FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[aronth5]

I knew it was good when my wife noticed it. And she absolutely hates FSD. Wife approval is the holy grail of FSD acceptance.

As of today I now use FSD on City/Streets with my spouse in the car. Granted I haven't done this in Boston or in a couple of other area cities were the road layout is awful but to achieve spouse acceptance anywhere is a major step forward. The fact FSD is sometimes slow may actually have helped get buy in.

The one problem I did have today was on the highway with a steady hard rain for 90 minutes. FSD did great seeing the lines and staying in lanes until the window fogged up too much. FSD disengaged with the wheel of death with a message FSD would wait until the front cameras were clear again. That took a couple of minutes.

One thing I have noted with my 2nd Model Y (2023) is it fogs up way more than my first Model Y. I wonder if Tesla could detect fogging windows and adjust the air flow more quickly. I tried a couple of defrost settings which did help but by then the windshield was quickly fogging up. I also had a couple of messages regarding occluded side cameras. Obviously these are the types of problems that cannot happen with robotaxi. Hardware 5?

 

[TK211X]

*Happiness Noises*

Ok… I’m ready to complain about 12.3.1.

Where is it. It’s the weekend Elon.

 

[FSDtester#1]

As of today I now use FSD on City/Streets with my spouse in the car. Granted I haven't done this in Boston or in a couple of other area cities were the road layout is awful but to achieve spouse acceptance anywhere is a major step forward. The fact FSD is sometimes slow may actually have helped get buy in.

The one problem I did have today was on the highway with a steady hard rain for 90 minutes. FSD did great seeing the lines and staying in lanes until the window fogged up too much. FSD disengaged with the wheel of death with a message FSD would wait until the front cameras were clear again. That took a couple of minutes.

One thing I have noted with my 2nd Model Y (2023) is it fogs up way more than my first Model Y. I wonder if Tesla could detect fogging windows and adjust the air flow more quickly. I tried a couple of defrost settings which did help but by then the windshield was quickly fogging up. I also had a couple of messages regarding occluded side cameras. Obviously these are the types of problems that cannot happen with robotaxi. Hardware 5?

Remember, that's the schit stack on highways etc

 

[Dennisis]

USB ports or dashcam not working? for me the USB ports stops working.

Ports work fine, just the dash cam. I have a new one coming tomorrow just in case.

 

[hobertg]

*Happiness Noises*

Ok… I’m ready to complain about 12.3.1.

Where is it. It’s the weekend Elon.

Installing v12 now but I agree...will cars with 12.3 get 12.3.1 quickly or do they get in line?

 

[kabin]

Doesn't track stop and go lead vehicles very well. It tends to over accelerating toward the lead vehicle to the point of following too close and shortly thereafter drives too slow so the lead vehicle is pulling away. Maybe another manifestation of the old latency issue. In any event, the default one size fits all acceleration profile continues to be excessive.

 

[aronth5]

Remember, that's the schit stack on highways etc

Very true. But I never had fogging stop FSD from working with my first Model Y (HW3).

 

[KLam]

OK! Anymore complaints of not getting 12.3?

 

[TK211X]

OK! Anymore complaints of not getting 12.3?

Mostly moved on to complaining about 12.3.1 with love.

 

[gsmith123]

I found a strange corner case (not a very important one, but made me laugh):

- we're approaching an intersection
- navigation calls for a left turn
- blinker is on (to the left), car is on track for a normal left turn
- I rerouted the navigation so we needed a right turn
- blinker stays on to the left
- but the car successfully completes a right turn (while blinking left!)

I'm not sure what this tells us about the V12 neural nets and system architecture, but it did seem unexpected.

 

[sleepydoc]

I feel so bad for you. How about I fly you to my house. Show you the beaver , and let you drive V12?

Ummmm… this is the wrong site for that!

 

[lzolman]

On my "funky" intersection (looks kinda like a vertically bisected U, or a psi character), V12.3 was approaching from the left part of the U and navigating (supposed to, er, drive) across Rt. 114 over to the other side of the U. At the intersection, that means "go straight". Well, it turned on the left directional as I was waiting at the light. That was giving the wrong impression to the other drivers around me, as I certainly was not turning left onto 114, so I manually turned off the directional.

When the light turned green, V12.3 tentatively headed into the intersection and then turned right onto Rt. 114. Ugh.

The navigation was showing me crossing 114 over to the other side of the U.

Major fail.

I disengaged and turned around, manually driving over to the other side of the U. After a while I turned around and set the controls for home, which takes me back through the U the other way.

Again, I think it stopped short of the road sensor at the light so I had to hit go to get up to where it would trip the sensor. This time I managed not to disengage FSD, and when the lights changed it aced crossing over 114 and following that side of the U up the hill. So that's better than before with V11, when it used to thrash and turn left onto 114.

 

[gsmith123]

I hope they can find a more meaningful way to incorporate the user's desired speed setting because I can see this becoming a real hindrance to the driving experience after some time.

Agreed. Chill / Average / Assertive has pretty minimal impact on auto-speed, from my testing.

For what it's worth, if you just lightly tap the accelerator auto-speed will bump up by about 5 mph. That increased speed will stick for a while - it seems until auto-speed predicts a different speed (i.e. you pass a speed limit sign, traffic speeds change, etc). I find it pretty usable, but obviously it requires input each time, rather than being able to set a permanent offset like you do with V11.

