FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[JohnB007]

Just drove for the first time on V12 (12.3.4) it did ok.
- wipers are finally working
- it accelerates nicely
- it drives more confident
- no more strange stop's in the middle of the road stops so far
- no more phantom braking?

- Still has a hard time with roundabouts. Is it so hard turning the indicator on when you are entering en exiting a roundabout? I know a lot of people have a hard time with it as well but it is such an easy thing.
- it still has issues with getting into the correct lane. If going straight don’t go into the right lane and leave that lane for cars turning right for instance. It doesn’t do that.

Compared to which version?

 

[asterothe]

"would consider autonomous driving to be basically a solved problem.” / Elon Musk, 2016

https://twitter.com/x/status/1778407848583573684

Why this person is not supervising and take over to stop?

 

[JHCCAZ]

I never sit by when stuff like this begins to happen, I disengage immediately and then my #1 priority is to do whatever it takes for the other (wronged) driver to be able to relax. Sometimes that means gunning it to get away, other times just ceasing all turns and lane changes and being stable at a reasonable speed.

All of this only when possible, of course. But I can only handle 2 or 3 cases where FSD (can we just agree that FSD means FSD(S) by default and could mean something else next year?) really embarrasses me before I become too gun-shy to keep testing that version. So because I enjoy testing, I work really hard to never get into a situation where another driver thinks I'm a total a$$hole. A bit of one, OK, you can't help what FSD does before you manage to disengage, but the last thing I give a hoot about when something like that happens is facilitating the evolution of FSD.

At this stage of the evolution of autonomous driving, I think it would have been doing a service to everyone (and especially we who are in the trenches risking life, limb and rims for the cause) for there to have always been an indicator light or something on the car to indicate the car is at the controls. When I read that Mercedes was forced to do it due to their feeble L3 support, I thought "That's really useful in a lot of ways."


I saw lots of cases of poor timing, but also lots more of good or excellent timing, so hopefully more scenarios will migrate toward the good end of that spectrum.

I agree that fighting off repeated attempts to make an unwanted lane change is one of the major annoyances of city streets FSD. I find v12 has reduced this problem noticeably, but not eliminated it.

I think one of the worst aspects is that you have no chance to cancel this action before it's flashing the signal for all other drivers to see. FSD already has a built-in capability (opt-in setting) to vibrate the steering wheel ahead of a lane change, but it doesn't seem to do this ahead of these ill-advised decisions to lane-hop to get around traffic - it just starts the blinker and you have to quickly try to cancel, which sometimes can make the situation worse if you get out of sync with FSD. It blinks left, I tap right to cancel, it doesn't respond immediately, I tap right again but it was already starting to cancel, now it blinks right. What a mess! Then it repeats again a couple hundred yards down the road. can't blame someone behind me for concluding that I'm an idiot.

If it would indicate (vibrate the wheel) its urge to change lanes before activating the blinker, and then give me a way to pre-cancel, that would be great. It would also give Tesla the intervention data for each instance of this common problem, without forcing an awkward disengagement and optional voice report.

How should the pre cancel action be commanded? One suggestion is a left-toggle on the scroll wheel. I know that would normally be used to switch Assertive->Average or Average->Chill. Arguably this downshifting of assertiveness could still be appropriate in case the driver is trying to pre-cancel a lane change. Alternatively, the left bump on the wheel could do the pre-cancel only, without downshifting the assertiveness setting in that specific instance. Maybe there is a better suggestion that doesn't overlap with existing control functionality.

In any case I think this capability would greatly reduce the stress on the FSD driver and on other confused drivers in the vicinity, while also giving Tesla highly useful intervention data for refinement training.

 

[spacecoin]

Why this person is not supervising and take over to stop?

Clearly it's great that Tesla isn't about to reveal a robotaxi any time soon. Safer than a human etc.

 

[TjckTock]

Same section of road:
V11: Ahhhh! I'm about to make a right turn and have no idea what lane I should be in. I know - let's try both!
V12: Effin' lane lines. Dey ain't da boss of me! Ima turn right!

(the yellow sign at 2s is a "Through traffic merge left" sign)

 

[Wnuk]

For the life of me I cant understand why people are NOT taking control in situations like these!

 

[TjckTock]

For the life of me I cant understand why people are NOT taking control in situations like these!

I had my hand on the wheel and there were no other cars around besides the MC in front of me so I decided to see what it would do. BTW, v12 *really* wants to be in that ending right lane. Even if I initiate a lane change to the left, it immediately switches back to the right. You can override it about three times but on the fourth, it ignores the override and moves over anyway. I just have to take it out of fsd for that section (yes I've left fb many times on both v11 and v12).

 

[spacecoin]

For the life of me I cant understand why people are NOT taking control in situations like these!

Can it have anything to do with the messaging that the system is “10x safer than a human” and “full self driving”?
ps. yes it’s effing stupid that they don’t take over.

 

[Musskiah]

Today I was visiting a friend in rural Ohio and FSD route planning was to turn off a rural road without a center line and take a right into his driveway. It slowed to under 5mph but instead of slowly turning into his driveway, it attempted to turn into a 3 foot ditch that overshot his driveway. It would have taken literally several seconds, and I had plenty of time to think about intervening or not as the passenger front tire crept slowly within a foot of the ditch. At this point I realized it was likely to continue driving into the ditch, intervened and reported it. Bummer

 

[mgs333]

Possible curious behavior. In east ATL there are a few through neighborhood streets that have recently had micro/mini roundabouts installed to slow traffic. Using the same intersections (not enlarged for a roundabout) they put small brick rounds and Yield signs. It is more of a hinderance and a slight right and then left to go straight but does follow roundabout rules. They are very new and not in Navigation Data yet so not sure if it will say the same "enter roundabout and take the 2ed exit" to go straight but I guess it will.

