FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[AndrewZ]

How do I get rid of the pink eye in my camera

Antibiotic lens cleaner

 

[rlsd]

How do I get rid of the pink eye in my camera

You mean your car has HW4?

 

[swedge]

How do I get rid of the pink eye in my camera

If it looks anything like this, you should probably just step away from the vehicle. If you still can. ;-)

This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been human error.

Thank you for explaining, Hal.

 

[gottagofast]

You mean your car has HW4?

I don’t think so

 

[stopcrazypp]

Agreed. It would make sense for Mercedes, Waymo, Tesla, and the other players in automated driving to contribute to the UN guidelines but historically the US has done its own thing. I would think Elon would be even less likely to participate, but from a business perspective, it would be much better for Tesla to be at the table and have a say in how they were written. (Which means there’s about a zero chance Elon contributed)

One also needs to consider what countries the document’s authors are from. If they were a lot of Germans on the committee it would be expected to see a big Mercedes influence.)

The problem is if they will listen or if they will brush Tesla's suggestions off as "irrelevant" or "misguided". I still remember CharIN telling Tesla off when Tesla wanted to standardize NACS. They only begrudgingly accepted when Tesla forced their hand by partnering with Ford and the dominoes fell in terms of adoption.

 

[stopcrazypp]

You're still conflating "at least" with "within." I can't explain it any clearer so I'll have accept that you can't and/or don't understand the difference.

Thanks for citing section 6 - I hadn't that far; but sections 5 and 6 have some significant relevant language. The text of section 6.1.2 neither says nor implies anything about sleeping. Simply that the driver must be buckled in the driver's seat. Ironically, you missed the parts that would apply. Even though you bolded "is available" in your citation of 6.1.3. Section 6.1.1 also has similar language:

"The driver availability recognition system shall detect if the driver is present in a driving position, if the safety belt of the driver is fastened and if the driver is available to take over the driving task."

It doesn't specifically address sleeping but one can make a reasonable argument that a sleeping occupant is not available so there is definitely an implication.

Later on (6.1.3.1) it addresses "criteria for deeming driver availability:"

"The driver shall be deemed to be unavailable unless at least two availability criteria (e.g. input to driver-exclusive vehicle control, eye blinking, eye closure, conscious head or body movement) have individually determined that the driver is available in the last 30 seconds."

Oddly, it would appear the reading a book or having sunglasses could well fail the availability criteria here since the person's eyes would be obscured. Essentially their criteria would seem to require everything that FSD has bee looking at now and would preclude the the driver doing other activities without interrupting them on a regular basis to 'satisfy the nag,' which kind of defeats the purpose of a level 3 system.

5.1.8 is also noteworthy in that it specifically requires prevention of misuse:

"The manufacturer shall take measures to guard against reasonably foreseeable misuse by the driver and tampering of the system."

As I said before, the UN document is far more prescriptive and detailed than the SAE document. From my reading I think the UN document actually goes a bit too far but it remains to be seen if and how the US and EU adopt the UN guidelines, the SAE guidelines or some other criteria.

It's already law in EU as of 2021:

UN Regulation No 157 – Uniform provisions concerning the approval of vehicles with regards to Automated Lane Keeping Systems [2021/389] - Publications Office of the EU

op.europa.eu

Seems like as soon as the spec is hot off the press in the UN, it gets almost immediately adopted into law by the EU. Makes sense since it's basically a UN/ECE spec (meaning Economic Commission for Europe of the United Nations)

AFAIK, there is no similar adoption by the US. Heck, we haven't even adopted the L2 spec (UNECE 79). That's why AP functionality is different in Europe than the US.

Regulation No 79 of the Economic Commission for Europe of the United Nations (UN/ECE) — Uniform provisions concerning the approval of vehicles with regard to steering equipment [2018/1947] - Publications Office of the EU

op.europa.eu

As it relates back to the thread, makes you wonder if FSDS will ever hit Europe, as I imagine it violates a ton of rules.

 

[gsmith123]

FSD waiting has gotten boring since Teslascope stopped leaking juicy but vague tidbits. Has the latest v12 release gone to employees yet? How are we supposed to know?

 

[zoomer0056]

FSD waiting has gotten boring since Teslascope stopped leaking juicy but vague tidbits. Has the latest v12 release gone to employees yet? How are we supposed to know?

This is how ChatGPT answers your question:

 

[FSDtester#1]

FSD waiting has gotten boring since Teslascope stopped leaking juicy but vague tidbits. Has the latest v12 release gone to employees yet? How are we supposed to know?

No doubt, ever since Tesla slapped them in the face for the leaks, Elon on X is the only source.

