Exactly it’s very situational. The quick and aggressive acceleration is great when pulling out in a tight gap but accelerating to 25mph in two seconds inside my neighborhood is not a great idea and isn’t needed. Acceleration ramp should be tailored based on the speed of the road you’re entering.
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FSD Beta 10.69
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
Exactly - signal before you slow down so people are expecting it. If all cars were being driven by AI it wouldn’t matter as they’d see you slowing within milliseconds and react and brake just fine. Surprising the human driver behind me is a good way to get rear ended even though I (and FSD) wouldn’t be at fault it would be an avoidable accident.1000% agree, and it used to be much better.
I found an e-mail I sent to the Beta team on 10/28/2021, when I was on v10.3.1.
I measured out where it was signaling for 'normal' roads (using google maps, and observing when the signal was initiated), and it was consistently about 600ft. It was signaling BEFORE slowing down, which is what I'd do myself.
My comment to them was that while the regular roads were good - when getting off of an interstate exit, it starts to slow down about 600ft from the exit ramp, and signaled less an 100ft from the ramp, all of which will cause issues.
Of course, I never heard anything back.It got worse with each release after that point.
They really need a feedback/ticket system for this stuff.
Ultimately FSD needs to learn and be trained to be a defensive driver - anticipate what others might do and plan accordingly - be predictable and try to avoid hard braking. Fsd does stuff that would get our safety score massively dinged (hard braking last second to make a turn for example - that would incur a huge hit for hard braking and aggressive turning).
Really, it's signal before you slow down because otherwise you'll fail your driving test.
Similarly, the deceleration _after_ passing a speed sign should have earned that functionality a ban long ago.
A ban would motivate Tesla to fix it.
Just measured and FSD turned on the blinker only 60 feet away from the left hand turn into my residential neighborhood. For a second I thought it was going to just skip the blinker entirely. Probably should have turned on the blinker sooner myself.
Definitely seems worse in this release.
Definitely seems worse in this release.
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
On several of the turn-lanes in my area, there is no white line between the through-lane and the turn-lane for the first 20 feet or so. I can only assume that this causes FSDb to treat entering the turn lane as taking a fork, because it does not use the turn signal to merge into these kinds of turn-lanes.
It is this version fo the beta that I have heard the first time the rear wheel tires squeal or chirp when accelerating out of my road onto a primary road, with nobody around and no cars coming. It’s really only possible since the car is in a turn at the time and going max A that lets one of the rear wheels break traction and Chirp. Makes no sense really, but it’s definitely new to this build.
And not just the level of acceleration but the addition of the harsher jerk along with FSDb's baseline unrefined throttle/brake step-response. For me the craziest episode was a right turn at an intersection where it applied enough throttle for the tires to break loose. A close second is the repeatable jerky acceleration for the right turn apex into our neighborhood. I doubt it gets any better until they more thoughtfully implement acceleration jerk.
For comparison, I hadn't experienced FSDb before 10.69.2.2 but wonder if the new harsher jerk is also exacerbating the brake response. All in all 10.69.2.2's thoughtless throttle/brake application underwhelms, wastes energy, and increases tire wear.
For comparison, I hadn't experienced FSDb before 10.69.2.2 but wonder if the new harsher jerk is also exacerbating the brake response. All in all 10.69.2.2's thoughtless throttle/brake application underwhelms, wastes energy, and increases tire wear.
Very excited joined Beta last week but it was a bit of let down. What surprised me was how bad right turns are. On a few occasions it tried to right turn into center of 2 lanes when there were already oncoming cars there and I had to disengage quickly. Weirdly left turns were fine, which was puzzling because I would've thought right turns are much easier. also had the same acceleration to the max issues as other mentioned. It also stopped way too far back at stop sign. no one in NJ would drive like this. hoping next version would be better.
Welcome into the Beta!
