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FSD Beta Button in the UK?

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
10,735
9,779
Visalia, CA
Elon tweeted that the FSD Beta button was arriving in the US in May but could take till June. Is there any chance this magical button could reach the UK around the same time or am I dreaming?😝

In a capitalist world, once you paid fully for a product, you should get it without the need to wish and pray that there will be a "button" instead of the product.

But Tesla is another whole different animal I guess. So, I have no answer, sorry.
 
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Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
10,735
9,779
Visalia, CA
Doubt we'll get anything like FSD beta until the regulations/law changes..

Tesla legally claims that FSD is a Level 2 system that requires a licensed driver to drive the car.

Unless the EU disputes Tesla's claim and the EU would think that FSD is competent enough for the machine to drive the car without a licensed human driver, I don't see there's any problem.

However, the German court does not allow Tesla to use names that might overstate its capability such as "Autopilot".
 
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Unless the EU disputes Tesla's claim and the EU would think that FSD is competent enough for the machine to drive the car without a licensed human driver, I don't see there's any problem.
In the EU/UK cars currently have to comply with UNECE standards, which nerf most of FSD's features.

i.e. you cannot have automatic unconfirmed lane changes (essential to any full self driving car), there are maximum G forces allowed on cornering, which are far too low and restrictive. UNECE rules also change on a very slow, almost glacial basis, so do not keep up with innovation.

It's possible FSD in UK could improve further in some aspects up to UNECE regulatory levels, but not beyond them in the short term, and certainly not up to FSD Beta that we see currently in USA.

However, UK appears to be going down a dual regulatory model, so will bring out its own legislation as an option for manufacturers to comply with instead of (or in addition to) UNECE rules which will remain.

From what I have read, the new UK rules should be a lot more relaxed and should allow FSD beta... things will start getting in place legally towards the end of this year, so maybe in 2022 we could have FSD Beta in UK.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
10,735
9,779
Visalia, CA
...i.e. you cannot have automatic unconfirmed lane changes (essential to any full self driving car), there are maximum G forces allowed on cornering, which are far too low and restrictive. UNECE rules also change on a very slow, almost glacial basis, so do not keep up with innovation...

I think Tesla can easily modify its version to the EU FSD version that requires more restrictions as well as driver's inputs/decisions to make sure it's an L2 that still requires humans rather than more automation as if it doesn't require humans.
 
In the EU/UK cars currently have to comply with UNECE standards, which nerf most of FSD's features.

i.e. you cannot have automatic unconfirmed lane changes (essential to any full self driving car), there are maximum G forces allowed on cornering, which are far too low and restrictive. UNECE rules also change on a very slow, almost glacial basis, so do not keep up with innovation.

It's possible FSD in UK could improve further in some aspects up to UNECE regulatory levels, but not beyond them in the short term, and certainly not up to FSD Beta that we see currently in USA.

However, UK appears to be going down a dual regulatory model, so will bring out its own legislation as an option for manufacturers to comply with instead of (or in addition to) UNECE rules which will remain.

From what I have read, the new UK rules should be a lot more relaxed and should allow FSD beta... things will start getting in place legally towards the end of this year, so maybe in 2022 we could have FSD Beta in UK.
Really interesting! Fingers crossed the UK shows more pragmatism than the EU in terms of regulations. I just wish things moved faster in terms of self driving car regulation😩
 
I think Tesla can easily modify its version to the EU FSD version that requires more restrictions as well as driver's inputs/decisions to make sure it's an L2 that still requires humans rather than more automation as if it doesn't require humans.
This is pretty much what we have now.... and these UNECE standards cripple lots of the features.

For example, on lane changes, there is a minimum sized gap that is needed to the vehicle behind, an enforced delay between the user indicating in agreement with the suggested lane change and it commencing, and then a maximum time for the manoeuvre to complete.

If it fails any one of these the lane change aborts.

For most of the time on a motorway/freeway this is not as much of an issue (but still not as good as it should be), but simply would be unworkable changing lanes in traffic in most other scenarios/"city streets".

If you compare on youtube FSD (non-beta) in the USA and in the UK/EU there is a world of difference - all for these regulatory reasons.
 

GeorgeSymonds

Active Member
Moderator
Mar 16, 2018
1,866
1,571
UK
The regulations aren't really an issue. If they had a car that currently slowed down for a bend to the regulation rather than abort mid corner then they could argue for a higher cornering limit. I don't think raising the limit would make the car better, it would just make it bail out at higher speeds. If it sat at junction to turn left or right and it made the suggestion and you just had to tap the indicator to confirm it then its probbaly a good thing as it reinforces the driver attention which is required.

The lane change gap I find odd really, I've never really had the problem with simple lane change I initiate so I suspect the real issue is programming and not the legislation. You accepting a recommendation is no different to you deciding to make the change and asking for it unless I'm missing something. My wife's car also has an assisted lane change feature and that seems to be quite happy changing lanes.

For me the biggest issue isn't the regulations, its the lack of localisation for our conditions. A simple example is a coned off lane - in the US they have to leave a full clear lane, here we don't, yet NoA wants you to leave the lane. Thats just one relatively trivial example. I think their junction rules are different, our roads tend to have more curves, stop signs are a little different etc. Tesla haven't really locallised for us yet irrespecitve of the rules.
 

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