New to me and as coming up on the first in a series was a little concerned since it is a tight "juke" right, then left to go through. But V12 sliced around it like champ. One after another it continued with near perfection and yielding when necessary. Then a car pulled out ahead of me and on the next roundabout that car went straight over the bricks (they only stick up about ½" so no big deal). Oddly my car even a few car lengths back did the exact same thing and drove straight over. The car in front turned off and for all the rest it went back to going around them like it was supposed to.

It was almost as if my car saw the car in front drive over them and "decided" it could do the same. Maybe just a coincidence but it sure seemed my car was "copycatting" the car in front.

I've noticed FSD tends to follow the lead car in some situations even going back to V11. It could have been coded in V11 but it's interesting that even in V12, it might emulate the lead car's behavior but humans do tend to follow what others do, so in a way that still seems plausible it'll sometimes follow what the lead car is doing.

 

[Dutchie]

Compared to which version?

V11

 

[lzolman]

I agree that fighting off repeated attempts to make an unwanted lane change is one of the major annoyances of city streets FSD. I find v12 has reduced this problem noticeably, but not eliminated it.

I didn't use V11 off the highway long enough to find out lol.

I think one of the worst aspects is that you have no chance to cancel this action before it's flashing the signal for all other drivers to see.

Amen. Absolutely atrocious. I remember when I once had warning of lane changes and plenty of time to cancel. AFAIK that isn't even an option any more and hasn't been for some time?

FSD already has a built-in capability (opt-in setting) to vibrate the steering wheel ahead of a lane change, but it doesn't seem to do this ahead of these ill-advised decisions to lane-hop to get around traffic - it just starts the blinker and you have to quickly try to cancel, which sometimes can make the situation worse if you get out of sync with FSD. It blinks left, I tap right to cancel, it doesn't respond immediately, I tap right again but it was already starting to cancel, now it blinks right. What a mess! Then it repeats again a couple hundred yards down the road. can't blame someone behind me for concluding that I'm an idiot.

I feel I've been validated now, this is so my all-too-frequent experience.

If it would indicate (vibrate the wheel) its urge to change lanes before activating the blinker, and then give me a way to pre-cancel, that would be great. It would also give Tesla the intervention data for each instance of this common problem, without forcing an awkward disengagement and optional voice report.

You had me at pre-cancel.

How should the pre cancel action be commanded? One suggestion is a left-toggle on the scroll wheel. I know that would normally be used to switch Assertive->Average or Average->Chill. Arguably this downshifting of assertiveness could still be appropriate in case the driver is trying to pre-cancel a lane change. Alternatively, the left bump on the wheel could do the pre-cancel only, without downshifting the assertiveness setting in that specific instance. Maybe there is a better suggestion that doesn't overlap with existing control functionality.

Funny, I did not realize the left scroll already did something when you thumbed it left or right, and I was thinking how that would be a nice way to tell FSD to "give a bit more room" to the side of the car opposite to the push. I could've used it to not terrify that jogger the other day without having to disengage.

In any case I think this capability would greatly reduce the stress on the FSD driver and on other confused drivers in the vicinity, while also giving Tesla highly useful intervention data for refinement training.

Bravo, and thank you.

 

[Musskiah]

FSD 12.3.3 tried to ditch my car today in slow motion. I posted a detailed account in the "12.x (E to E AI) thread" FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

I am no longer pushing hopium until FSD 12.4.x

 

[bimmer88]

First drive with 12.3.4 and I've been using 11.4.7 prior. Works pretty darn good. FSD is actually usable now. Not perfect but it's actually easier to use it than not use it now. Some negatives are it still doesn't stop very smoothly but way better than before where it used to slam on the breaks. I did have to intervene once on the freeway where it was trying to move to the right lanes to exit. The lane it was trying to move into, also had another car getting in from the lane to the right of it. It did not stop trying to get in even with the other car already halfway into the lane so I had to disengage it. Looking forward to seeing how this works in a year with more AI training.

 

[JulienW]

Can it have anything to do with the messaging that the system is “10x safer than a human” and “full self driving”?
ps. yes it’s effing stupid that they don’t take over.

...or it could have to do with recording a video for views. I bet they had been through it before and came back to record. A couple of weird oddities. First the Stop sign is not mapped so likely new install. There was no Stop line and it seems to be in a strange spot before a bridge. Also what does the sign below it say? Plus it seems the road straight ahead has a Stop sign meaning the road to the right has the right of way So if going right why would you stop and with the view going straight why not a Yield sign? Strange looking intersection.

 

[JulienW]

FSD 12.3.3 tried to ditch my car today in slow motion. I posted a detailed account in the "12.x (E to E AI) thread" FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

I am no longer pushing hopium until FSD 12.4.x

Weird post since your post is right above your post saying where it is.

 

[Sharps97]

Tried it. Failed out as expected. Still doesn’t like making left turns. Or right turns. Likes to hug the right white line for some reason. Highly not recommended. Counting down until V13…

 

[Musskiah]

Weird post since your post is right above your post saying where it is.

Ha! Meant to put this in Investor thread. I'm going to leave it for fun. Just seeing who is paying attention....yeah....that's it

 

[Cherry Wine]

I got 12.3.4 on my Model X last night and took it out today. The most noticeable difference that I can see from 12.3.3 on my Model Y is that 12.3.4 doesn't seem to recognize speed humps very well. More generally, other than that, it seems to perform roughly the same.

 

[winfield100]

Aerial photography overlay set with the earth icon on the navigation map.

nope, won't turn into driveway, will keep tweaking