FSD Transfer - NO - but Tesla says it's really OK

[tm1v2]

Yes ... Merc thought Tesla "panel gaps" was also a joke ... look who is laughing now

@EVNow It turns out that perfectly even panel gaps aren't really the top priority in a car for many of us. Shocking, I know!

I like many Mercedes-Benz cars, but they've never made anything I wanted to spend my own money on. Never been tempted to buy one, even before going EV. They're just not my kind of cars.

 

[Knightshade]

Btw out of curiosity, does modern Windows attempt to enforce that OEM licenses are only used on the computer they were originally issued for? I recall using OEM-issued license keys on alternate computers without issue. If I wasn't supposed to do that back then I certainly didn't realize it. This would've been Windows XP and 2000, I haven't used Windows on my own computers since the XP heyday.

Modern Windows uses a digital product key on the motherboard itself. If the OEM ships an OEM licensed Win10, you can always reinstall an OEM win10 on that motherboard using the DPK.

There's no "type in this number" sticker on the system anymore to use.

You can't move that license to anything else, it's physically on the system.

There's tools to extract the "type in this number" key from the OS, but it won't activate another copy of windows unless it's on a system from the same OEM, that already has an OEM DPK for Win10. In which case you don't need it anyway.

 

[Bouba]

I do remember that Bruce Willis sued Apple because he couldn’t leave his I-Tunes collection in his will....I have no idea how he got on...

 

[Ramphex]

They will not let anyone transfer FSD - unless they have a demand problem. As long as they are production constrained, they have little incentive ....

Lucid is now selling their "semi-autonomous" feature for $9k. No description of the features or timeline given.

BTW, OEM Windows is tied to the computer and can't be transferred. Retail Windows is probably 4x the cost of OEM ...

Fact check please

 

[Knightshade]

Fact check please

Sure!

Fact is- If you purchase a system with OEM Windows preinstalled, it is tied to that device and can not legally be transferred to something else.

Only if you buy Windows a standalone product independent of any HW can you transfer it to other HW (by first removing/deactivating it on the old one)


But don't believe me, here's Microsoft telling you that.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/OEM/Windows/10/UseTerms_OEM_Windows_10_English.htm

a. Software preinstalled on device. If you acquired the software preinstalled on a device (and also if you upgraded from software preinstalled on a device), you may transfer the license to use the software directly to another user, only with the licensed device. The transfer must include the software and, if provided with the device, an authentic Windows label including the product key. Before any permitted transfer, the other party must agree that this agreement applies to the transfer and use of the software.

b. Stand-alone software. If you acquired the software as stand-alone software (and also if you upgraded from software you acquired as stand-alone software), you may transfer the software to another device that belongs to you. You may also transfer the software to a device owned by someone else if (i) you are the first licensed user of the software and (ii) the new user agrees to the terms of this agreement. You may use the backup copy we allow you to make or the media that the software came on to transfer the software. Every time you transfer the software to a new device, you must remove the software from the prior device. You may not transfer the software to share licenses between devices.

So the only time you can move the SOFTWARE to a DIFFERENT device is if you bought it entirely by itself.

Most folks with an OEM license got it preinstalled on the box-- and you can not transfer that to different HW- it's tied to the system it came on.

 

[Bouba]

Sure!

Fact is- If you purchase a system with OEM Windows preinstalled, it is tied to that device and can not legally be transferred to something else.

Only if you buy Windows a standalone product independent of any HW can you transfer it to other HW (by first removing/deactivating it on the old one)


But don't believe me, here's Microsoft telling you that.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/OEM/Windows/10/UseTerms_OEM_Windows_10_English.htm

So the only time you can move the SOFTWARE to a DIFFERENT device is if you bought it entirely by itself.

Most folks with an OEM license got it preinstalled on the box-- and you can not transfer that to different HW- it's tied to the system it came on.

We already pay four times it’s worth so we should already own it untethered

 

[EVNow]

Fact check please

.... as someone building my own PCs for 20+ years now .... I know. Not even considering the fact that I worked in MSFT for over a decade.

ps : The price is more for retail windows partly because of support costs compared to OEM Windows where support is handled by OEMs.

We already pay four times it’s worth so we should already own it untethered

If you think it is expensive, don't buy ! If enough people stop buying, they will decrease the price.

BTW, just rebooked Y (my old booking cancelled because we didn't take delivery because of Covid). Didn't order with FSD. Partly because the car is for my wife and she won't use it.

 

[Knightshade]

We already pay four times it’s worth

It's worth exactly what someone will pay for it.

so we should already own it untethered

If car tethering makes it not worth the price to you, don't buy it.

This is a simple concept, yet here we are on page 5 of the 9798th FSD thread that has devolved into folks who don't think it's worth it REALLY wanting to tell people they feel that way.

 

[Ramphex]

Sure!

Fact is- If you purchase a system with OEM Windows preinstalled, it is tied to that device and can not legally be transferred to something else.

Only if you buy Windows a standalone product independent of any HW can you transfer it to other HW (by first removing/deactivating it on the old one)


But don't believe me, here's Microsoft telling you that.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/OEM/Windows/10/UseTerms_OEM_Windows_10_English.htm

So the only time you can move the SOFTWARE to a DIFFERENT device is if you bought it entirely by itself.

