FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[KArnold]

Will FSD 12 make basic autopilot work better?

I currently am not happy enough with basic auto pilot to use it.

Someday hopefully. I doubt it will happen out of the gate. I'm personally expecting some serious regressions compared to v11 in the early releases.

Especially given Tesla's snafu with the 2023.44.30.* releases, I am not in a big hurry to try this. I would encourage patience to wait a bit after mass release before installing.

 

[JB47394]

I'm just gonna wait until I can see how it handles my drives with my car and my perceptions.

The one thing that I want from V12 is for Tesla to demonstrate that they have control over the system. That they can make it sit up and beg, roll over and play dead. It's okay that HW3 is an old dog that can't do a lot, but I want Tesla to demonstrate that they can realize its potential.

 

[rlsd]

Will FSD 12 make basic autopilot work better?

I currently am not happy enough with basic auto pilot to use it.

Probably the same question: Does v11.4.9 makes basic autopilot work better? I doubt it because I tried autopilot when doing additional camera recabliration and found its is not as good as FSD autopilot on freeways.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Elon at earnings call: "V12 our most advanced version of PSD has gone live to users. In the next several weeks everyone should get it. We want to be slow and cautious for safety. ..."

You mis-spelled "PTSD"...

Cheers!

 

[Artful Dodger]

Just putting in his comments verbatim:

https://x.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1749250171383542078?s=20

“My first two drives with FSD 12 were both zero intervention. No accelerator press. No speed change. No takeover. No awkward moments.”

https://x.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1749250622552256866?s=20
“Major improvements in every category #FSD12“

https://x.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1749250952329355336?s=20
“FSD 12 takes speed bumps down to 8”

https://x.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1749251109133353426?s=20
“FSD Beta 12 takes off from stop signs like a human”

https://x.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1749252144929325157?s=20
“You know when you have to go around a stopped car, but there’s a car coming from the other side? FSD 12 can do that without stopping and waiting for the oncoming car if possible”

https://x.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1749252681150120140?s=20
“Fsd 12 pulls over just like elon’s livestream”

https://x.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1749252916383543363?s=20
“There’s this one section of Lombard Street where for years FSD would read the wrong traffic light on the other side and slow down for no reason FSD 12 handled it flawlessly”

https://x.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1749254048350613752?s=20
“Very little hesitation #FSD12”

https://x.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1749254144236675146?s=20
“Human like. You can tell it was trained to mimic humans #FSD12”

https://x.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1749254236062572768?s=20
“In the visualization for FSD Beta 12, the path planner line disappears when the car isn’t moving”

https://x.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1749255171161681993?s=20
“There was this one situation with two fire trucks and fire fighters beside the truck in the path of the car. Kind of weird situation that would trip up FSD 11. FSD 12 handled with no interventions, without doing anything that made anyone uncomfortable”

https://x.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1749255832691515686?s=20
“Oh I forgot to mention. All these first impresssiond of FSD Beta 12 have been in the rain.”

https://x.com/WholeMarsBlog/status/1749256725730152896?s=20
“Tesla AI team, you’ve outdone yourself yet again”

Thanks for digging out that content from X, and posting it here in a readable, permanent form. Grazie!

If only half of this is true, it's a great day!

 

[sleepydoc]

Probably the same question: Does v11.4.9 makes basic autopilot work better? I doubt it because I tried autopilot when doing additional camera recabliration and found its is not as good as FSD autopilot on freeways.

I think there will likely be an eventual trickle down effect but I wouldn't expect to see any differences right away.

 

[sleepydoc]

Thanks for digging out that content from X, and posting it here in a readable, permanent form. Grazie!

If only half of this is true, it's a great day!

Of course, Omar's been doing 'zero intervention' drives for the last 3 years. It's really quite easy to do if you have no qualms or consideration for other drivers, pedestrians, traffic laws, etc!

 

[Artful Dodger]

It's really quite easy to do if you have no qualms or consideration for other drivers, pedestrians, traffic laws, etc!

So you're saying, "more human-like" ?

My comment was in order to thank @Todd Burch for collecting the tweets in a permanent form, otherwise they make a rapid exit down the bit bucket.

So soon enough, we'll know from others (and maybe through our own experiences) how much of Omar's v12 comments are accurate, and thus cheer-worthy.

Cheers!

 

[Artful Dodger]

One way to still achieve that is to increase the strictness of nags and thresholds for heavy rain / poor weather to deactivate 12.1.2:

I think this is the new 'nag' behavior introduced by the NHTSA 'not-a-recall' back in December. I have notice much more nagging, and ALL of it inappropriate, unnecessary, and making for a worse experience, while contributing exactly zero to safety. In fact its worse now, since it is sometimes necessary to disengage FSD just to use the navigation screen.

 

[Artful Dodger]

You think this is the end2end? Or does it sound more like heuristic code aka "for this version, if heavy rain -> limit speed= 60mph & force hand on wheel"...

It's 'end-to-end', with guardrails...

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I think this is the new 'nag' behavior introduced by the NHTSA 'not-a-recall' back in December. I have notice much more nagging, and ALL of it inappropriate, unnecessary, and making for a worse experience, while contributing exactly zero to safety. In fact its worse now, since it is sometimes necessary to disengage FSD just to use the navigation screen.

