FSD Beta 10.69

[Silicon Desert]

Give it to me and I will tell you if it works or not. I’m not a paid shill or a YouTube superstar, just a guy with a lot of driving experience as you all have as well and a lot of poor FSD experiences as you. My feedback would probably be more valuable TBH but that release has not hit me yet. I should start a channel.

Not to disagree with you. The forum just reminds me that I think it could be a VERY LONG time before FSD will ever be satisfactory for a high percentage of people mainly because there are so many variances in how people drive. The people who tailgate me being 3 feet off my bumper at 45 mph and make risky maneuvers will never be happy. Frankly, I like the way .1 is working for the places I go. Do I want it to be better? Of course. I will take it the way it is for most of my drives, but many people still won't be happy when they get .2 or maybe even some revisions after that.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The people who tailgate me being 3 feet off my bumper at 45 mph and make risky maneuvers will never be happy.

I want to be clear (since I feel like what I say in terms of FSD assertiveness, and driving around with the accelerator down all the time with FSD and the FCW going off all the time, could be interpreted otherwise) I am not one of those people. I drive quite assertively but usually leave tons of room to vehicles around me. Tailgating is one of my pet peeves (giving or receiving); it's very important that Tesla provide a following distance 15 option, and I hope that will be released soon.

 

[Silicon Desert]

I want to be clear (since I feel like what I say in terms of FSD assertiveness, and driving around with the accelerator down all the time with FSD and the FCW going off all the time, could be interpreted otherwise) I am not one of those people. I drive quite assertively but usually leave tons of room to vehicles around me. Tailgating is one of my pet peeves (giving or receiving); it's very important that Tesla provide a following distance 15 option, and I hope that will be released soon.

you and I are in the same boat on this one, fortunately.

 

[momo3605]

Tesla provide a following distance 15 option

really? You find follow distance 9 or whatever the max to be too little? I use follow distance 2 and feel it's pretty close to how normal human drivers follow

 

[Silicon Desert]

it's very important that Tesla provide a following distance 15 option, and I hope that will be released soon.

Oh Alan one thing you reminded me. For whatever reason, I have noticed that the following distance (1 to 7) doesn't seem to work for me on the most recent 69.1. I have tried it on surface streets and on the freeway and it seems that no matter what selection I make, it follows at a distance it wants rather than what I want. On TACC, it works for me and the distance varies, but on FSD it seems not to. That was one of my feedback complaints. I actually want more space on the interstate than what it does for me. Not sure what's up with that, but hopeful it will be changed. As you say, I want a wider option. At least 1 to 10.

 

[Silicon Desert]

seriously? You find follow distance 9 or whatever the max to be too little? I use follow distance 2 and feel it's pretty close to how normal human drivers follow

That's my point in another post. Different folks like different driving. You mean for YOU it seems normal. I would not say it is normal for all drivers. It isn't for folks up here. It doesn't hurt to have a wider selection of following distance. I see that you say you like distance 2. Not for me or the wife. Perhaps because you are in the "bay area" wherever that is in the USA. If it is the SF bay area, then I can imagine you like a closer distance. When we lived there, we noticed that was the trend for big cities and we tended to drive closer there, yet also with white knuckles

 

[momo3605]

Oh Alan one thing you reminded me. For whatever reason, I have noticed that the following distance (1 to 7) doesn't seem to work for me on the most recent 69.1. I have tried it on surface streets and on the freeway and it seems that no matter what selection I make, it follows at a distance it wants rather than what I want. On TACC, it works for me and the distance varies, but on FSD it seems not to. That was one of my feedback complaints. I actually want more space on the interstate than what it does for me. Not sure what's up with that, but hopeful it will be changed. As you say, I want a wider option. At least 1 to 10.

To be fair...at least on 10.12.2, chill/average/assertive seem to do nothing as well. I used to use assertive, and then switched to chill, and notice no difference. It still changes lanes aggressively if a car is going slightly under your set speed in your lane (which sometimes leads to missing turns)

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

seriously? You find follow distance 9 or whatever the max to be too little? I use follow distance 2 and feel it's pretty close to how normal human drivers follow

Yes, seriously. 2 is far too close (for me, in most situations). The max is 7, which I believe is less than 3 seconds, though I have not measured recently.

Unless it is transitory, I like to leave 3-4 seconds at least to the traffic in front of me. That way people can cut in easily and take a spot in front without drama, and I can see road debris with plenty of warning, and I can see further ahead of the car in front of me (and more of what is happening, brake lights, etc.) due to less angular cutoff.

I also like to follow slightly offset from the vehicle in front which also produces better visibility.

15 would be longer than I usually follow, but I would like to have options up to that distance.

 

[momo3605]

Yes, seriously. 2 is far too close (for me, in most situations).

Unless it is transitory, I like to leave 3-4 seconds at least to the traffic in front of me. That way people can cut in easily, and I can see road debris with plenty of warning and I can see further ahead of the car in front of me (and more of what is happening, brake lights, etc.) due to less angular cutoff.

I also like to follow slightly offset from the vehicle in front which also produces better visibility.

