FSD Transfer - NO - but Tesla says it's really OK

[EVNow]

Yes, but that statement is about current practice. The old Tesla.com (RIP!) fora were littered with posts from folks trading in for newer models and not getting jack for FSD. And of course, no credit towards the replacement vehicle's FSD.

Zach can only talk about current practice - not something that happened several quarters back.

ps :

So the next say.com question is, can Tesla allow for FSD to be transferred to another vehicle at a fee, something less than $10,000? Early adopters are paying the price if they want to upgrade their vehicle.

You lose the value on the trade-in and now you have to buy in at a higher cost.

Zach Kirkhorn -- Chief Financial Officer

I don't think that this is widely known, but we're already actually doing the sentiment of what this question is asking. If you trade in your Tesla to Tesla, we -- there's a difference in price that we pay for a trade-in that has FSD compared to one that doesn't. And so there's that premium that we pay to repurchase the FSD. That money can then be applied toward the purchase of a new car.

So I just -- you know, we hear this feedback quite a bit. We see it on social media. We see it in the forums, etc. And so this already does exist, not directly in the form here and we don't call it out explicitly in the trade-in potentially that we have increased the price of your trade-in as a result.

And hopefully, this clears this up because we do actually do that.

 

[rxlawdude]

Zach can only talk about current practice - not something that happened several quarters back.

ps :

So the next say.com question is, can Tesla allow for FSD to be transferred to another vehicle at a fee, something less than $10,000? Early adopters are paying the price if they want to upgrade their vehicle.

You lose the value on the trade-in and now you have to buy in at a higher cost.

Zach Kirkhorn -- Chief Financial Officer

I don't think that this is widely known, but we're already actually doing the sentiment of what this question is asking. If you trade in your Tesla to Tesla, we -- there's a difference in price that we pay for a trade-in that has FSD compared to one that doesn't. And so there's that premium that we pay to repurchase the FSD. That money can then be applied toward the purchase of a new car.

So I just -- you know, we hear this feedback quite a bit. We see it on social media. We see it in the forums, etc. And so this already does exist, not directly in the form here and we don't call it out explicitly in the trade-in potentially that we have increased the price of your trade-in as a result.

And hopefully, this clears this up because we do actually do that.

Of course. That's why I can only comment that this was not the practice for several years in the past. And, of course, Zach didn't exactly say how much more one gets with FSD on a trade-in. Could be $10,000. Could be $500.

FYI, KBB seems to value it around $1,000 for an example private sale of a 2017 M3 LR AWD with 56K miles. $33,484 with FSD vs. $32,440 without.

 

[Draginol]

It definitely seems fair to offer some kind of incentive.

But then - they have almost a year long order-book. So there is hardly any economic reason to do so ...

Very true. It boils down to how much customer loyalty matters to them. Different industries have different metrics on how valuable it is to keep the “whales” happy. I suspect that value is >$0 as $0 is how much it would cost to give someone a FSD credit.

The demographic that Tesla is kind of screwing over are the early adopters who spent >$100k. Normally, these are the kinds of customers companies want to keep. I’m still glad I invested an equal amount in Tesla stock 5 years ago but that’s a different story.

 

[Eno Deb]

I think it would be a very generous move to make FSD as user-locked feature and not a vehicle-locked feature.

Perhaps they could allow for a one-time transfer for those who paid thousands and never got the promised features. I'm not even asking for actual "full self driving" anymore (doubt that will happen this decade), but when I got my car in 2018, it was supposed to also do things like park itself and come find me "anywhere in a parking lot, really". I typically keep my cars around 5 years or so, and I doubt that I will see the promised features actually working properly on my current car.

 

[rxlawdude]

Perhaps they could allow for a one-time transfer for those who paid thousands and never got the promised features. I'm not even asking for actual "full self driving" anymore (doubt that will happen this decade), but when I got my car in 2018, it was supposed to also do things like park itself and come find me "anywhere in a parking lot, really". I typically keep my cars around 5 years or so, and I doubt that I will see the promised features actually working properly on my current car.

It would really be so much easier for Tesla to give credit for FSD to the owner who sold (or lost to accident) their FSD Tesla. Of course, this would only make sense if Tesla removes FSD from the disposed of vehicle prior to the sale. If this were to be the policy, unscrupulous sellers might not tell the buyer that FSD will be removed upon transfer.

Not that any Tesla owner would be unscrupulous.

 

[Draginol]

Perhaps they could allow for a one-time transfer for those who paid thousands and never got the promised features. I'm not even asking for actual "full self driving" anymore (doubt that will happen this decade), but when I got my car in 2018, it was supposed to also do things like park itself and come find me "anywhere in a parking lot, really". I typically keep my cars around 5 years or so, and I doubt that I will see the promised features actually working properly on my current car.

I agree. Even a one time transfer would satisfy most people. I’m in the same boat. 5 years is how long I usually keep a car at most. I was planning to replace this car with the new Roadster. But at present, I can’t imagine doing that unless Tesla does right by us.

 

[Ramphex]

It would really be so much easier for Tesla to give credit for FSD to the owner who sold (or lost to accident) their FSD Tesla. Of course, this would only make sense if Tesla removes FSD from the disposed of vehicle prior to the sale. If this were to be the policy, unscrupulous sellers might not tell the buyer that FSD will be removed upon transfer.

Not that any Tesla owner would be unscrupulous.

That’s why you make it person specific. Not vehicle specific. All of the above issues become non issues

 

[Usain]

Well they didn’t as of last quarter. I requested a trade in, got a price, purchased FSD, requested a new trade in quote, guess what? Same price.

