FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[Pdubs]

Jeez I have gone WholeMars stupidly INSANE. Original Beta tester and live in the inner city. Have never had more than about 2 miles of urban FSD driving without a disengagement.

Yesterday had a couple of long great drives BUT today just blows it out of the water. I went several miles (all urban) on 2 trips without a single disengagement (and almost no Elon cursing which is a RECORD). So many things it did right and human like. Here is just one example.

In left lane when coming to Red light and couldn't get over before light changed and was blocked for Work. Was "stuck" and almost disengaged to get over since I couldn't see FSD making it. But stopped myself and said unless dangerous no matter how embarrassing I'm going to let it play. Light changed and FSD turned on signal. After a couple of cars one slowed (NOT stopped) JUST enough for a human to know to go quickly. I was going to let it play and sit there and all of a sudden FSD gunned it and took the small gap. WOW, just wow. Got home and NOT a single disengagement on 2 drives of over 15 inner city miles.

Color me Omar's yes man.

View attachment 1029663View attachment 1029662

Honestly feel that with this build, I didn't waste my money. it's so good.

 

[diplomat33]

Hard not to be, it does it so slowly. I’ve noticed jerking of the wheel when it is uncertain though.

I believe this on streets where it is traveling below 30mph.

As before, slowing from 50mph-60mph on a nice sleepy suburban residential arterial is where the issues start to arise. (With less smoothness.)

Yes, all my roads were 30 mph. I have not tested V12 on faster roads yet. Will do that tomorrow.

You should try to do the turn with someone right behind you. Assuming a turn onto a quiet road, if honking does not occur, they have the patience of a saint.

It can take literally 10 seconds to decide to make a turn when no traffic is present (I checked the tape). And that doesn’t include the SLOW roll up to the line. Did you notice it stopping a few feet back from the stop line (if present)?

There is no stop line exiting my residential subdivision, but it stopped about 1.5 car lengths from the edge of the road. Creeped to about half a car length. Then creeped up to the edge of the road. There was a car coming from the right so it let it pass. There was a car coming from the left but pretty far. FSD had time to make the turn which did. Yes, Imagine that it would have annoyed drivers behind me. It was definitely not human like. But it was smoother than V11.

 

[diplomat33]

I should clarify that there is a big sign on the left side that occludes the view to the left if you stop short. That might explain the double creep forward. But a human would just go right up to the edge of the road where there is good visibility in both directions.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

even when I look at the bar, I can't see it applying brakes, just Regen.

Just make sure you have “apply brakes when regen is limited” turned ON, otherwise when FSD is engaged the bar won’t show the brake application. (Just remember this also hides your regen dots, and you’ll see friction brake use even on good FSD stops at high SOC (above 55-60%) in cool conditions.)

I believe that v12 will have less harsh braking than v11. Need more experience. But the pre-emphasis described is real and annoying. I have also seen
brake use in scenarios where it did not need it, due solely to the pre-emphasis. Meaning: it would apply brakes and max regen early in the stop, then take forever in the second half of the stop to coast slowly to a stop, leaving plenty of regen on the table.

The test case for this would be multiple stops for stopped traffic and changing traffic lights, without a lead car as a pilot, starting at 50mph-55mph. Downhill scenarios are more challenging. (Basically same test case as v11.) Sometimes it is fine.

 

[Magnetic]

2018 Model 3, Dual Motor, LR, 180K miles

TL/DR - V12.3 It was a Major Fail on Standard Morning Run Route

Just installed v12.3 here in Northeast Pennsylvania. Did the standard morning run this evening, lite traffic. Horrible!!!! Couldn’t make the very simple right turn at T intersection at end of block. Yes it did it, if you wait through all the fits and starts, Clear field of view, no traffic, thankfully nobody was around to see it. The left onto the main secondary road was a little better, but two cars were passing, one from the left and then one from the right, so I don’t know if it would have had conniptions at this T intersection too. It pulled out after car from right passed and immediately speed up.