I think it is great to encourage focus on the road when driving. Fiddling with navigation can be done when stopped, and more latitude is provided there (though not infinite latitude of course since you should be looking at the road when stopped as well).

It’s a good reminder to me to cease and desist with my bad habits.

 

[Artful Dodger]

This sucks - I definitely noticed it on my last drive. any time it even things you’re looking away for more than a second it starts to nag you. (And that’s a literal second, not a figurative one.) The nag system went from being manageable to a royal PITA.

You know that this NHTSA-required edict was forced on users of standard Autopilot too, not just FSD users, right?

So the real question is, have you contacted the NHTSA yet to explain to them in detail how the increased nagging makes all cars less safe now? Because it surely does.

 

[Artful Dodger]

They don't want to kill it early like GM Blue Cruise.

GM had 'Ultra Cruise' until the program was cancelled a week ago.

'BlueCruise' is Ford; a subscription is $75/mth for fewer features than std Tesla Autopilot.

GM also owned the now-halted Cruise autonomous ride hailing service (with 2 operators puppeteers per each car cruising...)

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Because it surely does.

It’s not clear. I am finding that I am forced to pay proper attention to the road. No funny business. I mean, it is possible to engage in funny business, but it is harder.

This seems good. Using the screen is not necessary when driving in most cases. This is why we have voice commands.

I think the monitoring in non-beta was likely lacking before. There was just a small change in the FSD monitoring on the latest NHTSA-driven update - and seemed like an improvement.

Other than an occasional wiggle of the wheel required (annoying - they need to keep working on this), when I have both hands on the wheel and do nothing else with my hands, nags are quite rare (even the torque nags seem correlated with one hand or doing something with one hand).

It’s not perfect and they should drive down the requirement to torque the wheel (false positives) when driver’s hands are on the wheel (they can determine this from the camera, which can see neither the hands nor the wheel - but the can, nevertheless ).

 

[rlsd]

I think there will likely be an eventual trickle down effect but I wouldn't expect to see any differences right away.

Probably for competition with other ADAS vendors and for simplicity of code maintenance, Tesla will make basic autopilot work as the same way as FSD autopilot on freeways. But they will increase the base price for new cars and give free upgrades to existing cars.

 

[Mardak]

I think this is the new 'nag' behavior introduced by the NHTSA 'not-a-recall' back in December. I have notice much more nagging

I'm suggesting that in addition to the NHTSA nags that we now have in FSD Beta 11.x and regular Autopilot, Tesla increased the strictness even more as part of 12.1.1 -> 12.1.2. They already had feedback and metrics from employees testing 12.1.1 to know it behaves poorly especially in heavy rain, so instead of fixing the underlying problem with additional data collection and training to actually change how FSD controls the vehicle (perhaps in 12.2+), they went with a quick fix of adjusting when it can be activated and more nags to really ensure the driver is paying extra attention for an early customer release before earnings call.

To be clear, this 12.1.2 is presumably still very much end-to-end control for when FSD Beta is active, but there is still traditional code handling the activation such as "driver pressed stalk 1x or 2x" (depending on Autosteer setting) or in this case, conditions for deactivating and showing even more nags.

 

[ArchHamster]

I think this is the new 'nag' behavior introduced by the NHTSA 'not-a-recall' back in December. I have notice much more nagging, and ALL of it inappropriate, unnecessary, and making for a worse experience, while contributing exactly zero to safety. In fact its worse now, since it is sometimes necessary to disengage FSD just to use the navigation screen.

I'm not missing an opportunity to trash talk the disgrace that is the nhtsa.

NHTSA when regulating bleeding edge beta software: "Reeeeeeeeee new tech scary, more regulations more more more more."

Also NHTSA when asked to regulate blinding headlights which make it impossible to see the road on backstreets to the point I have to trust fsd beta blindly because it can see in those scenarios better than me: https://www.reddit.com/r/****yourheadlights/s/KhLTtfueIP
Lol at the censored link, here is a screenshot:

"Oh, well the research on blinding blue led headlights isn't in yet, we need to spend 10 more years of taxpayer money researching this carefully."

I hope everyone at the nhtsa get kidney stones, every month, until they quit.

 

[Artful Dodger]

I'm not missing an opportunity to trash talk the disgrace that is the nhtsa.

Yup. Loki said it best:

 

[aronth5]

Some additional positive feedback.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1749254403486281781

 

[Artful Dodger]

Will FSD 12 make basic autopilot work better?
I currently am not happy enough with basic auto pilot to use it.

Probably the same question: Does v11.4.9 makes basic autopilot work better? I doubt it because I tried autopilot when doing additional camera recabliration and found its is not as good as FSD autopilot on freeways.

The logical way for Tesla to configure the software architecture in AP/FSD is to aim to create one software stack that does all the functions, and then make some of those functions optional (ie: automatic lane-changes).

This way, Tesla can make SAFETY a standard feature, and provide CONVENIENCE for an extra-cost. I fully expect that, in the future, Standard Autopilot will have all the safety features of FSD, and Tesla will find clever ways to market the extra-cost features.

For a long time now, I've imagined an "It's Saturday Nite and I had too much, please take me home Elon" button. One-Time for the cost of an Uber. Extra, but you don't have to go retrieve your car in the mourning...

Cheers to the Designated Driver!