Count me as another poster who doesn't believe you. Papers please!

 

[nvx1977]

FYI, KBB seems to value it around $1,000 for an example private sale of a 2017 M3 LR AWD with 56K miles. $33,484 with FSD vs. $32,440 without.

This is interesting. I don't think KBB values things arbitrarily. I wonder if $1k is what they deem what a reasonable person would value FSD in its current state based on all the used sales they see with Teslas with and without FSD.

I just ran a 2019 Model 3 thru kbb and the value of FSD was still $1000.

 

[Unclepaul]

If your Tesla is totaled, your insurance company will give you enough $ to replace it. If you had FSD, they will look for compatible auction or website sales of like vehicles to determine their offer. If you can find FSD cars equipped like yours you can send that to their adjuster who will take it into consideration.

Does not matter what you paid for FSD or current pricing. Just what similar cars are being offered for sale near you.

 

[rxlawdude]

If your Tesla is totaled, your insurance company will give you enough $ to replace it. If you had FSD, they will look for compatible auction or website sales of like vehicles to determine their offer. If you can find FSD cars equipped like yours you can send that to their adjuster who will take it into consideration.

Does not matter what you paid for FSD or current pricing. Just what similar cars are being offered for sale near you.

And that's why the KBB values are relevant.

 

[Sharps97]

If KBB is anything to go by, Tesla does not actually give you more money for having FSD vs. not. However, it does sound nice and I’m sure they will continue to say that they do. But right now I’d say Tesla is effectively valuing FSD at $0.00 if the trade in is anything to go by. Since Teslas are hard to value given the constant price adjustments and overall size of the market, it would be difficult to prove to a legal standard one way or the other. It doesn’t matter too much to me as what is done is done, but make no mistake that Tesla isn’t going to give you any kind of a deal or break on something that is all profit for them.

 

[rxlawdude]

(omitted text)

I see your handle and can't stop thinking about this product... (it's the pharmacist in me)

Presumably, your container is nicer.

 

[mobilesuit818]

I can confirm Tesla does not give you a dime more for FSD, now or 2 years ago

The same goes in the car selling market.

I sold my Model 3 with FSD 3 years ago,.

Like an idiot, bought another one with FSD, traded for a Y in Jan 2020.

Selling my LR Y now with FSD, and no matter where you go, they dont list it as an option/feature.

So to summarize, I paid for FSD 3x time, full price and never had that feature and didnt qualify for Beta cause Los Angeles drive like asshats.

I wish they would let me transfer one time but until then i will never buy FSD again.

I could have taken all the money I spent and bought TSLA stock and would have easily made easy $$.

 

[tm1v2]

I could have taken all the money I spent and bought TSLA stock and would have easily made easy $$.

This ^. If you want to give Tesla extra financial help, put that money into TSLA so you can at least get a return on your investment!

Tesla is basically crowdfunding by selling FSD before the product even exists in a usable, worthwhile state. But unlike most things you might crowdfund, you have to keep your same car to have a chance of eventually getting the product, and the development timeframe is many years long minimum.

KBB's $1k valuation sounds about right for the value of FSD right now. Objectively it's not worth even that, but car buyers have money, the visualizations look fun, the "Beta" functionality can serve as a party trick or boredom-relief, and there's a chance something useful will come of it before you sell the car or it gets totaled.

$10k is bonkers. I might feel differently if it was transferable, though I still wouldn't buy it until it actually exists in a useful state.

The other lesson here: If you want to buy Tesla's "FSD," buy used!

 

[ohmman]

Moderator Note: 6 posts moved to snippiness. FSD really brings out the personal attack bug, but we'd prefer to avoid those here if possible. Thanks for sticking to the subject matter and not the members who are posting about it.

 

[Fernand]

You know, it's us early buyers who purchased EAP who are most justifiably angry at the lack of transferability. EAP gave us the most valuable component, namely NOA, which, given some practice, works very well from onramp to offramp on freeways. By upgrading to "FSD" we truly got nothing additional. Even now, driving with "FSD" beta, it's the NOA on freeways that's the useful feature.

But the majority who bought FSD after EAP was discontinued, got NOA with auto-lanes changes etc. Maybe not a robotaxi, and the value/price is open to debate, but they shouldn't be moaning about how they got "absolutely nothing at all" for the money.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

So I just -- you know, we hear this feedback quite a bit. We see it on social media. We see it in the forums, etc. And so this already does exist, not directly in the form here and we don't call it out explicitly in the trade-in potentially that we have increased the price of your trade-in as a result.

It's hilarious how this thread attacked people reporting that Tesla didn't give them anything for FSD, but some how this statement from Zach is allowed without question?

This Zach guy needs to show his proof.

 

[tm1v2]

Fair point about the EAP features having some value and needing to pay for full FSD for that now.

To me personally EAP wouldn't be worth much over base AP, all I really care about is ACC/TACC which is now standard. After that I don't care much until true self-driving, where I can pay no attention at all, becomes available on the market. I think Tesla is extremely far from that still, and I think their technological approach makes it even more difficult than it has to be. (Which is very difficult regardless!)

But I recognize many find EAP helpful/worthwhile.

I also appreciate all y'all Tesla FSD beta testers, if your testing helps get us closer to true self-driving!

 

[EVNow]

It's hilarious how this thread attacked people reporting that Tesla didn't give them anything for FSD, but some how this statement from Zach is allowed without question?

This Zach guy needs to show his proof.

LOL. I'm not going to respond to this - as apparently when I respond, my posts get moved to "snippiness"