FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[APotatoGod]

Nah, I don’t care what we call it. It’s just shorthand. UPL. ULT. CULT. Whatever.

Un-Protected Left.
Unprotected Left Turn.
Chuck's Unprotected Left Turn.
When Has A Tesla Ever Veered Extra Right.

 

[EVNow]

You must not be making many ULT's into divided highways.

No, we don’t have many of those like you do in FL.

BTW, we are planning to move to FL this summer - so I can make a long term comparison between two geos.

 

[enemji]

I think almost all of us have had this experience. So, you are the outlier here claiming perfect drives for weeks.

It is not a “lane keeping” issue in the sense of Ford blue etc. This is where intentionally FSD is driving to one side of the lane (for whatever reason) and sometimes going over the edge. For eg., yesterday FSD was driving almost on the right line of the two lane road because there was a F150 driving on the left lane. In general I’d only go that far away if it’s a huge truck, not F150. So, FSD needs more specific training to learn this offset rule like humans do.

Keeping the lanes is the highlight of Tesla AP/FSD. I am shocked to read someone has issues with it. Are we sure they are not driving a Mercedes? Seriously

 

[stopcrazypp]

Yes I saw that reddit post, but I don’t consider it as a reliable source
Unless there is some link behind the paywall.

I was able to click through to the link that describes the different levels at the direct source:
Automated Vehicle Crash Rate Comparison Using Naturalistic Data – Virginia Tech Transportation Institute

 

[tmoz]

There, there. Don't let their affect affect you.

I think you meant " their effect affect"

 

[Todd Burch]

If every other of those disengagements would have lead to an accident (if car was driving autonomously), the current rate would be one accident every 40 miles. If driver normally is involved in an accident every 400 000 miles, that distance needs to be 10 000 times higher.

So if disengagement doubles every year it would reach 400 000 in approximately 13 years. Seems plausible. If the actual accident rate now autonomously would be 1 in 100 miles, then we would reach parity already in 12 years!

Not counting driving within parking lots, I would say more than 90% of my disengagements have NOT been to prevent behavior that would cause an accident. A vast majority of them are because it's signaling to go into a lane I don't want it to, because it's going too fast, because it feels like it's changing lanes too late for a turn, or because it's not going around a slower car and it cancelled a manually-initiated lane change halfway through.

For me, the disengagement rate to avoid an accident is more like once every several hundred miles on v12.3.6.

 

[Todd Burch]

My job as a driver is to ensure my safety, not worry about impatient drivers running over to get a quickie with their girlfriend

Your job should also be to not get in other people's way where reasonable without compromising safety. I'm not talking about pulling over for people going 100 mph down a surface street. I'm talking about taking excessively long pauses at stop signs, driving 5-10 mph below the speed limit, etc...things which are relatively common on v12.3.

That is something referred to as "courtesy". But there's not much of that going around nowadays.

 

[Todd Burch]

I think almost all of us have had this experience. So, you are the outlier here claiming perfect drives for weeks.

It is not a “lane keeping” issue in the sense of Ford blue etc. This is where intentionally FSD is driving to one side of the lane (for whatever reason) and sometimes going over the edge. For eg., yesterday FSD was driving almost on the right line of the two lane road because there was a F150 driving on the left lane. In general I’d only go that far away if it’s a huge truck, not F150. So, FSD needs more specific training to learn this offset rule like humans do.

As long as the shoulder is paved, what does it matter? I drive on rural 2-lane roads with high speed limits (45-50 mph) often. Whenever a car is coming from the other direction, I always slide over if there is paved shoulder and there aren't any potholes to avoid. Not a dramatic amount, but going onto or slightly over the line is no big deal to reduce the chance of a head-on collision. An F-150 slamming into you at a 100mph closure rate is a less-than-pleasant experience.

 

[enemji]

Your job should also be to not get in other people's way where reasonable without compromising safety.

Are you joking? Driving recklessly would fall into this category, not driving within regulations. That being said, I have not experienced a road rage event yet. You Probably need to move to a better place.

 

[kpanda17]

Whole east coast drives with FSD 12.3.6, doing amazing. Of the 1,000 miles my estimate is 5 edge cases. Crazy great.
This week will be exciting with spring release with FSD 12.4.

 

[kpanda17]

Btw I love the courtesy moves by 12.3.6 such as, letting someone go first, they have the right of way or maybe not, we’re stopped in traffic and someone wants to pull in from off of the road. FSD let them in.