I've noticed even on 2, if you're on AP on freeway, and car in front of you slows and then accelerates away, the gap becomes huuuge. Maybe my preference is for tighter gaps to you, but i've seen to gap grow to 4-5 seconds (it's very elastic it seems). If that car slows down, my model 3 will come up closer again. But in SF Bay Area traffic, people will take advantage of that gap and keep cutting in front of you (hence why i wish there was actually a tighter setting like the old 1)

 

[Silicon Desert]

I've noticed even on 2, if you're on AP on freeway, and car in front of you slows and then accelerates away, the gap becomes huuuge. Maybe my preference is for tighter gaps to you, but i've seen to gap grow to 4-5 seconds (it's very elastic it seems). If that car slows down, my model 3 will come up closer again

interesting you mention that. I noticed it also on both my cars and a bit annoying. Starting around .69 and 69.1, it is much more responsive to starting off sooner after the car in front moves. Now I am getting not as annoyed.

 

[drtimhill]

Driving policy is multiple orders of magnitude harder than perception. I hate to break it to you but the person who is misunderstanding the development process is you.

Er, on what do you base that claim?

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Maybe my preference is for tighter gaps to you, but i've seen to gap grow to 4-5 seconds (it's very elastic it seems). If that car slows down, my model 3 will come up closer again. But in SF Bay Area traffic, people will take advantage of that gap and keep cutting in front of you (hence why i wish there was actually a tighter setting like the old 1)

Yes, this is a thing and has been for some time. (Most noticeable on freeways but I think it may be everywhere.)

I think it is because the AP team was unable to figure out a working control algorithm that did not respond to jitter in the speed of the lead vehicle (some people are terrible at keeping a consistent speed), while smoothly following at a reasonable distance. The solution? Massive rubber bands.

As humans it is easy to smoothly keep a consistent following distance even with changing speeds, if you try. But apparently this defeated the Tesla control system specialists. (Maybe the latency improvements they have added recently will eventually help here. Latency seems like it would makes things much for difficult for a control loop.)

Anyway also yes on surface streets I have no idea how it decides to follow or what controls that. A lot of the time it is way too close, and there is the same ridiculous rubber banding there as well.

In terms of people cutting in in front, I just don’t care. In heavy traffic it is a different situation, but a time-based gap will actually become quite short. In light traffic, people can cut in front of me as much as they want. I generally don’t find it to be a problem; it doesn’t slow me down. I think it would be pretty easy to write a formula which describes correct following distance (time) in all conditions for a given person, and then scale that according to personal preference.

 

[dl_jehu]

I figured out the release date, decided to cancel monthly beta testing fee which expires on Sept 12 - that will be the mega rollout of 10.69.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Starting around .69 and 69.1, it is much more responsive to starting off sooner after the car in front moves. Now I am getting not as annoyed.

This would be great to hear. Something to look out for in 10.69.2. If they can figure out how to follow at a reasonable distance that would be .

 

[Silicon Desert]

This would be great to hear. Something to look out for in 10.69.2. If they can figure out how to follow at a reasonable distance that would be .

YES, this ^^^. And will it work well there as well as here ?
Reason I say that. On a side note, I visit San Diego a lot as son lives there. BEAUTIFUL city, yet seems a lot harder for me to drive. Pretty aggressive drivers (as with most all big cities), Up here, they traffic is thin most all the time and except for the folks flying through from state to state, it's easier for us to drive without sudden traffic merging, folks changing lanes, etc. When I come there, I have to be more alert, especially since some of the road changes seem really strange to me. Bottom line, that place is worth any frustration of driving. Absolutely love it there. Just too expensive to live. As for Tesla, I am wondering how we will be able to adjust the distances for more or less crowded traffic.

 

[willow_hiller]

New video from Chuck kind of shows the opposite behavior. Very unsure when car ahead is coming and defaults to stopping and weirding out the other driver even though there is plenty of space to move through. Seems it has trouble calculating space

Just going through this one now. The missing of the occluded Stop Sign starting around 8:35 is really puzzling. It makes me even more sure that they may have accidentally increased braking latency instead of reducing braking latency from 10.69 to 10.69.1.

It saw the stop sign and rendered it on the visualization 52 frames prior to Chuck pressing the brake and disengaging. At 30 FPS and 26 MPH, that's 66 feet away. It actually accelerated from 25.5 MPH to 27.0 MPH after registering the stop sign, and then only started applying regenerative braking 24 frames prior to disengagement, and brakes 6 frames prior to disengagement. 66 feet feels like plenty of distance for FSDb to make a comfortable stop.

Also I've just learned that the metadata Chuck has on the top of his screen isn't 100% intuitive. When it says "Brake: Not Applied" and "Accel: 0%" that seems to just be his input. You can only tell when FSDb is braking by the green/grey regen line, or by "Rear Torque: Torq Act" going negative.

 

[Silicon Desert]

A lot of the time it is way too close, and there is the same ridiculous rubber banding there as well.

"Rubber Banding" ? I love that term for how the Telsa currently has a hard time maintaining distance in stop and go traffic. I guess that means we now have to create another "RB" abbreviation to confuse the new TMC people as to what we are talking about

 

[powertoold]

I'm surprised how far away the occupancy network is able to see these outdoor dining areas (estimate about 300 feet). The location predictions are also very stable, doesn't jump around like cones do:

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Redo! Guess it was a regression.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1565775365267525632

 

[Acisplat]

Not a Tesla App says it's 10.69.1.1

Maybe fixing some bugs caused from the merge to 2022.20.x?