 

[sleepydoc]

It's already law in EU as of 2021:

UN Regulation No 157 – Uniform provisions concerning the approval of vehicles with regards to Automated Lane Keeping Systems [2021/389] - Publications Office of the EU

op.europa.eu

Seems like as soon as the spec is hot off the press in the UN, it gets almost immediately adopted into law by the EU. Makes sense since it's basically a UN/ECE spec (meaning Economic Commission for Europe of the United Nations)

AFAIK, there is no similar adoption by the US. Heck, we haven't even adopted the L2 spec (UNECE 79). That's why AP functionality is different in Europe than the US.

Regulation No 79 of the Economic Commission for Europe of the United Nations (UN/ECE) — Uniform provisions concerning the approval of vehicles with regard to steering equipment [2018/1947] - Publications Office of the EU

op.europa.eu

As it relates back to the thread, makes you wonder if FSDS will ever hit Europe, as I imagine it violates a ton of rules.

UNECE 79 would appear not to apply to FSD as it specifically excludes 'category E' systems. It would seem that AP would fall under this as well:
"a function which is initiated/activated by the driver and which can continuously determine the possibility of a manoeuvre (e.g. lane change) and complete these manoeuvres for extended periods without further driver command/confirmation."

The problem in the U.S. is that driving laws are created and administered by the states so the federal government cannot adopt something like UNECE 79 or 157. In some ways that may be good because 157 appears to be too restrictive. On the other hand it leaves companies like Tesla having to deal with 50 different jurisdictions.

 

[sleepydoc]

No doubt, ever since Tesla slapped them in the face for the leaks, Elon on X is the only source.

He's not a source - he's just some random sycophant spouting gobbledygook

 

[gsmith123]

He's not a source - he's just some random sycophant spouting gobbledygook

Definitely not a primary source, I got the sense that he had a number of contacts inside Tesla and generally shared filtered info from them.

Hard to gauge reliability, especially since the actual sources likely had incomplete information at many times. But it was credible enough to keep me entertained and that's really what everyone should be focused on

 

[sleepydoc]

I’ve tracked my driving over the last 2 weeks. I’ve driven a total of 631 miles using FSD with a total of 8 disengagements. The disengagements/interventions were:

• Flashing red light x2
• Missed highway Exit x4
• Entered a turn lane rather than going straight x2

* Note that I am not counting tapping the accelerator to get the car up to the desired speed, nor am I counting lane changes that were made for personal preference (non-safety) reasons.

Counting all of these I get about 79 miles per disengagement. 4 of the disengagements were due to difficulties with highway exits, nominally an issue with V11, not V12. I don’t have a good breakdown between highway and city driving or any way to tell when the car switches between V11 and V12 so I can’t give an accurate failure rate for V12.

Flashing red lights have long been an issue. I’m not sure why they continue to be but the clearly still are. (With the 2nd intervention for flashing red lights there was heavy traffic and I did not wait to see how long the car would fumble as I didn’t want to inconvenience my fellow motorists.)

 

[SSDTester#1]

Ramphex said:
"Link me to a 12.3.6 video where you can drive nag-free, hands-free for the duration of how long that person has driven in Tesla’s 5 year old video, with no interventions or any sorts of other goofy *sugar*."

@Ramphex- Here is another video in response to your challenge. Back to back drives with zero interventions and hands free. No "goofy sugar". Same as Tesla's 5 year old video. These were not complex drives but neither was Tesla's. Time to finally retire "junk" when referring to FSD. Was it perfect, of course not. But did it match Tesla's drive that you asked for? Yup.

Do you have 12.4.1? Do I have 12.4.1? You want me to stop calling it junk based on a software release neither one of us have? C’mon man you’re better than this.

Just checking in to see how you’re enjoying your hands free driving experience with 12.4.1

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[FSDtester#1]

Just checking in to see how you’re enjoying your hands free driving experience with 12.4.1

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Tonight is the night you get it, you have been 1st in this thread for multiple releases. Take a drive to cvs for your hemorrhoid cream and report back asap!

 

[gottagofast]

Regular people should start getting 4.2 mondayish

 

[FSDtester#1]

Regular people should start getting 4.2 mondayish

Your not regular though right?

 

[FSDtester#1]

Just checking in to see how you’re enjoying your hands free driving experience with 12.4.1

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Btw, we just need one more member to change their name to VDTester#1
and the thread should be completed with experts in all areas.

 

[rlsd]

Btw, we just need one more member to change their name to VDTester#1
and the thread should be completed with experts in all areas.

You forgot STDTester#1

 

[gottagofast]

Btw, we just need one more member to change their name to VDTester#1
and the thread should be completed with experts in all areas.

Should that be me