FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[kabin]

12.3.4 is a regression.

I didn't watch it all but whew dawgies it is much different. V12.3.4 needs a red carpet invite. The second attempt took about a minute and half of nail biting suspense. Maybe the goal is to discourage FSD use in these scenarios? It would make sense from a view of safety as it obviously doesn't have the chops. But it's also an indication that v12 isn't faster or more capable than the over played out v11's 300k+ lines of code.

No wonder they've had so man ADAS test sessions. Back to the drawing board they go.

 

[kabin]

12.3.4 is a regression.

Big time regression although could be by design. V12.3.4 gives new meaning to the term "creeped out."

In hindsight after watching a bit more there's enough poor decision making and laggy response that I doubt it's by design. This release just plain underperforms with faster cross flow traffic. And that was only moderate traffic for that intersection. I bet they are chasing an issue or two.

 

[TK211X]

I have 12.3.3 and I've never gotten a software update on the car since I bought it.

Bank A 2.17 GB
Bank B 1.82 GB

2018 Model 3 LR AWD

Wait wait.

Ok so looks like Model X has different model than Model 3s

This model 3 on 12.3.3 has 2.17 GB on bank A

My model 3 on 12.3.4 has 2.17 GB on Bank A as well.

Anyone with a model 3 going from 12.3.3 to 12.3.4 received no model change. It’s placebo.

Chuck cook is using the same version in both videos lmao.

 

[TK211X]

Mine says Bank A 2.11 GB and Bank B 2.17 GB, 2023 Model X 12.3.3

So maybe Model X and S have separate models from 3 and Y. This is what took them time.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Big time regression

Again, hard to regress on something that has always failed.

I like the new approach. Just need to be about 5 times as assertive.

I agree they may be attempting to limit use. Any human would just take over and go on these trivial turns. They'd more likely just take over on the completely unacceptable creep. I'd start pushing the accelerator all the way up to the stop line, then push it again to advance it to the edge of the road, then just see what happened. The creeping and stopping behavior is completely broken (as has been documented since 12.3).

 

[TK211X]

We need to start associating FSD model sizes with version numbers.

12.3.3 and 12.3.4 are the same thing for 3&Y at 2.17GB Data Bank.

Where X is getting 2.11 GB

 

[JulienW]

Wait wait.

Ok so looks like Model X has different model than Model 3s

This model 3 on 12.3.3 has 2.17 GB on bank A

My model 3 on 12.4.4 has 2.17 GB on Bank A as well.

Anyone with a model 3 going from 12.3.3 to 12.3.4 received no model change. It’s placebo.

Chuck cook is using the same version in both videos lmao.

My 19 model 3 AWD/12.3.3 is A: 2.11GB and B: 2.17 GB

 

[TK211X]

My 19 model 3 AWD/12.3.3 is A: 2.11GB and B: 2.17 GB

Tesla Engineers are literally grabbing popcorn and watching people in model 3s compare 12.3.3 to 12.3.4 when it’s the same model.

 

[enemji]

For me the only change I noticed on V12.3.4 was the car was a bit slower especially where it was going too fast previously. 2-4 mph slower and no unnecessary hard accelerations. Over-all better.

FSD continues to stop harshly when it decides not to proceed thru the yellow. I always thought on V11 FSD decisions on yellow/red lights was correct. Now FSD seem too cautious on some yellow lights and stops suddenly.

Who demanded that car should stop on yellow? What do we do on red then? Get a BJ?

 

[JulienW]

Tesla Engineers are literally grabbing popcorn and watching people in model 3s compare 12.3.3 to 12.3.4 when it’s the same model.

When it came out this thread I said I bet it is the SAME just adding legacy cars. It could be 13.3.3.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.1 and some would swear it was revolution in advancements and regressions.

 

[lzolman]

My hypothesis: the directionals in V12 go on based on angle of the trajectory, and ignore navigation info totally.
If anyone immediately knows I'm wrong, please share. And ignore the rest of this post.

