FSD is a fraud

[mark95476]

Agreed. All of the whining by anonymous nicks on TMC in attempt to goad Tesla into releasing autosteer city (last missing FSD feature) prematurely won't work.

We really need to have a competitor on the market that has FSD, but nothing comes remotely close. Everyone is trying to catch up to the features Tesla had for year(s).

Tesla has demonstrated that they're nimble and focus on what's important. Tesla switched to a vision-only stack and was able to recover their IIHS safety recommendations after about a month. Virtually everyone else still has that radar anchor around their necks.

Role model? No. Worthy of admiration, definitely. Most naysayers are more envious than anything else.

 

[arri]

but nothing comes remotely close

Ever heard of mobileye? The developers of the chipset for AP1?

 

[helvio]

Ever heard of mobileye? The developers of the chipset for AP1?

I've heard of them. They do whatever they're supposed to do, which isn't much compared to what my car does.
The question is: Is my car going to get better?
Tesla: Yes
MobilEye: No

That, for me, is a decisive question.

 

[eli_]

MobilEye doesn't sell a product to customers though, their business plan is basically convince government regulators that they should penalize the safety ratings of cars that don't have MobilEye's chips installed.

 

[Silicon Desert]

This was the original description of FSD.
View attachment 684431

Thanks for reminding me what it is supposed to do.
Oh yea, and how about those "super chargers with automatic charge connection enabled". Aren't those great?

 

[Silicon Desert]

that’s all. No need to launch personal attacks just because you have a different opinion.

Hmmm, but you just did the same thing. You called him a nucklehead. ie.. personal attack.

 

[Terminator857]

... attempt to goad Tesla into releasing autosteer city (last missing FSD feature) prematurely won't work. ...

Perhaps Tesla shouldn't have said this feature was coming by end of 2019 on the order page for FSD.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Perhaps Tesla shouldn't have said this feature was coming by end of 2019 on the order page for FSD.

Actually "automatic driving on city streets" was coming by the end of 2019, in April 2020 it changed to "autosteer on city streets".
We really need a sticky on this forum... There's almost 5 years of FSD history now and it's hard to keep track of everything!

 

[gearchruncher]

Agreed. All of the whining by anonymous nicks on TMC in attempt to goad Tesla into releasing autosteer city (last missing FSD feature) prematurely won't work.

Does this mean that you agree FSD in the current state is dangerous? Because that's the only reason to not release it, right? How come so many other people fight the idea that FSD right now is dangerous and a disclaimer is all that is needed?

Tesla switched to a vision-only stack and was able to recover their IIHS safety recommendations after about a month.

Elon started posting about vision only about 8 months before. They did not do that in just 1 month. Not sure 8 months to remove radar makes it look like they are just a few months away from being able to solve lots of the FSD issues we see in v9. It looks more like we'll have many, many slow iterative releases, not some magic breakthrough (like v8 and v9 weren't). Which is a major issue if you think they need a major breakthrough before it would be a "premature" release.

Post your name and address, or stop calling others "anonymous" as if that is suspicious and are hiding behind that. You've used "anonymous nicks" 8 times on TMC, always to disparage people that you disagree with.

 

[DelPhonic1]

No, but I'll take on a troll who proffers FALSE statements.

OP appears to post only to refute and offer negativity.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Does this mean that you agree FSD in the current state is dangerous? Because that's the only reason to not release it, right? How come so many other people fight the idea that FSD right now is dangerous and a disclaimer is all that is needed?

Sounds like a false dilemma. There's a big gap between "dangerous" and "not ready".

 

[gearchruncher]

There's a big gap between "dangerous" and "not ready".

So you are saying that if it released in this state, it would be safe, but it isn't ready?
What about it isn't ready if it's otherwise safe? So many people want access to this, yet Tesla has spent 10+ months not releasing it. What part of it needs to be improved for it to be released?

 

[stopcrazypp]

So you are saying that if it released in this state, it would be safe, but it isn't ready?
What about it isn't ready if it's otherwise safe? So many people want access to this, yet Tesla has spent 10+ months not releasing it. What part of it needs to be improved for it to be released?

