FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[FSDtester#1]

FSD 12.3. Assertive. I can try the less assertive modes, though I doubt it will make too much difference.

I'll try, will report at some point. The problem is that on assertive one has to be constantly on the go pedal, so it's tough to see how less assertive would help. But I definitely will change it. These options typically make little difference in fundamental behavior, though of course they change following distance, etc. More distance SHOULD help, but I've found that it usually doesn't. Need to check with v12.3.

San Diego County, Scripps Ranch, Mira Mesa, Sorrento Valley.

Remaining segments. Nothing special or notable.

Mostra to TJ's Hibert St., about 6 miles. About 5 disengagements. One for inappropriate stopping, one for bad lane selection, two for missed or taken exits, one for bad route getting out of Mostra lot. Lots of interventions of course.

Recognized and responded to TJ's speed bumps.

Missing uncomplicated freeway exits (degraded v11 somehow?). Taking the wrong freeway exit prior to that. Obviously not using v12 on the freeways but something is degraded in the handover. SB I-15 Mercy Rd, and Mira Mesa (took Mercy incorrectly, missed Mira Mesa before I took over and made the exit)

Fundamentals:
Can it go? No. It is too slow to follow lead traffic sometimes. Sometimes it follows too closely. When it finally picks up the pace, it is nice and assertive though.
Can it stop? No. It slams on the brakes sometimes and fails to anticipate movements of vehicles ahead, and doesn't seem to be paying attention to red lights. I had a brake slamarama with traffic coming to a stop at an obvious red light. It has the new stutter step decel: very mild jittering of the amount of regen on light regen stops. It can't stop in the right place as mentioned.

ELDA activated as I was trying to parallel park manually. That's new.

Hibert St. TJ's to home:

Residential route. Just ~3 miles. Did ok overall, nice lane changes to get to residential neighborhood street.

Nearly got in a collision at a stop sign. Failed to be to the left (straight was the intended direction) when someone behind was coming up and wanting to turn right. It was slow to the stop, which of course I overrode. But I let it stop and go. Because it sat for so long doing who knows what, driver behind did not anticipate that I would still be there when they came to the stop. And there wasn't room to squeeze by, so they had to slow to avoid collision (was close). This is the danger of incorrect and broken stopping behavior. Need to drive correctly. Stop assertively and gently, then go. It's not that hard.


We haven't really seen any difficult UPLs. So far in easy conditions he's 7/12 or so. He hasn't really done much testing with traffic from the right. Hopefully he'll do another video soon, but will have to wait for the work week.

My UPL this morning was better than last night. No traffic and an easy scenario. It half used the merging lane.

Seeing some very different experiences from different places.
I am in the Southeast.
You try cleaning all camera's, windshield, and recalibration yet?
Once again, speed control, no matter what you choose is a joke.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Seeing some very different experiences from different places.
I am in the Southeast.
You try cleaning all camera's, windshield, and recalibration yet?
Once again, speed control, no matter what you choose is a joke.

Yeah I cleaned all the cameras last night before heading out, since it's been raining (now dry) and things were pretty dirty. No recalibration. I could try it I suppose. Never has made any difference in the past but a first time for everything.

I think people are just on a post-release high. This is normal. People like to see the improvements (while overall not notably better, in specific areas, there are notable substantial improvements!!!) and they discount all the simple mistakes the FSD Driver makes. So they think it's great, when actually it will definitely fail the wife test, and it's still as annoying AF to use in reality.

And it may be super great - it's entirely possible. If they quickly fix all the obvious problems it definitely could be really good. They need to focus on stopping (specifically stop signs, traffic lights, and stopping in the right place), going (maintaining appropriate follow distance at all times), responding to other vehicles and lights, lane selection, and of course speed control. Those are the weaker areas right now. Once those are fixed it will be quite good indeed. But how rapidly it advances is the question.

So far, exactly as I expected, an incremental improvement (in some areas). Currently maybe it is slightly worse overall than v11, but I think it's reasonable to think that getting to better than v11 will not be very difficult since they don't have to address all the things above to get to that point.

 

[rlsd]

I had an out a back today of 38miles each way and I experienced the opposite at lights. I found the braking to be human like. At one intersection, I had a green light but didn't have enough room to clear the intersection as there was a car in my lane on the other side of it. She stopped at the light and when she had enough room to clear it, she did it pro style. Had one disengagment when she didn't want to get on a merge lane.

Publix parking lot was human like, although I didn't have any kids or stupid people to test it.

I found Chill driving mode on aggressive is pro status for the Orlando area. All in all, this version makes me feel like it was worth it.

How do I know my car is a he or a she?

 

[JulienW]

How do I know my car is a he or a she?

Look for these hanging.

 

[Mardak]

Based on TeslaFi numbers for 2023.44.30.{8,14,20,25} so far, looks like these states are around 30% rollout of 12.x:

Arizona (28) 26%
California (198) 21%
Florida (72) 23%
Georgia (25) 23%
Nevada (20) 48%
North Carolina (38) 33%
South Carolina (8) 22%
Texas (88) 25%
Virginia (61) 34%

These others have a few installs of 12.x, so these might still be small percentage (or undetected) rollout for initial testing and evaluation:

Alabama (0)
Alaska (1) 20%
Arkansas (0)
Colorado (0)
Connecticut (0)
Delaware (0)
Hawaii (0)
Idaho (1) 6%
Illinois (2) 2%
Indiana (0)
Iowa (0)
Kansas (1) 4%
Kentucky (0)
Louisiana (2) 10%
Maine (0)
Maryland (0)
Massachusetts (0)
Michigan (2) 2%
Minnesota (0)
Mississippi (0)
Missouri (0)
Montana (0)
Nebraska (0)
New Hampshire (1) 3%
New Jersey (1) 1%
New Mexico (1) 6%
New York (0)
North Dakota (0)
Ohio (0)
Oklahoma (0)
Oregon (1) 1%
Pennsylvania (0)
Rhode Island (1) 6%
South Dakota (0)
Tennessee (0)
Utah (0)
Vermont (1) 8%
Washington (3) 1%
Washington DC (0)
West Virginia (0)
Wisconsin (0)
Wyoming (0)

Similarly, HW4 has a few installs probably also for early testing before wider rollout.