Maybe a new user setting input into the auto-speed AI so you can pick from:
- a few MPH under
- exactly on speed limit (roughly what it does today, I've seen it go anywhere from 5 under to 13 over all on it's own)
- 5 over
- 8 over?

(Might need to actually do all those in percent vs absolute values, for low speed like parking lots)

I guess they could also connect it to the Chill / Average / Assertive setting, although I'd generally like to hang out in Chill mode, but aim for about 5 mph over.

 

[arnolddeleon]

Anyone have their dash cam stop working after the 12.3 update? Mine's been working fine for almost 4 years and still works on my iMac but "not available" in the car...

I've had flakey behavior in the Y, I didn't associate initially with 12.3 but might be correlated. I use high endurance micro-SD cards with a USB adapter. I've tried different cards and adapters. It sometimes is available. I need to look more closely.

 

[sleepydoc]

Huh? https://www.oregon.gov/odot/Forms/DMV/37.pdf

View attachment 1031152

Edit: I see you edited your post:


Both the examples where when travelling at about 35 MPH.


Nope, not at all. I would take the V11 behavior any day.

“Use your turn signal at least 100 feet before the turn or lane change”

100’ is the miminum. Alan is correct - the signaling behavior in V12 is vastly superior to V11. It virtually always signals where I would normally signal in order to be clear and courteous to other drivers.

 

[sleepydoc]

yep, this definitely feels like a cleanup wave. the tsunami is upon us.

Evidently you needed cleaning up!

 

[sleepydoc]

Hi, all --

If you look at the Teslafsdtracker --

Home

FSD Community Tracker

www.teslafsdtracker.com

, you'll see an enormous increase in miles per city critical disengagement, while all other stats are roughly in line. I'm looking for anecdotage on this; does that match your experience? Do you think 12.3 is much safer?

Yours,
RP

Anecdotally I can say I definitely have fewer disengagements. In fact I had my first disengagements this afternoon. For the first one I was driving in the left lane on the highway and the car signaled to move to the right lane. Normally would have been totally appropriate except there was a tow truck on the side of the road (with lights on) helping a motorist so i delayed the lane change until after the tow truck.

The second was when it started to enter an inappropriate turn lane. It was a block before it needed to turn and it was also behind a trailer so I’m not sure if it would have caught itself but there was a car right behind me so I prophylactically took over to prevent any issues.

I found a strange corner case (not a very important one, but made me laugh):

- we're approaching an intersection
- navigation calls for a left turn
- blinker is on (to the left), car is on track for a normal left turn
- I rerouted the navigation so we needed a right turn
- blinker stays on to the left
- but the car successfully completes a right turn (while blinking left!)

I'm not sure what this tells us about the V12 neural nets and system architecture, but it did seem unexpected.

so, yeah… exactly like a human driver!

 

[FSDtester#1]

“Use your turn signal at least 100 feet before the turn or lane change”

100’ is the miminum. Alan is correct - the signaling behavior in V12 is vastly superior to V11. It virtually always signals where I would normally signal in order to be clear and courteous to other drivers.

I finally had a disengagement. My crack dealer decided to step in front of my car instead of coming to the passenger window. It was an uncomfortable slow down.
The crack was fine. The slow down, completely unexceptable.
Come on Tesla, upload some drug deals to the stack.

 

[sleepydoc]

Ok - I’ve been driving with V12 for 3-4 days now and it’s a huge improvement over V11 for me.

• Speed - yeah. We all know the issues.
• So far all of the areas where V11 would chose the wrong lane and get into trouble have been fixed.
• Unprotected rights and right turns with a yield/island on the left are beautiful now.
• The single traffic circle I’ve encountered was textbook perfect. (Sorry @FSDtester#1 - you’ll have to put me on ignore now)
• The signaling is as close to perfect as I can ever expect
• When entering a double turn lane it will frequently seem to get confused, momentarily straddling the line between the lanes before choosing one.
• Lane planning still needs some work. It’s better and I haven’t had any horrible cases but it will frequently choose the wrong turn lane when it needs to make a subsequent turn shortly after the first one.
• The unprotected left leaving my neighborhood is both better and unimproved - if there is approaching traffic V12 will no longer start to creep out like V11 did. This intersection has perfect visibility even when stopping behind the stop sign but it still insists on stopping then creeping forward for no clear reason.
• Parking lots are a big leap forward.

Overall this has been an incredible release for me - the only thing I need to do is goose the accelerator to get the car up to the correct speed. Beyond that it’s very easy and relaxing to drive.

 

[willow_hiller]

A bit of an important discovery tonight for those that think Auto Max drives too slowly: the right scroll wheel still works while on Auto.

Driving past a known sensitive speed trap, and Auto Max chose to go 27 in a 20 MPH. Out of habit, I scrolled down on the right scroll wheel, and after about a half a second delay, it slowed down to 24. Another scroll down, and it's down to 20. Another scroll up, and it's up to 24.

So yeah, you don't need to press the accelerator and hope it keeps up. Scroll up on the right scroll wheel a few times.

I don't know if I'm just the first person to try this, or whether others have done it already and I've missed it.