It needs to at least be able to handle all the situations you would encounter in a city in even a bare minimum capacity, but it's obviously not there yet (unprotected left turn is an obvious one pointed out, was just discussing in other thread that the car still can't read digital speed limit signs as another example). Doesn't mean it's dangerous however. If it was dangerous, we would have heard about an accident already. While ~2000 cars is still behind schedule vs what Elon mentioned (we should be at 10-20k by now), it's still a huge fleet (with untrained drivers at that, some of which are multitasking and narrating videos) vs other test fleets.

 

[jimm01]

Sounds like a false dilemma. There's a big gap between "dangerous" and "not ready".

Yes it is. However, it's us humans that are dangerous. The consistency is the un-predictableness of human stupidly (refer "The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity", Carlo M. Cipolla).

 

[Matias]

I purchased the FSD option on my Model 3 after seeing the price going up. I didn’t purchase it when it was first mentioned but instead purchased EAP and ended up getting it when it was an additional $2k totaling $7k. Now it’s $10k. I knew and understood that the features would be released over time and one day it would be fully autonomous. I understand that when a FULL FSD (level 5) gets released I’d be set knowing that I already paid for it at a lower price. At the moment I am satisfied knowing that they are working on releasing features and excited about the new beta they released. I don’t remember them giving an exact date for the full FSD to be released. I got what I paid for. I don’t see it as fraud on Elon/Tesla’s end IMO.

What if Tesla is not able to release Full fsd to you car? You can’t transfer it to another car.

 

[jimm01]

What if Tesla is not able to release Full fsd to you car? You can’t transfer it to another car.

FSD being software purchasers probably don't actually own it, just a license to use it. What does the agreement state?

 

[arri]

FSD being software purchasers probably don't actually own it, just a license to use it.

Dunno, if you are technical enough you could identify FSD as hardware and software. BUT... you could also specify it as a feature of your car, just like 'it is green' and 'it can full self drive'. Also, just like paint, you cannot install your FSD license on anything new. Only on a Tesla with MCU2+ and HW3. So it would be worthless if your next car is a BMW.

Wonder what the value of the car with FSD will be when/if Tesla delivers a non-Beta version. Because if I sell my car right now, the FSD is a next-to-worthless option in a trade-in situation. But if it works, the car -robotaxi?-, might be $20.000+ euro more valuable than a non-self-driving-horse.

 

[linux-works]

You really ougt to talk with a defamation attorney before stating and repeating a demonstrably false statement.

oh yeah? which of those is PROVABLY false?

 

[linux-works]

I've heard of them. They do whatever they're supposed to do, which isn't much compared to what my car does.
The question is: Is my car going to get better?
Tesla: Yes
MobilEye: No

That, for me, is a decisive question.

mobileeye is a leader in the field.

a lot dont know that. but that's ok, a lot here are just consumers and not actually IN the field.

those of us who are in the field have great respect for mobileeye and what they can do.

and it would require NDA to get more specific, which I will not.

just believe this: mobileeye is not 2nd to tesla. it may actually be the other way around, but because M.E. is not a consumer company (they deal only with OEMs) you wont know about their progress and how they do what they do, and what car companies need to do in order to integrate ME's special sauce.

wish those who dont know would just keep quiet. bad info is worse than no info.

 

[helvio]

mobileeye is a leader in the field.

a lot dont know that. but that's ok, a lot here are just consumers and not actually IN the field.

those of us who are in the field have great respect for mobileeye and what they can do.

and it would require NDA to get more specific, which I will not.

just believe this: mobileeye is not 2nd to tesla. it may actually be the other way around, but because M.E. is not a consumer company (they deal only with OEMs) you wont know about their progress and how they do what they do, and what car companies need to do in order to integrate ME's special sauce.

wish those who dont know would just keep quiet. bad info is worse than no info.

I feel criticized and corrected, but I don't think I said anything wrong. They might have alien tech, I don't care. I made it very clear what I care. I care that my car gets better over time. Does ME deliver that? I don't think so - not yet. So when shopping for a car, because L4/L5 does not exist, if I buy a ME car, I'll have to buy another one in the future if I want an AV. With a Tesla, it will get better over time. Maybe to the point of autonomy. If Tesla fails, I'll have to buy another car if I want it. So no loss. If they succeed, yay me. If autonomy isn't reached in my lifetime, at least I have a car that farts.