Being in Jersey myself and coming from the previous release:
- You don't know how lucky you are. The previous release was demonstrably worse than 69.2.2. Yes: Not ready for prime time. But that's why we test. If you were expecting delightful, hands-free steering and all, you're in the wrong place. The Beta is where we test and send the errors (there are lots) off to Tesla by hitting that Video button. Figure on 5-10 reports per day, if not per trip, where each of those reports, at minimum, is going to get people honking at you, and at maximum, would result in bent metal and possible bodily harm. Previous release was more like 10-20. When the Beta acceptance blurb said, "The car is going to be doing the wrong thing at the wrong time." they weren't kidding. If you're smart, you'll keep at least one hand on that wheel at all times, preferably two.
- New Jersey.. Most congested state in the Union. Our streets weren't laid out by drunken cows (that's Boston's story, and they're sticking with it), but, what with Home Rule, it may as well have been. What this means: No nice flat streets with rectangular grids and nice sight lines, and every town has its own ideas about how to stripe, or not stripe, the roads. Tesla picks people like us for the Beta because, by gum, it's a pressure cooker around here. Not quite as evil as NYC, say, but rugged, it is.
Welcome to the party. Keep your eyes open and your brain in gear.
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Thank you. Yes I’ve been hitting that video feedback button. For now I only do FSD when I’m alone in the car that I can tolerate the jerkiness of the ride as well as all the sudden stop/go. I have nothing to compare to but while it seems a little lit off from actual hands free driving, the evidence is there that FSD might be achievable. To me tsla chose to solve harder issue first instead of focusing on smoothing out the experience. I think that is ok, those I’m sure will come later. It’s still very cool though.
Measured a slow down from 59mph ( 55 zone) to 48mph ( 45 zone) just under 3/4 miles. 10.69.2.2 Speed sign initiated.
I'm of the opinion that if you really want to train FSDb on edge cases, the Northeastern US metro areas are where you need to focus. As far as sh*tty road designs and aggressive drivers go, the entire region has an abundance of both.
Chucks UPL is essential to get right, but that kind of maneuver is child's play compared to some of the sh*t we're forced to do in the Northeast.
Google Maps
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.com
During evening rush hour, most people entering this rotary are trying to cross the Boston University Bridge. Notice how 3 lanes (1 from Mem Drive, 2 from the rotary) merge together and immediately drops to a single exit lane. To make matters worse, that single exit lane to bridge has a stoplight, which logjams the entire rotary.
In summary, 3 lanes merging into 1, and that 1 lane is frequently stopped by the light. How do you think FSDb will handle that merge...........
Also, when the entire rotary is logjammed, and everyone in the rotary has the right of way, what's the likelihood of the Massholes in the rotary letting in a car willingly? FSD will sit there forever and never wedge itself in.
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Ok I would need to see a video of this claim. Trust that I have done Everything I can manually to get my MYP to squeal the tires even in the rain and I have never seen that case even in full launch.
You’ll need to be in a turn as indicated. I’m sure you can get it to squeal or break free.
"Massholes". Hate to say it but have to agreeI'm of the opinion that if you really want to train FSDb on edge cases, the Northeastern US metro areas are where you need to focus. As far as sh*tty road designs and aggressive drivers go, the entire region has an abundance of both.
Chucks UPL is essential to get right, but that kind of maneuver is child's play compared to some of the sh*t we're forced to do in the Northeast.
Google Maps
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
During evening rush hour, most people entering this rotary are trying to cross the Boston University Bridge. Notice how 3 lanes (1 from Mem Drive, 2 from the rotary) merge together and immediately drops to a single exit lane. To make matters worse, that single exit lane to bridge has a stoplight, which logjams the entire rotary.
In summary, 3 lanes merging into 1, and that 1 lane is frequently stopped by the light. How do you think FSDb will handle that merge...........
Also, when the entire rotary is logjammed, and everyone in the rotary has the right of way, what's the likelihood of the Massholes in the rotary letting in a car willingly? FSD will sit there forever and never wedge itself in.
As far as the Northeast I'm in agreement the road layout here is extremely difficult for FSD. So many of the YouTube videos I watch are done on simple road layouts even when there are FSD issues.
Today I had 3 instances where FSD disengaged itself with just an audible alert. No steering wheel of death just a loud alert telling me to take over or your car won't be in once piece. In almost a year I've never had as many dangerous disengagements as 10.69. Even so 10.69 has also had definite improvements.