I've been testing my funky intersection down the street (anyone from L.A. remember Seymour on Fright Night, heading off to crash the party down the street?). This is the one shaped like the Greek letter psi:

Forest St & N Main St · Middleton, MA 01949

Intersection

www.google.com

If you're heading toward the intersection on Forest St. and go "straight" across Rt. 114, you'll be heading up Essex St.

I haven't seen it handled correctly (for some loose definition of "correctly") since V11 maybe. The first wrong thing that happens is the left directional goes on. FSD knows it's going "straight" as per the nav, but it always turns on the left blinker.

What happens when the light turns green has varied, but it has never been pretty.

Coming back the other way has its own host of problems as well, but it consistently turns on the right blinker. Again, when the light turns green, any number of different things can happen, most of them ugly. It did make it once or twice onto the correct path, and I can't really identify why.

So I'd love for someone in the FSD group to know about this intersection, but have NFI how to get it to them. Maybe someone from there actually reads this board. No, I'm not holding my breath.

The actual reason I posted was to ask about the directional behavior. It seems to be based on intersection geometry alone. Thoughts?

 

[JulienW]

Who demanded that car should stop on yellow? What do we do on red then? Get a BJ?

This is likely a consequence of training video data based on the "best drivers" who are often more conservative. Same for the slowness in some city street situations.

 

[TK211X]

Who’s going to tell Chuck the versions from 12.3.3 and 12.3.4 on his model 3 are the same?

 

[Ramphex]

Who’s going to tell Chuck the versions from 12.3.3 and 12.3.4 on his model 3 are the same?

Why would he care lol? Tesla can literally release the same exact code with 3 different firmware versions and it’ll just be easy content for the YouTubers to make $$

 

[Joboo7777]

12.3.4 is a regression.

Some of the issues Chuck has highlighted I’ve had in 12.3.3 so I’m not so sure it’s a regression but more likely inconsistent behavior. I think you really need to put a considerable amount of driving time in to uncover version specific behavior especially if the changes are subtle.

 

[TK211X]

Some of the issues Chuck has highlighted I’ve had in 12.3.3 so I’m not so sure it’s a regression but more likely inconsistent behavior. I think you really need to put a considerable amount of driving time in to uncover version specific behavior especially if the changes are subtle.

12.3.3 and 12.3.4 are the same exact models for Model 3

 

[JulienW]

12.3.3 and 12.3.4 are the same exact models for Model 3

I tell people over and over and over that there is no V12 on limited access highways.

 

[Joboo7777]

I was watching the latest TMC Podcast and @SteelClouds mentioned that even though Highway driving is still on 11 code that he noticed improvements. I agree with this statement. Even though the code is still on V11 doesn’t necessarily mean that Tesla has frozen all enhancements to it. Lane changing has definitely gotten better on highway since V12 was introduced. I drive the same stretch of highway everyday and there has been noticeable Improvements that have been consistent over that past month.

I’m starting to wonder if they are going to keep the highway stack separate for a bit so they can introduce hands free driving?

 

[JulienW]

......I’m starting to wonder if they are going to keep the highway stack separate for a bit so they can introduce hands free driving?

Even though Highway seems easer that Streets I suspect it is the speed that makes it harder to implement. After all we had NoA in V10 and Waymo will NOT go on Interstates (though they are testing).

Hands free driving is a similar problem to the auto windshield wipers. Tesla is trying to use the "wrong" hardware supplemented by AI to solve the problem. NHTSA is probably going to be skeptical since Tesla can't guarantee eye tracking the way other OEMs can.

 

[Joboo7777]

Even though Highway seems easer that Streets I suspect it is the speed that makes it harder to implement. After all we had NoA in V10 and Waymo will NOT go on Interstates (though they are testing).

Hands free driving is a similar problem to the auto windshield wipers. Tesla is trying to use the "wrong" hardware supplemented by AI to solve the problem. NHTSA is probably going to be skeptical since Tesla can't guarantee eye tracking the way other OEMs can.

Interesting. What’s the difference in how other OEMs track attentiveness?

Btw.. Not challenging your response,, I’m just not educated enough to understand it.