Also, for a pedestrian who is walking weird, FSD waits and watches. FSD goes after the pedestrian is out of the way.

Lastly, hill top with two way stop signs, it watches the crest top for an on coming vehicle, proceeds with caution and then goes slowly, then stops and lets them through.

All evidence of AI @ the wheel.

 

[aronth5]

Not counting driving within parking lots, I would say more than 90% of my disengagements have NOT been to prevent behavior that would cause an accident. A vast majority of them are because it's signaling to go into a lane I don't want it to, because it's going too fast, because it feels like it's changing lanes too late for a turn, or because it's not going around a slower car and it cancelled a manually-initiated lane change halfway through.

For me, the disengagement rate to avoid an accident is more like once every several hundred miles on v12.3.6.

For me it's once every several thousand miles now. I'm a bit north and west of Boston so I avoid a lot of the more difficult driving closer to the city.
I know for many who post here they would disagree with the following statement but this is what I tell people now when they ask me about FSD.

"First, FSD is not perfect but I'm now driving an autonomous car that still needs to be supervised at all times. On many drives I don't have to intervene at all. On other drives where FSD needs assistance I take over but that is the now the exception." People understand this explanation even with the use of "autonomous" which I get is a stretch. I then usually get a lot of good questions.

 

[willow_hiller]

Btw I love the courtesy moves by 12.3.6

I've gotten so many "Thank you" waves from pedestrians and other drivers on FSD. I always chuckle to myself that they're thanking a machine for driving courteously.

 

[JHCCAZ]

There, there. Don't let their affect affect you.

I think you meant " their effect affect"

No I think he had it right.
Affect as a noun (pronounced AF-fect). A purposeful and somewhat over-expressed response or demeanor, put on for effect.

Like an over-the-top actor delivering a line or a comedian playing for the laugh.

Or on the internet, an emoji to communicate the tone - the affect.

It can be a good or a bad thing, but sometimes annoying. Sometimes when a person is prone to a put-on accent or demeanor, people will say that's an affectation.

I thought @APotatoGod used it purposefully and cleverly there. Good but uncommon word, and I know that the clever joke is diminished by having tto explain it.

 

[FSDtester#1]

No, we don’t have many of those like you do in FL.

BTW, we are planning to move to FL this summer - so I can make a long term comparison between two geos.

Brother!!! When you make it to Florida let everyone know.
We will set a meet up with some of your favorite and not so favorite posters here.
Fsd will perform better after your move. I personally guarantee it.
If I am wrong I will go back through this entire thread and give Alan thumbs-up to all his posts.

Safe travels and welcome!

 

[FSDtester#1]

No I think he had it right.
Affect as a noun (pronounced AF-fect). A purposeful and somewhat over-expressed response or demeanor, put on for effect.

Like an over-the-top actor delivering a line or a comedian playing for the laugh.

Or on the internet, an emoji to communicate the tone - the affect.

It can be a good or a bad thing, but sometimes annoying. Sometimes when a person is prone to a put-on accent or demeanor, people will say that's an affectation.

I thought @APotatoGod used it purposefully and cleverly there. Good but uncommon word, and I know that the clever joke is diminished by having tto explain it.

Be careful with posts like this that some people find subjective...
It could awaken the beast, with 10 pages of the definition of the word "is" !!!

 

[JHCCAZ]

Be careful with posts like this that some people find subjective...
It could awaken the beast, with 10 pages of the definition of the word "is" !!!

Thanks you're right. I was just defending a fellow forum member, while trying to avoid offending anyone else.

Anyway I hope you aren't going to send me a bill for this piece of advice, like you threatened to someone else recently

 

[gottagofast]

V12.3.6 almost completely eliminated the FSD Wiggle for me.

Mine still does it, I thought they made like that on purpose to give cars in the other lane time to respond to your lane change

 

[sleepydoc]

Are you joking? Driving recklessly would fall into this category, not driving within regulations. That being said, I have not experienced a road rage event yet. You Probably need to move to a better place.

Are you one of those people who stops with their cart right in the middle of the aisle at the grocery store, completely blocking the lane while you decide whether you want Cheerios or Golden Grams for breakfast?

 

[sleepydoc]

Seems likely, but as I said, just no incentive.

Obviously going to take a year or so before they're ready for that and they'll need the valuable FSD miles for their graphs well before that. Best possible function is not the priority!!!

Based on how long it took them to merge the city and highway stacks before I suspect you are correct.