Most folks with an OEM license got it preinstalled on the box-- and you can not transfer that to different HW- it's tied to the system it came on.

so FSD sounds more like a standalone product that doesn’t come with the car and we decide whether to purchase or not

Sounds like it should be transferable to another vehicle, especially if the vehicle is destroyed in a crash, fire, etc

 

[Knightshade]

so FSD sounds more like a standalone product that doesn’t come with the car and we decide whether to purchase or not

Sounds like it should be transferable to another vehicle, especially if the vehicle is destroyed in a crash, fire, etc

Nope.

What you buy from Tesla is for them to activate software already loaded on your specific car by Tesla (all wide release firmware has the public FSD code in it, there's just a setting to enable it or not based on if you bought it or are subscribed to it... same for all the other optional SW purchases like acceleration boost-- it's why you don't need a full firmware update when you buy these things to start using them)

it's not like you can buy a "retail" copy of FSD and then you yourself load it on any single car you wish.


Certainly Tesla could decide someday to sell such a thing, say "transferable FSD" for significantly higher cost or something--- much like Microsoft sells retail versions of windows that you can move from 1 PC to another for a higher cost than they do OEM copies.

Right now the nearest thing is the subscription.

 

[bradtem]

I was surprised recently to find that when I built a desktop PC with Windows I was able to use the key from an old laptop (windows 7, upgraded to 10.)

But that's beside the point. People here have said that you can sell your Tesla with FSD to a 3rd party buyer. You just won't get value for it if you trade it back to Tesla. That doesn't make much sense to me, but that's what is reported.
Tesla can take any policy it likes. Customers would like maximum flexibility. Tesla might want to not give it to them, or it might want to make customers happy. It's up to them.

As long as I can sell FSD with my car, that's fine. Even if I want a new Tesla, I will just sell my current one to a 3rd party customer, collect the price of FSD, and then use it to buy FSD again in my new Tesla, if I should want that. Though frankly, I would not want to pay $12K for FSD at present, even if I had just received $12K extra selling my older car.

 

[Ramphex]

Nope.

What you buy from Tesla is for them to activate software already loaded on your specific car by Tesla (all wide release firmware has the public FSD code in it, there's just a setting to enable it or not based on if you bought it or are subscribed to it... same for all the other optional SW purchases like acceleration boost-- it's why you don't need a full firmware update when you buy these things to start using them)

it's not like you can buy a "retail" copy of FSD and then you yourself load it on any single car you wish.


Certainly Tesla could decide someday to sell such a thing, say "transferable FSD" for significantly higher cost or something--- much like Microsoft sells retail versions of windows that you can move from 1 PC to another for a higher cost than they do OEM copies.

Right now the nearest thing is the subscription.

Subscription is a waste of money. You get some gimmicky summon feature and lane change for what? $200/month? That’s absurd lol

 

[Ramphex]

Also that’s like having windows preloaded but not activated on a computer and then once you purchase the activation of it for $12k it’s then locked to that computer. Not a fan.

 

[EVNow]

Subscription is a waste of money. You get some gimmicky summon feature and lane change for what? $200/month? That’s absurd lol

NOA.

Also that’s like having windows preloaded but not activated on a computer and then once you purchase the activation of it for $12k it’s then locked to that computer. Not a fan.

Ofcourse, if you can get it for less, who wouldn’t like it ? It’s like saying S Plaid should be $100k, not $130k.

I prefer the FSD price to be high, as an investor, though.

 

[Knightshade]

Also that’s like having windows preloaded but not activated on a computer and then once you purchase the activation of it for $12k it’s then locked to that computer. Not a fan.

That's literally how things like OEM office installations work.

You get some trial preinstalled by the OEM, but if you want to activate it you have to pay for it, and it's then locked to that computer.

None of this is new.

If you don't like it, don't buy it, pretty simple.

 

[Bouba]

That's literally how things like OEM office installations work.

You get some trial preinstalled by the OEM, but if you want to activate it you have to pay for it, and it's then locked to that computer.

None of this is new.

If you don't like it, don't buy it, pretty simple.

The fact that the program is locked to the hardware doesn’t change the principle of paying for the license. Because Tesla has the ability to remotely switch it on and off it should still be a transferable asset...perhaps just an administrative fee for the effort. FSD is not the only program in the car...in effect we get a new software suite every time we change our Tesla for another....now it gets complicated...because obviously you are paying twice as the software will be a percentage of the car’s price... but we are more fairly compensated for these other systems when we sell the car (especially if the used market is high)...FSD is put in a unique category both by its price and it’s non-transferability

 

[Knightshade]

The fact that the program is locked to the hardware doesn’t change the principle of paying for the license. Because Tesla has the ability to remotely switch it on and off it should still be a transferable asset.

Why?

Microsoft has the ability to let you move an OEM license to another computer, but they also don't allow that.

FSD is not the only program in the car...i

No, but it's one of the few you pay for.

In fact, ALL the ones you pay for are locked to the car

Acceleration boost is a software unlock. Locked to the car you buy it for.

Rear heated seats on SR+ is a software unlock. Locked to the car you buy it for.

Why should FSD be any different? It's not "unique" at all, it works exactly the same as the other locked-to-the-car software unlocks.

 

[EVNow]

At one time 60 kWh battery was soft locked to 40 kWh. You could unlock for $10k.

 

[Ramphex]

Can’t wait until the AppStore comes to TeslaOS and then whatever apps you purchase get trashed with the car when it’s crashed and you then have to repurchase them in your new Tesla

 

[Ramphex]

NOA.



Ofcourse, if you can get it for less, who wouldn’t like it ? It’s like saying S Plaid should be $100k, not $130k.

I prefer the FSD price to be high, as an investor, though.

As an investor you think selling less units for a higher price is more beneficial than selling more units for a lower price?