FSD Beta in the UK?

[MrBadger]

I apologize, doubt we shall see anything soon on that list.

You may well be right. You are not the only one saying that FSD is blocked by regulations in this country, but I have yet to see anything that specifically prevents implementation of UNECE 157 in this country other than the vehicle getting the appropriate type approval and being on the approved list.

As for the approved list, I would expect Mercedes to have something pretty quickly and I am pretty sure that Ford are testing too. I'm just hoping that that is what Tesla are doing too.

I am sure that many people would find a properly implemented NoA to be a great benefit. Certainly for me, its would be a serious reason to consider keeping the car. Not particularly bothered about City Streets, although some feature enhancements would be useful such as better speed control when on TACC etc. But at present, City Streets is not covered by 157 anyway, which I am personally fine with.

 

[Buzzliteyear]

This my first year of ownership behind me now, I had hoped the features would have improved, not got worse.
Shame we can't roll back the updates.

 

[bobbychariot]

I’m annoyed that the FSD I paid for three years ago is not transferable to my MY.

And this is why I didn't bother.
Paying a fortune for vaporware which may never get signed off

 

[Fursty Ferret]

I am sure that many people would find a properly implemented NoA to be a great benefit.

This. A thousand times this.

 

[goRt]

I'd be happy with the vision stack being deployed for highway driving and then the matrix enabling

Not too much to ask from the holiday release

 

[MrJaffro]

I imagine once FSD Beta v11 ('full stack') release is bug fixed it won't be more than 6 months before that becomes the entire fleet globally. Maintenance costs and risks in keeping two code bases doing the same job is just too high, before even considering how us users feel about it.

The 'recent' NOA updates to require confirmation on exit are almost certainly regulator demanded, and still fairly botched. Imo shows how little Tesla want to deal with the ~4yr old stack, and how regulators are probably putting them under pressure to get the software sorted. Financially inefficient to do anything than move to the modern code stack, even if it's a different version, and do that fast.

 

[Battpower]

NOA updates to require confirmation on exit are almost certainly regulator demanded

Good job too. I've had two or three times when NoA has tried to exit prematurely on to a police layby or hard shoulder. Not too bad in the day or on well lit roads, but when the exact off ramp isn't very clear in the dark I've nearly allowed the car to do its thing. Better have me look and agree before it does anything., although really not much point in unreliable autonomy!

 

[NewbieT]

Makes me wonder if the talk of getting sued on forums such as this has nudged Tesla into action. Either way UK FSD (real FSD) definitely looks more realistic than it did a fortnight ago.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

Is it actually cleared in the UK ?
I know the UNCE was making it legal, the UK keep mentioning it and I was more convinced that we would have fusion power before then lol

There are clauses that basically copy/paste UNECE regs directly into law. We don't have to pass legislation for every single bit of it.. that would be complete insanity, given how much there is and how much it changes... Our laws obviously take precedence (it's basically 'if $Act says nothing about this, follow UNECE') but I'm not sure there's anything expressly forbidding ALKS.

Im not sure about this specific bit - but the papers were all over it when it happened (attributing it to the UK of course not Germany/Japan who wrote it and pushed it through.. gotta love our press..). Does the Mercedes ALKS work here?

Although I'm not convinced being limited to 37mph on motorways is particularly useful at present..

 

[Zilla91]

Although I'm not convinced being limited to 37mph on motorways is particularly useful at present..

You’ve not been near the junctions next to Heathrow on the M25 recently, have you?

 

[Bobby_Dazzler]

At one point for the UK I seemed it was a race against the EU to be ahead of the game with regards to autonomous driving but then Covid struck and the government has fallen to pieces since then. Note I’m not saying any other government would have don’t any better. Im
Hoping we can get our act together in the UK and start piloting what UK GOV think is right rather than following others and relying on their rules & regs, that was meant to be one of the benefits of Brexit.

 

[MrBadger]

…Does the Mercedes ALKS work here?

Although I'm not convinced being limited to 37mph on motorways is particularly useful at present..

No cars on the approved list just yet (links above) but I recon Mercedes will be quick out the block. Come January when the UNECE 157 speed restrictions are effectively lifted the UNECE regs become a highly desirable set worth getting UK compliant type approval for membership to that club.

In 10 days time it seems that there will be no regulatory excuses to hide behind not to have very useful L3 NoA (or limited L3 now) via UNECE 157. Just the quality of implementation and the desire to gain UK compliant type approval to meet those regs which will be totally in the vehicle manufacturers hands. First vehicles on that list will get major bragging rights.

 

[Durzel]

Makes me wonder if the talk of getting sued on forums such as this has nudged Tesla into action. Either way UK FSD (real FSD) definitely looks more realistic than it did a fortnight ago.

