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FSD fails to detect children in the road
- Thread starter 2101Guy
- Start date
Oh okay. That's like my 1st grader claiming she's a 5th grader today because she will be a 5th grader someday...lol.
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
Girl in bar: "So, what do you do?"
Me: "I'm a Doctor."
Girl (excited) "Really?"
Me: "Yeah, but I'm in Beta."
Girl (dejected) "Oh"
Never seen a medical school student claims to be a doctor before...assuming that is what Beta means.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
This is a common misunderstanding of the way "levels" work. It's more like your 1st grader claiming to be a human and not a dog even though both require supervision.
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
And Level 5 will be the human turning 18 in this example where supervision is no longer required. So when did Tesla claimed to be 18?
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
We're just arguing semantics. I know, I know: what's the internet good for if we can't start a jihad over minutia?
I think we can all agree that whatever Tesla is offering, it currently does not meet the definition of "Level 5", although I accept this is their aspirational goal.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
beta L3-L5 software requires supervision to ensure safety.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
There are no performance specifications for any of the SAE automation levels and the whole point of beta software is that it's not done yet. Waymo spend nearly a decade with beta L4 software before they were able to remove supervision.
It is true that this is silly to argue about. The only thing that matters is whether or not it is safe to test on public roads (so far it appears to be).
Each item is a separate affirmation :
The activation specific item:
The operation item:
The "manner instructed" is with hand on wheel. How is this *not* how it is to be operated?
From his Exhibit C:
Correct. He put it in FSD mode correctly, But it wasn't "in full self-driving mode, in the manner instructed" the second he took his hands off the wheel. Because as instructed is that "You must keep your hand on the steering wheel at all times."The operation item:
The "manner instructed" is with hand on wheel. How is this *not* how it is to be operated?
From his Exhibit C:
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Seems like a serious design flaw to only hit children when the vehicle doesn't detect hands on the wheel, especially given we all know that the detection can be unreliable.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
He put it in FSD mode as instructed in the driving manual. They are obviously talking about how FSD was engaged, not how it was used.
That is a fact, just super annoying (probably deliberately so!).
This affidavit says nothing about whether he used that mode according to the manual (because if it did that would be incorrect!).
The operation item is clearly referring to the vehicle, not the driver. It was factually in self-driving mode during a brief window of time, as described.
This is just straightforward plain English. It doesn’t mean I think it is great or wonderful. But there is nothing false in the affidavit that has been identified so far.
The Scarecrow is over in Oz...
It is possible to discuss different aspects of the same set of events. Such as test methodology (contrived), test reporting (biased), tester's statements (contradictory).
As an aside to this discussion. How would one keep hands on the steering yoke at all times in a Model S/X Plaid? I presume therefore you cannot use Autosteer with those models.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I guess we’ll have to disagree. When I pull the gear stalk twice, my vehicle will go into full self-driving mode if conditions permit, according to the manual, but it doesn’t mean I am using it correctly in accordance with the manual. If I wanted to discuss whether it was being used in accordance with the manual, I would talk about the *use* of the feature.
To me this seems like straightforward English.
But opinions can differ apparently!
Show me a video where someone using a yoke is able to hold it "at all times" while on Autosteer (and it's actually properly turning, not just driving straight or slightly turned)
???
[When the car] was in Full Self Driving mode, in the manner instructed by the owner's manual ... [during all portions of the videoed test]
If you go to the owner's manual and look up how things should be when in FSD mode, what does it say?
It says driver's hands on the wheel.
This is not transition to FSD, this is 'in FSD' i.e. operation. If not, then this assertion is redundant and the call out of the manual is meaningless since FSD was already activated, and anything after that is Tesla's domain, not the owner's.
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