FSD Runs Yellow Lights

[tls]

Unexpectedly my Y offered me FSD yesterday.

Driving down from the Catskills to northern NYC:

* Good on local roads in the Catskills. Good on trunk roads like NY 23.

* Nav in this version keeps picking fundamentally insane routes (e.g. NY 100 from Hudson to Yonkers rather than any of the Interstates or parkways. Very strange. Had to drop out of FSD / NOA 3 times to override its weird route choices.

* Tons of highly problematic random braking when in FSD on larger roads. Slowed to nearly 30MPH while transitioning from NOA to FSD just after the I87-NJ17 interchange; then repeatedly braked from 60 to 40 before I overrode it seemingly at random while in light traffic on 17.

Once I got to NYC - it entered an intersection on yellow and proceeded slowly through it after the light turned red. It did this again the next day elsewhere in the city. Not cool!!

It also seems to routinely disengage about 2 blocks short of my set destination. Pretty weird.

I think I will not be using this again for some time.

 

[heavymetalm8r]

Sorry but I have to ask...Unexpectedly offered you FSD? For free? Can you elaborate on that? Thanks.

 

[Supcom]

Unexpectedly my Y offered me FSD yesterday.

Driving down from the Catskills to northern NYC:

* Good on local roads in the Catskills. Good on trunk roads like NY 23.

* Nav in this version keeps picking fundamentally insane routes (e.g. NY 100 from Hudson to Yonkers rather than any of the Interstates or parkways. Very strange. Had to drop out of FSD / NOA 3 times to override its weird route choices.

* Tons of highly problematic random braking when in FSD on larger roads. Slowed to nearly 30MPH while transitioning from NOA to FSD just after the I87-NJ17 interchange; then repeatedly braked from 60 to 40 before I overrode it seemingly at random while in light traffic on 17.

Once I got to NYC - it entered an intersection on yellow and proceeded slowly through it after the light turned red. It did this again the next day elsewhere in the city. Not cool!!

It also seems to routinely disengage about 2 blocks short of my set destination. Pretty weird.

I think I will not be using this again for some time.

You said that FSD ran red lights. But your description stated that the car entered the intersection on a yellow light. That is not running a red light. It's running a yellow light, which is legal.

 

[JulienW]

You said that FSD ran red lights. But your description stated that the car entered the intersection on a yellow light. That is not running a red light. It's running a yellow light, which is legal.

Yes it is ONLY running a red light if the light turns red BEFORE you pass the stop line and enter the intersection.

Also FSD Beta DOSN'T run red lights, the DRIVER does. FSD Beta is an L2 system and legally and technically the driver is in control of the car. You MUST maintain control and if you see Beta is doing something you are not comfortable with you disengage.

 

[derotam]

Also FSD Beta DOSN'T run red lights, the DRIVER does.

Ok yeah sure....but FSD Beta didn't STOP the driver from running the red light... AHH HA!

I never liked these types of comments generally. While from a legal stand point they are correct, from a wanting to see the system work better they aren't helpful. There are all kinds of things that you can blame on the driver....but that doesn't mean the car shouldn't be programed to prevent certain things from happening...if it can.

Speaking to this OP example....while I don't believe that FSD Beta actually ran a red light(passing the stop bar when the light was red...yes lots of rabbit holes we can go down...), doesn't mean that it isn't reasonable to EXPECT that the car would not generally allow that to happen....unless the operator manually presses on the accelerator.

 

[derotam]

Once I got to NYC - it entered an intersection on yellow and proceeded slowly through it after the light turned red.

What did you expect? Did you want the car, while IN the intersection, to just stop and stay in the intersection because the light turned RED, thereby impeding other traffic? This happens to people all the time, they enter an intersection to turn left on a solid green or yellow, but then get stuck as the light turns red because of other traffic that prevented them from making a timely turn. Do I think people(or the car) should do that, no, do I understand why Tesla does the same things as humans, yes.

 

[2101Guy]

For FSD to have been “completed” (CEO’s words) on 12/31/2022, it sure is getting more of a bad rap lately.

 

[nvx1977]

I never liked these types of comments generally. While from a legal stand point they are correct, from a wanting to see the system work better they aren't helpful. There are all kinds of things that you can blame on the driver....but that doesn't mean the car shouldn't be programed to prevent certain things from happening...if it can.

While I certainly understand the desire to see what the car does, I'm never going to let the car try an unsafe and/or illegal move. I also don't want it to curb my wheels, so my threshold for disengaging is actually quite sensitive. This came after some experience using FSDb, so I'm not criticizing the OP for letting the car roll through a questionable light. But yes, the car still does wrong things, so stay vigilant.

 

[Supcom]

Ok yeah sure....but FSD Beta didn't STOP the driver from running the red light... AHH HA!

I never liked these types of comments generally. While from a legal stand point they are correct, from a wanting to see the system work better they aren't helpful. There are all kinds of things that you can blame on the driver....but that doesn't mean the car shouldn't be programed to prevent certain things from happening...if it can.

Speaking to this OP example....while I don't believe that FSD Beta actually ran a red light(passing the stop bar when the light was red...yes lots of rabbit holes we can go down...), doesn't mean that it isn't reasonable to EXPECT that the car would not generally allow that to happen....unless the operator manually presses on the accelerator.

In a year of using FSDb, my car has run a red light only once. That was almost a year ago and it just barely miscalculated the yellow timing. Since then, it has gotten the yellow light timing down pat and has not run a red light.