FSD Beta is no closer in the UK, the UNECE doesn’t move that quickly and the regulations have not changed to allow it.

Employees testing FSD Beta in the UK are not restricted by this though because they are carrying out testing, rather than it being something that customers have access to.

 

[Buzzliteyear]

Glacial time scales lol

 

[MrBadger]

FSD Beta is no closer in the UK, the UNECE doesn’t move that quickly and the regulations have not changed to allow it.

An January, UNECE 157 should allow L3 FSD beta functionality to be used on motorways and divided highways with no pedestrians/cyclists etc if it could support highways (seeing shots of single stack on highways from a number of sources now), driver/ADAS handover be properly and predictably orchestrated and made reliable enough AND Tesla could get their cars UK compliant type approved to UNECE or UK type approval rather than piggybacking off European or other type approval.

I can see absolutely no excuse from January for NoA functionality to be upgraded to L3 other than Teslas technical ability or desire to achieve the requirements to gain approval although some may not like some of the restrictions that would come with achieving type approval. This may not be City Streets but it would sure be a highly desirable piece of functionality even if it couldn’t be used on lesser roads that would still be treated as hands on driver assist.

 

[WannabeOwner]

This may not be City Streets

I've watched Chuck Cooks videos ... informative that they are, I'm not wanting to shepherd a Beta down city streets ...

... but "drive the motorway to the exit ramp" would be good, I rarely intervene on AP as it is, and a higher level of AP ability would be worthwhile.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Define FSD. It’s a driver assist system in the US, it’s still level 2. The main differences I’ve seen with our regs compared to the US are we need to confirm anything that involves moving out of your current lane, maximum forces on the car, and time constraints to complete certain activities. You could do a lot more in the U.K. and still obey those principles, but would it be worth doing?

I’d prefer L3 motorway driving but Tesla aren’t trying to achieve that unlike Mercedes and some of the others. L3 and above is when the benefit really arrives.

 

[Mullermn]

Define FSD. It’s a driver assist system in the US, it’s still level 2. The main differences I’ve seen with our regs compared to the US are we need to confirm anything that involves moving out of your current lane, maximum forces on the car, and time constraints to complete certain activities. You could do a lot more in the U.K. and still obey those principles, but would it be worth doing?

I’d prefer L3 motorway driving but Tesla aren’t trying to achieve that unlike Mercedes and some of the others. L3 and above is when the benefit really arrives.

If I was Tesla I wouldn’t be rushing to do L3. Let’s say you think your software is capable of it, but no competing vehicles currently do it. Why roll it out knowing that everyone is looking for the opportunity to write the first ‘autonomous vehicle causes an incident’ article with ensuing, very public lawsuits?

Tesla have been (this may be in the process of changing) selling everything they can make. Frustratingly (as a current owner) it’s not like they need to try and impress.

Now for the other manufacturers it’s different. Tesla is eating them alive at the moment and none of them have a hope in hell of catching them in manufacturing capacity any time soon. They are desperate to give you a reason (any reason!) not to buy a Tesla.

The silver lining for current owners is that the technical fundamentals in the car are good. If the other car makers manage to put Tesla in a painful position we may see rapid improvements - after all its not like improving customer service is fundamentally hard.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

If I was Tesla I wouldn’t be rushing to do L3. Let’s say you think your software is capable of it, but no competing vehicles currently do it. Why roll it out knowing that everyone is looking for the opportunity to write the first ‘autonomous vehicle causes an incident’ article with ensuing, very public lawsuits?

Tesla have been (this may be in the process of changing) selling everything they can make. Frustratingly (as a current owner) it’s not like they need to try and impress.

Now for the other manufacturers it’s different. Tesla is eating them alive at the moment and none of them have a hope in hell of catching them in manufacturing capacity any time soon. They are desperate to give you a reason (any reason!) not to buy a Tesla.

The silver lining for current owners is that the technical fundamentals in the car are good. If the other car makers manage to put Tesla in a painful position we may see rapid improvements - after all its not like improving customer service is fundamentally hard.

I’m totally opposite - nail L3 on motorways and you have an option that people would think is worth buying - get on a motorway, enable L3, watch a film, use your phone, have a zoom call, disengage when you get off.

City streets is waiting for the headline ‘Tesla kills a child’ and doesn’t really offer the driver anything other than a party piece and a car twiddles the wheel while you’re paying close attention to what it does. The utility for the driver comes when they can stop thinking about the driving

I suspect L3 on motorways would also have been easier to attain

 

[doats1]

The silver lining for current owners is that the technical fundamentals in the car are good.

I was with you until this line.