FSD rewrite will go out on Oct 20 to limited beta

[EVNow]

What would watered down FSD beta features look like? Only right turns?

What would actually be useful to me (apart from full FSD as in Beta)
* Handle various situations to go straight
- EAP on roads without center / side markings
- Handle round about
- Stop signs / traffic lights without needing intervention
- Drive around stopped cars, pedestrians, cyclists

* Bonus
- Turn on confirmation

 

[andrewFW]

To me, it's pretty much all or nothing. It's neat to see it do what it's able to from a techie perspective, but from an actual helpfulness perspective it's more work to swap between manual driving and autopilot than just full manual driving. Keeping up with what it can and can't do is a big cognitive load that I could see being distracting.

 

[Cyclegamer]

If they are going to do a neutered FSD release then I'd imagine we'll get all the functionality that FSD Beta has EXCEPT that it will require confirmation (either stalk or pedal) to act on intended movements.

Maybe...I guess we will find out next week.

 

[diplomat33]

Seeing videos of the problems that FSD Beta has, it is not ready for wide release yet IMO. So yeah, I think Tesla is smart to keep FSD Beta to a small number of testers right now. I think it would be a mistake to release the current FSD Beta to the wide fleet. And they can release a neutered FSD containing mini features that are safe enough and get more data while they make FSD better.

 

[turnem]

Seeing videos of the problems that FSD Beta has, it is not ready for wide release yet IMO. So yeah, I think Tesla is smart to keep FSD Beta to a small number of testers right now. I think it would be a mistake to release the current FSD Beta to the wide fleet. And they can release a neutered FSD containing mini features that are safe enough and get more data while they make FSD better.

Just curious. How do you think FSD Beta compares to using AP on city streets today?

To me - it's head and shoulders better and safer than what we have today. I could totally see them rolling out FSD with "confirmation" for turns in the very near future.

Many seem to forget what the current AP limitations are and that it requires FULL driver attention in order to avoid accidents.

 

[diplomat33]

Just curious. How do you think FSD Beta compares to using AP on city streets today?

To me - it's head and shoulders better and safer than what we have today. I could totally see them rolling out FSD with "confirmation" for turns in the very near future.

Many seem to forget what the current AP limitations are and that it requires FULL driver attention in order to avoid accidents.

FSD Beta is more capable than the current AP. But I am not sure which is more reliable. FSD Beta does make some of the same mistakes that the current AP does, like trying to center itself in the middle of the lane when it is supposed to bias the left lane. FSD Beta also makes new mistakes like missing left turns. Also, FSD Beta will be used in many more scenarios which will require more driver attention. The current AP has the advantage that drivers probably won't use it very often on city streets since it is less capable. I know I rarely use the current AP on city streets. But owners will use FSD Beta more on city streets so they will need to be more vigilant.

Here is a video that shows a bunch of problems with FSD Beta. Some of them are minor driving policy issues but some of the issues could potentially be very unsafe. When I see FSD beta almost hitting parked cars and missing turns and almost hitting stopped cars in the incoming lane, trying to go straight when it is in the turn lane, or trying to go through red lights, those are more serious and it makes me skeptical that FSD Beta is ready for wide release.

Go to 14:12 for the bad cases.

 

[EVNow]

I know I rarely use the current AP on city streets. But owners will use FSD Beta more on city streets so they will need to be more vigilant.

I use it all the time. The above features I posted will it much more usable. AP needs to be map aware so that it can proceed on the lane straight ahead of the current lane at junctions.

 

[turnem]

FSD Beta is more capable than the current AP. But I am not sure which is more reliable. FSD Beta does make some of the same mistakes that the current AP does, like trying to center itself in the middle of the lane when it is supposed to bias the left lane. FSD Beta also makes new mistakes like missing left turns. Also, FSD Beta will be used in many more scenarios which will require more driver attention. The current AP has the advantage that drivers probably won't use it very often on city streets since it is less capable. I know I rarely use the current AP on city streets. But owners will use FSD Beta more on city streets so they will need to be more vigilant.

Here is a video that shows a bunch of problems with FSD Beta. Some of them are minor driving policy issues but some of the issues could potentially be very unsafe. When I see FSD beta almost hitting parked cars and missing turns and almost hitting stopped cars in the incoming lane, trying to go straight when it is in the turn lane, or trying to go through red lights, those are more serious and it makes me skeptical that FSD Beta is ready for wide release.

Go to 14:12 for the bad cases.

You make a good point about the number of people that use AP (not FSB Beta) on city streets today and maybe this "softly" identifies groups of people that are more bearish on FSD and those that are more bullish on FSD.

I use AP on city streets every single time I get into the car. For me... FSD Beta would be a huge improvement/upgrade in just about every scenario. I'm always in full control of the car and I pay very close attention while using AP... you HAVE to. It's just not trust-worthy enough to do anything else.

