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FSD Transfer - NO - but Tesla says it's really OK
- Thread starter Hookemhorns
- Start date
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
They get you the same "delivered today" set- they don't promise you the same future ones though.
Pre 3/19 buyers:
EAP gets you a specific set of features- all of which are complete and delivered.
FSD gets you-- stop sign and stop light reaction, and a promise of future L4 or higher driving.
Post 3/19 buyers:
FSD gets you a list of specific features (which does include everything that was in EAP plus the stop sign/light stuff), all BUT ONE of which is already delivered (city streets being the remaining one)- and all of them promised at L2 only.
The pre-3/19 buyers were promised far more. Again I expect if Tesla CAN deliver the "more" everyone will get it-- but if they can't deliver the "more" only the pre 3/19 buyers are "owed" anything for that inability.
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And the experience of early AP1 adopters should make pretty clear that, entitled or not, nobody is getting a refund.
Tesla is a company with a great product and seriously questionable business ethics. They have more money than God but they're not going to hand over any of it to anyone deceived by their past marketing without a fight, which realistically few or none of us have the funds, time, or inclination to engage in. If you choose to repeatedly buy their products - as I have, and likely will again - it is just a thing you have to come to terms with.
Tesla is a company with a great product and seriously questionable business ethics. They have more money than God but they're not going to hand over any of it to anyone deceived by their past marketing without a fight, which realistically few or none of us have the funds, time, or inclination to engage in. If you choose to repeatedly buy their products - as I have, and likely will again - it is just a thing you have to come to terms with.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Only people who bought FSD that promised “door to door driving with no driver input” (or similar) are owed some refund.
I think once FSD beta goes wide and most FSD revenue is recognized, Tesla should refund the remaining revenue (I.e. not recognized) to such people. BTW, it won’t be “$12k” like some people would like to exaggerate … will be more like $1k to $2k.
(Quote moderated)
Why? Just because you don’t like his opinion about what you wrote?
Why? Just because you don’t like his opinion about what you wrote?
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EVNow
Well-Known Member
Because I don’t like personal attacks and it’s against forum rules ?
(Moderator note - Several posts were removed. It would have been interesting to see an argument in favor of the first one, but since it’s author declined to elaborate, I deemed it snippy.
Always feel free to disagree. Just be polite and factual please.)
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boonedocks
MS LR Blk/Blk 19”
that is really the issue at hand. FSD isn't worth $12k to anyone currently. Having added to my 2017 S&X (2 cars) and my 2019 S I absolutely did NOT add it to my 2021 model S. I will gladly pay the $200 when something meaningful actually becomes available.
I seriously think Elon has in his head and convince the "Powers that Be" at Tesla that the price of $12K is what is "should" be if:
1: it ever works
2: owners use is to make money in the Tesla ride sharing netowrk
For family cars and daily drivers the cost in its current state is just delusional!!
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Not really. A few unfortunate souls end up buying into it due to misleading marketing. Doesn't mean they find it to be worth it.
Yeah, that’s my impression. Only one or two people bought FSD. And only because they were tricked. And nobody expected it to take a while. /s
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
In 2021 FSD take rate was estimated to be around 50% for S/X buyers, 19% for Y buyers, and 12.25% for 3 buyers.
Now, those are NA take rates, we don't have good data for overseas... but that means at minimum tens of thousands of FSD buyers in 2021 alone. Not 'a few'
So your claim continues to be complete nonsense in light of actual facts.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
If you lease a car and take the subscription for 3 years the cost would be $6k.
If you lease the car with FSD & if the residual is 50%, you would have paid .... $6k
Point is, take rate has nothing to do with satisfaction rate. Some of those buyers might have more money than sense, a good chunk of them have been duped. What you don't have data on is how many of them find FSD to be worth it. I'd wager it's damn near 0%
Those 2021 numbers likely also include some subscriptions. $200/month that you can cancel at any time is very different from $12k. I doubt many keep it indefinitely.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Careful, you're gonna throw your back out moving those goalposts!
The actual claim that was, and I quote, "FSD isn't worth $12k to anyone currently."
It was worth full price to tens of thousands of people in 2021 alone. As evidenced by all of them choosing to buy it.
Yes, clearly everyone who does something you don't personally think is worth it must be an idiot.
What a rational and sound argument!
No, wait....the opposite of that.
No, they don't. Those are 100% purchases.
In fact, they are only tracking purchases with the car
So the actual take rate if you include people who purchase it AFTER buying the vehicle, is even higher.
And higher still if you were to count subscriptions- which again this data does not.
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What goal posts? "Worth" implies some degree of satisfaction. I've bought plenty of things which were not worth what I paid for in hindsight. You have no data that shows what number of people, if any, felt FSD was in fact worth $12k.
Are they all idiots? No. I do think the vast majority who bought it are either rich enough that $12k is meaningless to them, or they were not familiar with Tesla's long history of broken promises.
According to whom? Tesla themselves don't publish the numbers. So your numbers are clearly from a 3rd party source. How are you delineating whether they're purchases or subscriptions?
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
No, it does not.
Worth, in economic terms is literally what someone is willing to pay for it
And in 2021 many tens of thousands of people were willing to pay for FSD.
So you're trying to discuss the meaning of the numbers while admitting you had no idea what the numbers actually were or how they're gathered?
I mean it's great you're asking NOW, but maybe you ought to have started there before making comments belying your ignorance of what the data actually said?
Anyway, Troy, a well known long time member here, tracks new Tesla purchases and gathers information from the purchasers, including if they bought FSD with the vehicle or not. He's got data on large #s of buyers, plenty enough to represent a valid sample size for the fleet, going back to late 2017, and regularly publishes the results of this data tracking (among other things) FSD take rates quarterly.
So a random forum member who takes data from a spreadsheet that anyone can add to. And you're extrapolating data collected from an enthusiast forum to the overall ownerbase. Real reliable source you've got there
By your definition, if someone gets scammed out of their money, that the scam was worth something. Cool. In that case, yes, FSD is completely worth it despite being a scam.
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