.

 

[240vPlug]

Did you submit a bug report? I would submit that. I would think Tesla would be able to compensate for this. It's blinking too fast for the eye to see it would need to be a slower blink for the human eye to see so Tesla needs to look for slower blink.

 

[EVRider-FL]

Do you have regular FSD or FSD Beta?

 

[ElectricIAC]

Never observed that before. My main gripe is the “Abort, Retry, Fail” logic and going through flashing yellows without the car trying to give you whiplash.

 

[mrcndc]

I have had the same experience. It is rare. But it underscores the need to always be vigilant using FSD.

 

[Knightshade]

Did you submit a bug report? I would submit that.

Do you mean the voice command bug report?

Those aren't actually sent to tesla, so they'd do no good. They just set a bookmark in the local logs and your service center can reference that if you submit a service ticket via the app.

 

[KArnold]

Did you submit a bug report? I would submit that. I would think Tesla would be able to compensate for this. It's blinking too fast for the eye to see it would need to be a slower blink for the human eye to see so Tesla needs to look for slower blink.

There is no way to do so.

 

[KArnold]

Many LED lights are not continuously on and are pulsed at a frequency that is too high for your eyes to discern. Assuming the traffic light is an LED type, if the frequency of the LED pulses was close to the camera frame rate, it's possible that this could happen.

I'm curious as to what, if anything, makes this traffic light unique. Almost all lights around here (central Ohio) are LED-type of lights. I've not observed this behavior. I'm certainly no expert, but perhaps a low-voltage situation at that intersection might cause the pulse to be slightly slower? Or vice versa?

Regardless, another bug to the list to be fixed.

As a side note, it seems it would be very difficult for Tesla to identify this problem without the REPORT button. They know you disengaged at a stop light for some reason but I'm thinking in a case like this it would be very difficult to determine WHY you did so based on the raw data alone. Perhaps you just wanted to look out the window or send a text while stopped at the light and didn't want a strike, so you disabled? This kind of edge case makes me think real FSD is not close.

 

[brkaus]

Did you submit a bug report? I would submit that. I would think Tesla would be able to compensate for this. It's blinking too fast for the eye to see it would need to be a slower blink for the human eye to see so Tesla needs to look for slower blink.

The problem is harmonics. If the blinks of the light are similar to the capture speed of the camera it may simply miss the on (or off) cycle. Of course this is all speculation, but I have seen it too.

But, as an example, if you were to have someone to briefly flash lights in a room exactly every 2 seconds. Then you, in the same room, opened your eyes very briefly every 2 seconds as well. There is a case where, depending on aligning you might see only dark or conversely only light.

 

[mswlogo]

Try recording the problem red light with your phone camera. Try it at various frame rates.

Most LEDs flash at much higher rates than cameras record. I would expect Tesla AutoPilot cameras to be set fairly slow, like 30 fps.

 

[240vPlug]

Yes i meant the voice command. Interesting that it doesn't go to Tesla. Do you have any sources for the info? Not saying your wrong, just interested in reading.

My understanding of the bug report function is as it's listed here on the Tesla website. It's for the M3 but the function should be identical for MY. Its from the owners manual.

Model 3 Owner's Manual | Tesla

Learn how to contact Tesla to learn more about your vehicle, and communicate questions and concerns, as well as how to contact regulatory agencies to report safety defects.

www.tesla.com

You can also use voice commands to provide feedback to Tesla. Say "Report", "Feedback", or "Bug report" followed by brief comments. Model 3 takes a snapshot of its systems, including your current location, vehicle diagnostic data, and screen captures of the touchscreen. Tesla periodically reviews these notes and uses them to continue improving Model 3.

 

[Knightshade]

.

Yes i meant the voice command. Interesting that it doesn't go to Tesla. Do you have any sources for the info? Not saying your wrong, just interested in reading.

This has been discussed extensively, for years, and known to not go anywhere.

Well known Tesla hacker Greentheonly has discussed it a number of times as well

https://twitter.com/x/status/1418571133561999367

Notice how what you quote never, ever, claims the info is "sent" to Tesla.

Just that it captures the snapshot (which it does- locally) and that Tesla may "periodically review" these reports. Which they do if you open a service ticket about whatever you reported to get the service center to look at fixing it.

 

[JulienW]

.....Tesla periodically reviews these notes and uses them to continue improving Model 3.

Green has confirmed this. This is if you bring your car in for service and Tesla needs the logs for review of the problem you are having.

EDIT: Nightshade is a faster typer and poster.

​

 

[240vPlug]

Interesting. That page says to report "safety issues". Yeah I understand they can get creative with the wording. Couldn't Tesla pull the logs from the car though. I am guessing the hacker only looked at traffic right at the time or shortly after submitting the bug report.

Surely it can't hurt to submit it? I would still do it as it states in the owners manual.

 

[Knightshade]

COULD they? Sure. When you open a service ticket the service center could remotely pull them and look at them to see if there's a code for a failing part or something so they know what to order for a service visit for example.

There's never been any evidence suggesting they DO pull them for any other reason- ever- though.

How could they do so in a useful fashion anyway? There's 3, approaching 4 by spring, and 5 by end of this year, million Teslas on the road. There's nobody to pull, let alone listen to and find anything important, in all that.


Does it hurt anything to do it anyway? No, other than wasting your time and adding a tiny bit of wear and tear to the flash memory on the car. If you don't mind wasting those knock yourself out.

 

[240vPlug]

COULD they? Sure. When you open a service ticket the service center could remotely pull them and look at them to see if there's a code for a failing part or something so they know what to order for a service visit for example.

There's never been any evidence suggesting they DO pull them for any other reason- ever- though.

How could they do so in a useful fashion anyway? There's 3, approaching 4 by spring, and 5 by end of this year, million Teslas on the road. There's nobody to pull, let alone listen to and find anything important, in all that.


Does it hurt anything to do it anyway? No, other than wasting your time and adding a tiny bit of wear and tear to the flash memory on the car. If you don't mind wasting those knock yourself out.

Seems pretty simple for Tesla to do a fleet wide pull of bug reports periodically. It literally takes two seconds to submit a bug report so not a large time commitment. The memory will be fine I'm sure

They will even thank you for your feedback

 

[Knightshade]

Seems pretty simple for Tesla to do a fleet wide pull of bug reports periodically. It literally takes two seconds to submit a bug report so not a large time commitment. The memory will be fine I'm sure

How long does it take to listen to and read the bug reports from a fleet of ~4 million cars though?

Because that's an insanely large tine commitment there's 0 evidence of them ever having the slightest interest in.

And I'm unaware of anyone, in 10+ years of Tesla selling cars, who got any response, let alone a thanks, for their feedback via this method. Are you?