I can easily understand how those that rarely (or never) use AP on city streets would feel that FSD Beta is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[arghx7]

The latest FSD Beta videos show better lane centering from the "Beta 7" release, so that's an improvement. I do agree though, there have been enough sketchy close calls even in the newest versions that a wide release of all capabilities would be too dangerous. It seems to do the best on wide suburban city streets with clearly marked lanes and simple intersections. Funky intersections with roads and traffic lights coming together at non 90 degree angles it is still struggling with. Unprotected left turns are not safe and natural yet.

 

[arghx7]

if they just released an update to AP/TACC that didn't do hard braking for turning/crossing traffic it would be a big upgrade to the "liveability" of it. Right now if you are on TACC and a car crosses in front of you, it's going to brake unnecessarily hard, and passengers find that upsetting.

 

[willow_hiller]

Seeing videos of the problems that FSD Beta has, it is not ready for wide release yet IMO.

As an exercise in learning from history, I went digging through our old posts to find this: Elon: "Feature complete for full self driving this year"

Back on April 16 we were both convinced that the gear-stalk confirmation traffic control feature was too rough to be released widely, and then 8 days later on April 24 it went public.

I'm expecting the unexpected for the holiday firmware.

 

[diplomat33]

As an exercise in learning from history, I went digging through our old posts to find this: Elon: "Feature complete for full self driving this year"

Back on April 16 we were both convinced that the gear-stalk confirmation traffic control feature was too rough to be released widely, and then 8 days later on April 24 it went public.

I'm expecting the unexpected for the holiday firmware.

Yes, I remember.

Although I would point out that FSD Beta is orders of magnitude more complex than one feature like traffic control.

But you might be right. Maybe Tesla will surprise us and release FSD Beta in its entirety over the holiday but with stalk confirmations.

 

[turnem]

Yes, I remember.

Although I would point out that FSD Beta is orders of magnitude more complex than one feature like traffic control.

But you might be right. Maybe Tesla will surprise us and release FSD Beta in its entirety over the holiday but with stalk confirmations.

This is what I'm thinking is going to happen (FSD with confirmations released widely). I just don't know if it's coming before the end of the year or early in 2021.

 

[arghx7]

by the rather broad definition of "feature complete full self driving" , I do agree that it is close enough to "feature complete." Like the features are complete. Do they work well enough that you'd prefer to use them over manual driving? only in some circumstances. I often take an unprotected left out of my neighborhood on to a busy 5 lane road. Unless the next update changes significantly, I wouldn't trust FSD beta to do it right now.

 

[Cyclegamer]

by the rather broad definition of "feature complete full self driving" , I do agree that it is close enough to "feature complete." Like the features are complete. Do they work well enough that you'd prefer to use them over manual driving? only in some circumstances. I often take an unprotected left out of my neighborhood on to a busy 5 lane road. Unless the next update changes significantly, I wouldn't trust FSD beta to do it right now.

It’s the complete opposite for me. I am about 95 percent sure, the current iteration of FSD beta can get me to work and back (30 min 1 way) with relative ease. Their aren’t many left turns getting to work or home.

 

[EVNow]

by the rather broad definition of "feature complete full self driving" , I do agree that it is close enough to "feature complete." Like the features are complete.

I'd not call FSD feature complete (NHTSA guidance) but FSD as defined by Tesla marketing on the website may be complete. There are two items I'm not sure about
- Turn signals (I guess they are handled ...)
- Navigate a Parking Lot and Locate Spaces (This is not yet done)

 

[82bert]

Yeah, I’d love to see evidence they’re working on a truly functional smart summon with reverse summon. Fingers crossed they are.

 

[mtndrew1]

Yes, I remember.

Although I would point out that FSD Beta is orders of magnitude more complex than one feature like traffic control.

But you might be right. Maybe Tesla will surprise us and release FSD Beta in its entirety over the holiday but with stalk confirmations.

Honestly aside from unprotected left turns, FSD looks nearly capable enough for wide release as a user-enabled beta (this could kill you, click here to enable), particularly with stalk confirmation for right turns and roundabouts.

Current city autopilot does the same wonky crap as FSD and there haven’t been any calamities.

At the very least I could see fully automatic stoplights and stalk confirmed right turns in the near future.

 

[Knightshade]

Current city autopilot does the same wonky crap .

There is no current city autopilot.

The current system actively states not to use it on city streets at all in the owners manual.

 

[mtndrew1]

There is no current city autopilot.

The current system actively states not to use it on city streets at all in the owners manual.

Right. They also specifically added stop lights, stop signs, lane changes, etc to city driving. Then they removed many confirmation limitations. Tesla directly encourages and allows this behavior (traffic light control isn’t exactly useful on the freeway so...) to test and improve the system.

I could see the exact same “FSD-lite” implementation with the exact same verbiage in the manual. It’s their MO.