 

[legendsk]

In 8 months of using FSDß, my car has very frequently accelerated when it should have been decelerating, for instance 4 or 5 cars stopped at a red traffic signal about 1/2 block in front of me. My choices are to immediately disengage - or - allow it to continue to accelerate until it reaches a speed / distance where when I disengage and apply the brakes I will be at the threshold of "hard braking". I have waited too long a few times to see if the car would continue accelerating until the actual collision and then been forced to do hard braking to avoid a collision. (Before deciding to give it a chance, I check to make sure there isn't anyone close enough behind me to be a problem.) It continues to behave in this bad dangerous manner.

A related, (I believe), issue is that while the nav lady is screaming, "In 500 feet, turn right at the next exit. Turn right now. At the first opportunity please make a U turn.", it will blow by an exit at 55 to 75 mph.

This being Texas, there are roads with a 75 mph speed limit and 4-way stop intersections - generally with a warning stop sign well in advance of the intersection and of course, always with nice large red and white clearly visible stop signs. My car will blow through these at 75 mph about 80% of the time. At least 80% of the times I have felt safe in giving it the reins to see what it would do.

In normal driving with other vehicles around, I simply can't give it the opportunity to make bad decisions that will / could create a problem.

When I got the car 8 months ago it was so erratic with doing dangerous stupid things that it was unpleasant to drive, because it forced me to be on such a high alert status. Did that make me a safer driver? I don't really know, I suppose that is possible? I do have Tesla insurance and really need to maintain a high safety score, so I simply can't afford to continue allowing it to experiment at driving.

For the last 6 months I have received software updates, I'm thinking 5 or 6 of them. Each update has made the car a little worse in some ways and a little more erratic with one exception - it has become very consistent about wanting to turn into a neighbor's drive that is about 6 blocks from my car port and when I override it, begins demanding I make a U-turn and go back to it. About 80% of the time if I allow the car to drive, it will ignore the nav lady's turn request or turn left when she demands I turn right. Occasionally when she says "In one mile, turn right on xxxxx", it will immediately move to the left lane and stay there, then at the intersection turn on its right signal like a good boy and turn right, across 3 lanes of traffic (if there had been any traffic there).

 

[derotam]

While I certainly understand the desire to see what the car does, I'm never going to let the car try an unsafe and/or illegal move. I also don't want it to curb my wheels, so my threshold for disengaging is actually quite sensitive. This came after some experience using FSDb, so I'm not criticizing the OP for letting the car roll through a questionable light. But yes, the car still does wrong things, so stay vigilant.

I completely agree with everything you said...I too have tons of disengagements because I too will not allow the car to do something dangerous, questionable perhaps but then only if there is a great safety margin that I can abort before it gets gets into an unsafe situation(like pulling into an intersection for a left turn when there is not a good chance of making the turn before the light turns yellow/red)...perhaps you disagreed with me because of a misinterpretation of what I was trying to say?

My point is that there are some people her who see any error with the car and because they don't want to criticize Tesla in any way they just boiler plate say that no matter what it is the drivers fault...and I agree with that statement but what ALSO needs to be said is BUT....Tesla COULD make some changes in its behavior to avoid certain situations in the future. That is actually the point of Tesla and the OTA's...to make continual IMPROVEMENTS.

So I am curious as to what I said that you disagreed with.

 

[derotam]

In a year of using FSDb, my car has run a red light only once. That was almost a year ago and it just barely miscalculated the yellow timing. Since then, it has gotten the yellow light timing down pat and has not run a red light.

Yep, and this kind of reinforces my point...The car did something that you the driver shouldn't have let it do but did and the car did anyway....and then there was improvement in the car presumably due to OTA's.

We can blame the driver for everything, but that doesn't mean we can't expect improvement in the system.

 

[zoomer0056]

doesn't mean that it isn't reasonable to EXPECT that the car would not generally allow that to happen

A triple negative, help me figure this out.
doesn't mean(isn't reasonable car won't)
Apply doesn't to isn't and won't.
=> is reasonable car will . . .allow that to happen

 

[derotam]

A triple negative, help me figure this out.
doesn't mean(isn't reasonable car won't)
Apply doesn't to isn't and won't.
=> reasonable car will

Hey, it's been a long day.... basically, the car should not run red lights, and it is reasonable for people to expect that the car would not run a red light. We can blame the driver for runing the red light, but if the car is running FSDb then it should not be running red lights.

 

[yser]

You said that FSD ran red lights. But your description stated that the car entered the intersection on a yellow light. That is not running a red light. It's running a yellow light, which is legal.

It did ran red for me few builds ago (in nov 2022), see telsacam video 2022.36.20 (FSD Beta) ran the red light today , but of late, it seems to get the timing right on yellows. Seeing a few more quirks in my daily route, waiting to see if 11 solves them. BTW, I'm extremely happy with FSD, use it for 99% of my drives.

 

[nvx1977]

So I am curious as to what I said that you disagreed with.

must have fat fingered it. fixed.

 

[mjwojtukiewicz]

My car tries to stop at a stop sign that is at an angle to the street I'm on, it almost stopped at a flashing yellow light and it almost came to a stop at a railroad crossing. I'm on the latest version BTW. Elon better reduce the price of the cars by ALOT

 

[JulienW]

The title of this Tread is wrong since the OP's car didn't try or run a red light.

 

[zoomer0056]

The title of this Tread is wrong since the OP's car didn't try or run a red light.

True, but the title is attention getting.

 

[JulienW]

True, but the title is attention getting.

Then let's title all Threads "Teslas kill kittens and puppies".