FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[enemji]

Keep an eye out! You’ll see it.

My particular test was at night, no other vehicles, unmarked residential streets.

I get better range estimates post my trips that are full FSD vs when I drive it myself.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So, are we really at a point where the biggest issue with FSDb is how comfortably it slows?

No. There are a variety of issues. See V11 thread

Er, when was the last time you were on a plane as it landed???

I get better range estimates post my trips that are full FSD vs when I drive it myself.

I don't think anything being discussed here is likely to have a particularly significant effect on range.

Obviously the energy screen is highly dependent on many factors which will far outweigh any tiny amount of friction brake use.

 

[enemji]

I get better range estimates post my trips that are full FSD vs when I drive it myself.

Why

 

[enemji]

Obviously the energy screen is highly dependent on many factors which will far outweigh any tiny amount of friction brake use.

Such as the fact it will use regenerative braking more and better than when I drive it myself

 

[aronth5]

So, are we really at a point where the biggest issue with FSDb is how comfortably it slows?

I would rank how well FSD slows down as just about my lowest priority.
Starting to pull out in front of on coming traffic is easily #1.

 

[S100D]

Do people think Tesla has trained end-to-end so far on clear weather data or more that heavy rain situations require significantly more variety of data to behave correctly? I experienced 11.4.9 neural networks failing for Moving objects but were fine for Lanes with what showed up as a relatively small blurry patch on the main camera:

It does not matter how much Tesla trains FSD using Tesla Vision. When the cameras get wet in heavy rain, FSD at first will slow down 10 mph and later if the cameras cannot see, FSD disengages.

 

[uscbucsfan]

It does not matter how much Tesla trains FSD using Tesla Vision. When the cameras get wet in heavy rain, FSD at first will slow down 10 mph and later if the cameras cannot see, FSD disengages.

FSD used to disengage, but doesn't anymore. Regardless of how hard it's raining.

I have seen it slow down 20mph under the speed limit.

 

[S100D]

FSD used to disengage, but doesn't anymore. Regardless of how hard it's raining.

I have seen it slow down 20mph under the speed limit.

What firmware version and hardware version (HW3/HW4) are you on?

 

[uscbucsfan]

What firmware version and hardware version (HW3/HW4) are you on?

I have 2 cars on HW 3 at 2023.44.30.7, but even when the wipers wouldn't work in a hurricane on older revisions of v11, it hasn't disengaged.

V10 would degrade to AP, but V11 will just keep reducing speed if it's blind.

 

[ngng]

FSD used to disengage, but doesn't anymore. Regardless of how hard it's raining.

I have seen it slow down 20mph under the speed limit.

My favorite is when I doing 75 and there’s a 55 speed zone and it slams on the brakes with a car behind me

 

[Dewg]

My favorite is when I doing 75 and there’s a 55 speed zone and it slams on the brakes with a car behind me

Hasn't happened since FSD Beta took over the AP stack. Are you on FSD Beta?

 

[uscbucsfan]

Hasn't happened since FSD Beta took over the AP stack. Are you on FSD Beta?

Agreed. Now it will slam on brakes if a truck is beside you.

 

[Dewg]

Agreed. Now it will slam on brakes if a truck is beside you.

This is incorrect as well. It will shift in the lane away from the truck, and then shift back to center as it passes the truck. That is the correct behavior.

 

[uscbucsfan]

This is incorrect as well. It will shift in the lane away from the truck, and then shift back to center as it passes the truck. That is the correct behavior.

Mine on both cars slams on brakes, every time

And from other groups, it's common behavior

 

[Dewg]

Mine on both cars slams on brakes, every time

And from other groups, it's common behavior

Mine does not, and mine is the correct behavior. When you mention poor performance, like slamming on the brakes when you are near a truck, make sure you say "In my experience" or "My car...", etc. Otherwise you're making a declarative statement as if the entire fleet experiences this. It does not.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Otherwise you're making a declarative statement as if the entire fleet experiences this. It does not.

The most likely scenario is that the entire fleet will experience this occasionally if several users have noticed the behavior.

Conditions just have to be right. Often everything will be just fine.

I have definitely had this happen once, but I have also passed many trucks without it happening. Unless they are sticking into my lane of course in which case I have to take over since FSD cannot handle it (does not know to change lanes, assuming there are three lanes on city streets, as is typical for me).

 

[Mardak]

There should not be anything special needed for other vehicles. Just slow down correctly and use the brakes if necessary to match the desired profile.

How do you think an end-to-end control system would predict or make use of a motion profile when driving? Are you expecting some C++ heuristics to do that as some post-processing of the neural network outputs basically limiting or smoothing out deceleration?

I could see how a motion profile could be used during training for end-to-end, but that shouldn't be as necessary if it already learns to drive with a more human-like profile.

 

[Iain]

Mine does not, and mine is the correct behavior. When you mention poor performance, like slamming on the brakes when you are near a truck, make sure you say "In my experience" or "My car...", etc. Otherwise you're making a declarative statement as if the entire fleet experiences this. It does not.

Mine works like yours and it even rained in SD a few days ago and my wipers finally worked correctly.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Mine does not, and mine is the correct behavior. When you mention poor performance, like slamming on the brakes when you are near a truck, make sure you say "In my experience" or "My car...", etc. Otherwise you're making a declarative statement as if the entire fleet experiences this. It does not.

Again, it's a commonly reported issue since v11 released along with the car entering turn lanes.

Yours may not, but it's not a rare one off occurance.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I could see how a motion profile could be used during training for end-to-end,

Yeah either that or use only good examples for training for v12.

Probably best to train with a profile, but it is possible that won’t work for some reason and it is also perhaps harder to iterate that way long term - you’ve just moved the tuning problem burden elsewhere.

I don’t see how they will avoid using a profile, since very few examples exist of people who stop at stops signs when no traffic is present, and those which do are probably not the ones which you’d want to train on, for obvious reasons!