Speed is ridiculous, the posted speed is 35, I have it set for 10% over, couldn’t even do 35 on clear road, well marked, no excuse, no other release had this problem. Posted speed increased to 45, car shows 45 as posted, set speed is 50, car does 36 mph and traffic starts loading up behind me. First left turn off secondary road which is an angled left and a very easy turn, you hardly need to turn the wheel. It takes it way too slow, cars travel the secondary road at 55 – 60 mph, this is farm country, you can’t slow down like this. After turn off secondary road there’s an immediate left, car goes slight right, nearly comes to a stop before another round of conniptions attempting the turn. No obstructions in any direction, well marked clear fields of view for all cameras, it’s freaking farm fields all around. I had to pull over and see what was going on. It was set at assertive, I moved it to average. The new speed feature was turned off. No idea what is wrong with it. It would not do the speed limit, even though the screen shows it. Scrolling the speed wheel did nothing regardless of how high you increased the speed. This has never happen in the 5 years of playing with FSD. Next T intersection more of the same, stops to short of intersection, try’s to inch up, but is too far back and too far over to right and taking too long. Had to disengage again.

The trouble intersection with the Stop here on Red with the Yellow lights for the railroad track, which weren’t on, it couldn’t figure it out, so it just stopped. When I pressed the accelerator it continued across tracks crawling up to and into the intersection 30 yards away, but nearly came to a stop in the intersection so I had to hit the accelerator again to clear the intersection. You just can’t do this with all the trucks, buses and folks racing to work.

When I reached the destination I turned on the speed control, which makes it more natural, and headed back home. Yikes, that’s even worse, went from 40 to 30 on a 45mph posted road. Again cars travel 55-60mph on these roads. I quick turn it off, which you can do while driving, at least they got that right and I did speed it up to an incredible 41 mph, whew she’s a rocket, but still couldn’t reach posted speed of 45.

Bottom line, maybe it has to soak in over night, if it doesn’t change then I have a freaking lemon that I can’t use and will have to wait for the next update.

Sorry I am not experiencing any of this soooooo smooth, soooo human like, mind blowing, this is the real deal, etc etc (yeah if your an 80 year old driver). If this isn’t fixed really soon I need to get V11 back. It’s totally unusable I can’t imagine trying to use this during the day with the traffic, I’ll be shot or run off the road.

Of all the releases, this is by far the worst. I was really hoping and even notified a friend I had it and wanted him to take it for a ride with me, based on all the social postings. NOT! That absolutely isn’t happening! Now we know why they didn’t want to release it out here. Horrible! Wishing for better days tomorrow when I have to make the morning run with traffic and school buses and trucks on this road. Can’t wait!

I am astounded how bad it is, never have I experienced anything like this in all the updates over the past 5 years. Unbelievable. I’m thrilled for all those who are having great experiences, come out here and see what happens. Very disappointing. Right now V11 was light years ahead of the V12.3. Major Fail.

 

[zoomer0056]

Right now V11 was light years ahead of the V12.3.

I don't have or want FSD, just living vicariously thru this thread. Based on this thread, your experience seems to be an outlier. I've read such gushing approval of V12.3 and such terrible dissatisfaction with V11.

 

[TK211X]

2018 Model 3, Dual Motor, LR, 180K miles

TL/DR - V12.3 It was a Major Fail on Standard Morning Run Route

Just installed v12.3 here in Northeast Pennsylvania. Did the standard morning run this evening, lite traffic. Horrible!!!! Couldn’t make the very simple right turn at T intersection at end of block. Yes it did it, if you wait through all the fits and starts, Clear field of view, no traffic, thankfully nobody was around to see it. The left onto the main secondary road was a little better, but two cars were passing, one from the left and then one from the right, so I don’t know if it would have had conniptions at this T intersection too. It pulled out after car from right passed and immediately speed up.