 

[kpanda17]

How is Tesla moving vehicles from 2024.2.x/fsd 11 to 2023.30/fsd 12.3?

 

[JulienW]

How is Tesla moving vehicles from 2024.2.x/fsd 11 to 2023.30/fsd 12.3?

That is NOT possible. You can't go backwards.

 

[kabin]

Yes on Chuck. V12.3 is acing his formerly problematic scenarios. UPLs are good except when the left is clear and it heads out to the median island way too leisurely. I'm not sure what Chuck is going to focus on next, but it wont be narrow unmarked lanes, double green lights, nor (soon) UPLs.

He doesn't too sound happy about losing the turn right to turn left. Personally I'm happy to see that pig go.

 

[Kablooie]

I have a suspicion that the Assertive and Chill modes were reversed by mistake. The car seems to drive faster in Chill mode than in Assertive. I've been driving in Assertive and felt the car was often going too slow. Chill mode seems to fix that.

 

[JulienW]

Chucky is waxing nostalgic and walking down FSD Beta memory lane to 12.3.

 

[KLam]

I have a suspicion that the Assertive and Chill modes were reversed by mistake. The car seems to drive faster in Chill mode than in Assertive. I've been driving in Assertive and felt the car was often going too slow. Chill mode seems to fix that.

Chill means you are chill and FSD can do what it wants. Assertive means you are assertive and like to nit picking, so FSD will do it slowly and make sure its doing OK.

 

[JulienW]

Chill means you are chill and FSD can do what it wants. Assertive means you are assertive and like to nit picking, so FSD will do it slowly and make sure its doing OK.

.....and Average means FSD is better athan the top 90% of drivers.

Get Real: Why over 90% of Americans Think They Are above Average Drivers and How to Know Precisely Who Is and Is Not a Good Driver — Center for Smart Transportation

By Alex Lightman In what is possibly the most talked Swedish study of Americans, researchers found that an astonishing 93% of Americans thought their driving skills were above average, compared to 69% of Swedes.

www.smarttranspo.com

 

[Dewg]

I believe that the Max Speed or Auto Max only sets the maximum speed that the car will go. The car will still select the speed it wants to go up to that limit. What we are seeing is that the car usually does not want to go that fast. Most of the time, this has been less than the speed limit for me, which is too slow.

I've found that to be true for the majority of the time, but I will not say it's the vast majority, nor a hard rule. I've had several times in my limited use where it drives over the speed limit on Auto Max, just because surrounding traffic is moving faster. Just this morning had it doing 48 in a 45. When there is no lead car, and light traffic, I find it goes just below the speed limit - for example: 43/44 in a 45.

 

[JulienW]

I've found that to be true for the majority of the time, but I will not say it's the vast majority, nor a hard rule. I've had several times in my limited use where it drives over the speed limit on Auto Max, just because surrounding traffic is moving faster. Just this morning had it doing 48 in a 45. When there is no lead car, and light traffic, I find it goes just below the speed limit - for example: 43/44 in a 45.

Also you can press the accelerator and up the speed past the Max and it will hold a lot like using the dial.

 

[Dewg]

Also, I disabled auto max speed while driving on city streets and V12 showed the max speed to 85 mph! It didn't try to speed up to 85. It still drove at the speed it thought was appropriate. But curious to see 85. Perhaps that was the auto max speed that it had set at the time?

I have only tested so far with Auto Max enabled, but I am curious about turning it off. If there is no control code anymore, and it's camera-in and control-out, how can you override the speed limit and make it move faster? The only way I can think is to override the speed limit the car sees and insert that data BEFORE it hits the NN, so the NN thinks the speed limit is 50 instead of 45, and outputs the controls accordingly.

 

[KArnold]

V12.3 is acing his formerly problematic scenarios. U

LOL - more like a B+ in my book but up from a C-. Very far from acing the drives.

 

[KLam]

I think Tesla is trying to avoid potential recalls of FSD. Auto Speed Offset seldom exceed the Speed Limit. Stops on Stop signs always align with the sign post.
Several California cities are installing Speed Cameras and automatically issue speeding tickets for speeding (+5mph?).

 

[Dewg]

Also you can press the accelerator and up the speed past the Max and it will hold a lot like using the dial.

I'm really nervous about doing that - because while on ADAS functions, like FSD Beta, the accelerator is used for two things - speeding up, and overriding decision making functions. It's the overriding decisions that bothers me. If you press the accelerator and the NN thought it needed to make an unsafe move, you just gave it the go ahead to make that move.

 

[Dewg]

Several California cities are installing Speed Cameras and automatically issue speeding tickets for speeding (+5mph?).

I'm curious about this, as I've understood the opposite. Red light and speed cameras were common many years ago, but have been removed due to constitutional challenges - specifically the right to face your accuser. Can't haul a camera into court.

 

[KLam]

Also you can press the accelerator and up the speed past the Max and it will hold a lot like using the dial.

I wonder if the speed will hold even on curves (like mountain highways) where 12.3 will try to modulate. On local streets I know it will reset on stops.