The likelyhood FSD will come out of beta by year end are slim and none in my opinion. Tesla will probably just give it to everyone that purchased FSD and keep it as beta software. If someoone had the drive I had today and wasn't ready to takeover immediately they would for sure have had a serious accident they were that bad. Tesla must be tired of seeing my emails. Unfortunately, my dashcam wasn't enabled today or I'd have videos to share.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
I’d put them somewhere around 0 / ♾
Remember - Tesla still considers TACC to be a beta feature while Other carmakers have had adaptive cruise for a decade. If they’re not willing to commit on TACC they’ll never commit on FSD
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
I was thinking about this the other day, and the cynical interpretation is definitely valid. But it's also possible to interpret Tesla's ubiquitous Beta labels as a commitment to continual improvement. I think most people would be disappointed if Smart Summon in its current form was deemed "finished." But it's still in Beta, and we know Elon's already said they're working on the next version.
Other car makers don't sell Beta products, but the finished products they do sell can never improve. You want better features? Buy a new car.
Speaking as a (very) ex-Newtonite, and having learned how to drive up there, I completely agree with the "Masshole" stuff. It's not a new phenomena. Boston drivers have been terrorizing out-of-towners for a very long time. (And, now that I think of it, a California-designed FSD-b is pretty much the definition of an out-of-towner.)"Massholes". Hate to say it but have to agree
As far as the Northeast I'm in agreement the road layout here is extremely difficult for FSD. So many of the YouTube videos I watch are done on simple road layouts even when there are FSD issues.
Today I had 3 instances where FSD disengaged itself with just an audible alert. No steering wheel of death just a loud alert telling me to take over or your car won't be in once piece. In almost a year I've never had as many dangerous disengagements as 10.69. Even so 10.69 has also had definite improvements.
The likelyhood FSD will come out of beta by year end are slim and none in my opinion. Tesla will probably just give it to everyone that purchased FSD and keep it as beta software. If someoone had the drive I had today and wasn't ready to takeover immediately they would for sure have had a serious accident they were that bad. Tesla must be tired of seeing my emails. Unfortunately, my dashcam wasn't enabled today or I'd have videos to share.
As it happens, my Mother went to MIT back in the 1940's and used to drive around the area. (This is back when there was serious farmland all throughout Newton, for example. Which now raises a solid crop of suburban houses.)
She met my Dad in New York (that being where she and he were working, and where she was from). They then took a trip up to Boston and, as she tells it, she Warned Dad about the Boston drivers. He went, "As compared to the New Yorkers? Pshaw!" or something like that. Him being a Midwestern boy, where they lay streets out straight and at right angles.
When they got up there, she says he was like a soldier looking for a foxhole, ducking into side streets so he could hyperventilate and calm down a bit. And went, "Point. You were right."
Tesla goes out of their way not to define Beta very clearly (or at all in their manuals). We have to rely on the standard industry definition which is for products that are in pre-release and still undergoing development. Some features don't say Beta, some do say Beta. The reasonable assumption is that features that don't say Beta are finished. They may still be improved later but they are finished. They don't call the entire car Beta but they do send out OTA updates for it.
On their website Tesla says this about Traffic and Stop Sign Control: "This feature is in Beta and may not stop for all traffic controls". If some people want to interpret the word Beta differently go ahead, but for Tesla Beta means the feature is not finished, we advise you to use it carefully.
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
This caught my attention as I was just thinking about it on the way home. YES, I wish it had put on the blinker for its intent to move into a left turn lane at a traffic light. It started slowing down first, with cars behind me. It should have put on the blinker and then start slowing down after a couple seconds.
On a somewhat different note, there is a 2-lane roundabout near home: While the car is already in the right lane, it puts on the right turn signal for no apparent reason. After the roundabout, it will need to make a left turn down the road a bit so actually it should have been in the left lane already. Today, I had to quickly turn off the right turn signal as a person in a car on a street to the right might have mistaken that turn signal to mean I was going to turn into the street before him. You know, lots of people seems to like to pull out in front of you if they see a turn signal. Personally, I wait to see what a car really does instead of looking at the signal. Baffled why it always puts on the right blinker at that traffic circle when it knows it has no intent to turn right at any location.
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