Speed is ridiculous, the posted speed is 35, I have it set for 10% over, couldn’t even do 35 on clear road, well marked, no excuse, no other release had this problem. Posted speed increased to 45, car shows 45 as posted, set speed is 50, car does 36 mph and traffic starts loading up behind me. First left turn off secondary road which is an angled left and a very easy turn, you hardly need to turn the wheel. It takes it way too slow, cars travel the secondary road at 55 – 60 mph, this is farm country, you can’t slow down like this. After turn off secondary road there’s an immediate left, car goes slight right, nearly comes to a stop before another round of conniptions attempting the turn. No obstructions in any direction, well marked clear fields of view for all cameras, it’s freaking farm fields all around. I had to pull over and see what was going on. It was set at assertive, I moved it to average. The new speed feature was turned off. No idea what is wrong with it. It would not do the speed limit, even though the screen shows it. Scrolling the speed wheel did nothing regardless of how high you increased the speed. This has never happen in the 5 years of playing with FSD. Next T intersection more of the same, stops to short of intersection, try’s to inch up, but is too far back and too far over to right and taking too long. Had to disengage again.

The trouble intersection with the Stop here on Red with the Yellow lights for the railroad track, which weren’t on, it couldn’t figure it out, so it just stopped. When I pressed the accelerator it continued across tracks crawling up to and into the intersection 30 yards away, but nearly came to a stop in the intersection so I had to hit the accelerator again to clear the intersection. You just can’t do this with all the trucks, buses and folks racing to work.

When I reached the destination I turned on the speed control, which makes it more natural, and headed back home. Yikes, that’s even worse, went from 40 to 30 on a 45mph posted road. Again cars travel 55-60mph on these roads. I quick turn it off, which you can do while driving, at least they got that right and I did speed it up to an incredible 41 mph, whew she’s a rocket, but still couldn’t reach posted speed of 45.

Bottom line, maybe it has to soak in over night, if it doesn’t change then I have a freaking lemon that I can’t use and will have to wait for the next update.

Sorry I am not experiencing any of this soooooo smooth, soooo human like, mind blowing, this is the real deal, etc etc (yeah if your an 80 year old driver). If this isn’t fixed really soon I need to get V11 back. It’s totally unusable I can’t imagine trying to use this during the day with the traffic, I’ll be shot or run off the road.

Of all the releases, this is by far the worst. I was really hoping and even notified a friend I had it and wanted him to take it for a ride with me, based on all the social postings. NOT! That absolutely isn’t happening! Now we know why they didn’t want to release it out here. Horrible! Wishing for better days tomorrow when I have to make the morning run with traffic and school buses and trucks on this road. Can’t wait!

I am astounded how bad it is, never have I experienced anything like this in all the updates over the past 5 years. Unbelievable. I’m thrilled for all those who are having great experiences, come out here and see what happens. Very disappointing. Right now V11 was light years ahead of the V12.3. Major Fail.

Have you tried cleaning the glass and cameras

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It would not do the speed limit, even though the screen shows it. Scrolling the speed wheel did nothing regardless of how high you increased the speed. This has never happen in the 5 years of playing with FSD.

When I reached the destination I turned on the speed control, which makes it more natural, and headed back home.

This is all expected. The new FSD mantra is “always be accelerating.” As has been said repeatedly, speed control is completely broken (both new and old modes). Just use the accelerator to control your speed. You can’t just do it once, you have to keep at it.

Couldn’t make the very simple right turn at T intersection at end of block. Yes it did it, if you wait through all the fits and starts, Clear field of view, no traffic, thankfully nobody was around to see it

Yep, this is the other well known issue. Stopping and going after stopping is broken.

Unbelievable. I’m thrilled for all those who are having great experiences, come out here and see what happens. Very disappointing. Right now V11 was light years ahead of the V12.3. Major Fail.

Your experience seems completely consistent with mine (which has been overall good).

I think the things to focus on are how it does on more well marked straight roads compared to prior versions. You have to just set aside the shortcomings and judge ignoring those limitations.

Take over for stops signs and anything other than plain vanilla traffic-light controlled intersections, and use the accelerator for the straights. Then evaluate the performance there.

Probably needs more rural training too, though I am fairly doubtful about how well it will ever do on lightly marked roads.

 

[lzolman]

This is not giving me the warm fuzzies w/r/t what to expect in Boston.

 

[Magnetic]

This is all expected. The new FSD mantra is “always be accelerating.” As has been said repeatedly, speed control is completely broken (both new and old modes). Just use the accelerator to control your speed. You can’t just do it once, you have to keep at it.



Yep, this is the other well known issue. Stopping and going after stopping is broken.



Your experience seems completely consistent with mine (which has been overall good).

I think the things to focus on are how it does on more well marked roads compared to prior versions. You have to just set aside the shortcomings and judge that.

Take over for stops signs and anything other than plain vanilla traffic-light controlled intersections, and use the accelerator for the straights. Then evaluate the performance there.

Probably needs more rural training too, though I am fairly doubtful about how well it will ever do on lightly marked roads.

Thanks for acknowledging it's not just me and maybe the rural roads. You're right, tomorrow is another day. I was tainted from reading all the wonderful reports on it and expecting same. Thus I was stunned on how bad it was compared to 11 which we've been driving forever, seems like, and knew all it's little nuances. Just have to be retrained on this and manually intervene until it catches up. I must say the speed is a shocker though. Maybe it's a guardrail for this first roll out.​

 

[KLam]

2018 Model 3, Dual Motor, LR, 180K miles

TL/DR - V12.3 It was a Major Fail on Standard Morning Run Route

Just installed v12.3 here in Northeast Pennsylvania. Did the standard morning run this evening, lite traffic. Horrible!!!! Couldn’t make the very simple right turn at T intersection at end of block. Yes it did it, if you wait through all the fits and starts, Clear field of view, no traffic, thankfully nobody was around to see it. The left onto the main secondary road was a little better, but two cars were passing, one from the left and then one from the right, so I don’t know if it would have had conniptions at this T intersection too. It pulled out after car from right passed and immediately speed up.

Speed is ridiculous, the posted speed is 35, I have it set for 10% over, couldn’t even do 35 on clear road, well marked, no excuse, no other release had this problem. Posted speed increased to 45, car shows 45 as posted, set speed is 50, car does 36 mph and traffic starts loading up behind me. First left turn off secondary road which is an angled left and a very easy turn, you hardly need to turn the wheel. It takes it way too slow, cars travel the secondary road at 55 – 60 mph, this is farm country, you can’t slow down like this. After turn off secondary road there’s an immediate left, car goes slight right, nearly comes to a stop before another round of conniptions attempting the turn. No obstructions in any direction, well marked clear fields of view for all cameras, it’s freaking farm fields all around. I had to pull over and see what was going on. It was set at assertive, I moved it to average. The new speed feature was turned off. No idea what is wrong with it. It would not do the speed limit, even though the screen shows it. Scrolling the speed wheel did nothing regardless of how high you increased the speed. This has never happen in the 5 years of playing with FSD. Next T intersection more of the same, stops to short of intersection, try’s to inch up, but is too far back and too far over to right and taking too long. Had to disengage again.

The trouble intersection with the Stop here on Red with the Yellow lights for the railroad track, which weren’t on, it couldn’t figure it out, so it just stopped. When I pressed the accelerator it continued across tracks crawling up to and into the intersection 30 yards away, but nearly came to a stop in the intersection so I had to hit the accelerator again to clear the intersection. You just can’t do this with all the trucks, buses and folks racing to work.

When I reached the destination I turned on the speed control, which makes it more natural, and headed back home. Yikes, that’s even worse, went from 40 to 30 on a 45mph posted road. Again cars travel 55-60mph on these roads. I quick turn it off, which you can do while driving, at least they got that right and I did speed it up to an incredible 41 mph, whew she’s a rocket, but still couldn’t reach posted speed of 45.

Bottom line, maybe it has to soak in over night, if it doesn’t change then I have a freaking lemon that I can’t use and will have to wait for the next update.

Sorry I am not experiencing any of this soooooo smooth, soooo human like, mind blowing, this is the real deal, etc etc (yeah if your an 80 year old driver). If this isn’t fixed really soon I need to get V11 back. It’s totally unusable I can’t imagine trying to use this during the day with the traffic, I’ll be shot or run off the road.

Of all the releases, this is by far the worst. I was really hoping and even notified a friend I had it and wanted him to take it for a ride with me, based on all the social postings. NOT! That absolutely isn’t happening! Now we know why they didn’t want to release it out here. Horrible! Wishing for better days tomorrow when I have to make the morning run with traffic and school buses and trucks on this road. Can’t wait!

I am astounded how bad it is, never have I experienced anything like this in all the updates over the past 5 years. Unbelievable. I’m thrilled for all those who are having great experiences, come out here and see what happens. Very disappointing. Right now V11 was light years ahead of the V12.3. Major Fail.

I think Tesla is on purpose setting the speed on the low side so that it feels more save and under control. That has proven to get more wife's approval.
As I have mentioned on my prior post that you can adjust the slow speed up by using the accelerator! The initial harder down shift in speed on approach to stops can also be adjusted by just slightly pressing the accelerator. The stop distance from the stop line can also be adjusted by the accelerator press. Drive some more and experiment with your feel to get the necessary result to your liking. Doing it this way you don't have to disengage.

 

[TK211X]

Anticipating another drop in about 4 hours. Anyone else going to grab popcorn and pray?

 

[aronth5]

This is not giving me the warm fuzzies w/r/t what to expect in Boston.

I haven't done Boston yet but that happens Thursday when I go in town. That will be a good test. Otherwise I'm very happy with how many problems V12 has fixed on my standard metro Boston routes where I can compare V11 and V12.

 

[j0shm1lls]

Anticipating another drop in about 4 hours. Anyone else going to grab popcorn and pray?

Not looking forward to being disappointed again lol

 

[D Good]

Anticipating another drop in about 4 hours. Anyone else going to grab popcorn and pray?

Yup.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I think Tesla is on purpose setting the speed on the low side so that it feels more save and under control.

I’d be fine with this if it allowed use of the original method of speed control. But the old mode no longer exists.

But seems it is a limitation of the NNs and they CAN’T have a system that just ramps up to the set speed reliably, as it did before, when it has to take into account many other factors as input to the neural network. But right now the NN seems to completely ignore any inputs from driver requested speed above a certain level when using the old mode (which is now a new mode because it is not the same as the old mode).

That being said it seems to be consistently below the limit (perhaps a safety guardrail as you say), so surely they can fix that with training.

But it may be that this borking is going to be with us for the long term. We’ll see if they can figure it out. It could be a more difficult problem than autowipers!

It seems tricky to train a neural network on what speed it should travel. And apparently they can’t just tell it the speed (otherwise the old mode would work). So the days of the car traveling at the requested speed may be behind us.

 

[sleepydoc]

It's either v12.3 or that new Ketamine script.

Hey! I’ve made it very clear it has crippling limitations in certain scenarios. But when there are significant improvements, I can’t just deny it. And there are significant improvements!

Yes. There are many people for whom ketamine has been a Godsend!

 

[lzolman]

I haven't done Boston yet but that happens Thursday when I go in town. That will be a good test. Otherwise I'm very happy with how many problems V12 has fixed on my standard metro Boston routes where I can compare V11 and V12.

I actually just meant the Boston area in general, I'm on the North Shore. I'd have to do a lot of back roads and highway around here before attempting to brave Boston proper. So you're in MA and have an older V12, as supposedly no one in MA has 12.3 yet?

 

[JB47394]

I'd have to do a lot of back roads and highway around here before attempting to brave Boston proper.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that it does better in Boston than it does on back roads and highways given that it was designed for city driving. I find it to be most impressive in tight quarters. It's least impressive when it's out in the open just trying to drive straight and maintain speed.

 

[MYoohMY]

I came here to rave about how v12 just drove me through downtown Denver and around Denver and home with zero interventions. It was smooth and so human like. It is damn close to being as good as a human. It did some mildly odd behaviors but definitely nothing that I would say some humans also wouldn’t do. This was insanely impressive and the biggest leap forward in fsd since I’ve been using it. I was in from the beginning of the safety score stuff.