FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[fasteddie7]

It seems quite clear, as many of us have suspected for years, that Tesla can tweak parameters that feed into FSD/autopark/other behavior independent of an official version update. That seems to be what has happened here.

It makes perfect sense and is pretty easy to implement...you're just sending a variable over the network. Easy peasy.

I wonder if there’s server side switches for a lot of things we don’t realize. The auto shift comes to mind since we’ve been discussing it. Some folks updated and it wasn’t present (the auto shift from park option was still there) then they reported it randomly showing up one day.

 

[SSDTester#1]

New trip planner in 2024.20.1

Tesla quietly packs new navigation and entertainment options in update

Tesla quietly bolstered its navigation with a new trip planner option and map updates, but that's not all.

www.teslarati.com

Such an Apple move lol, add a feature that should've been there for years

 

[JulienW]

I believe there's only 3 pools:

1) Employees working on FSD
2) Shills/influencers/etc
3) Us and everyone else who paid/subscribed

I believe it is 4 (or more)

• Employees (likely assorted groups running different versions and builds)
• Influencers (24.15.5/12.4.1)
• "Early Access/testers" 24.3.25 moving>24.14.9 and holding for 12.4.x
• Normal users 24.14.x moving>14.20.x staying on 12.3.6 until 12.4.x becomes standard

 

[SSDTester#1]

I believe it is 4 (or more)

• Employees (likely assorted groups running different versions and builds)
• Influencers (24.15.5/12.4.1)
• "Early Access" 24.3.25 moving>24.14.9 and holding for 12.4.x
• Normal users 24.14.x moving>14.20.x

Interesting, my non-FSD Model Y got 2014.20.1 so I wonder if you're right or if those are just all non-FSD people moving over to it.

Can any new(er) enrollments confirm?

 

[rlsd]

Interesting, my non-FSD Model Y got 2014.20.1 so I wonder if you're right or if those are just all non-FSD people moving over to it.

Can any new(er) enrollments confirm?

Why don't you subscribe FSD(j) now to see if it works?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Don’t think I’ve seen or heard Elon comment on the cabin camera since way back when he was slamming the idea of using it for driver monitoring because it was inaccurate — Tesla’s cabin camera was never intended for driver monitoring, which is why there are restrictions on how and when it entirely replaces the wheel torque. Elon previously said the cabin camera was there to monitor Robotaxi users.

Maybe that was the role of the camera in very early release, but it had changed a while back. The attention detection NN was added a long time ago (variables found way back in 2020), and since then, IR lights have been added and the latest version changed the angle so that the driver's hands could be seen.

Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

A Tesla hacker has revealed what Tesla’s driver-facing camera in Model 3 and Model Y is looking for — hinting...

electrek.co

If Tesla positioned the camera correctly and used different/better hardware, the restrictions wouldn’t be required. The fact that we’re here in 2024 and people are clamouring to now have the cabin camera replacing wheel torque is funny tbh after watching this all unfold, can imagine what Elon thinks about it and his previous stance.

I'm not saying Elon wouldn't jump at it if NHTSA would allow hands free even without camera detection, but obviously they did not. I'm not sure if you were aware but NHTSA looked into it immediately after Elon made the tweet about releasing hands free mode. This is likely why it took so long for the feature to actually be released.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/nhtsa-elon-musk-tweet-fsd-beta-turn-off-safety-feature/

As for adding a dedicated camera, I find that extremely unlikely. Elon is on record as against "unnecessary" parts (see wiper detection, radar/USS removal, stalk removal, etc). They will likely just continually optimize the cabin camera for dual use. I was initially skeptical using the cabin camera would satisfy NHTSA, but unless they clamp down, looks like so far it is ok.

As for forum attitudes on camera based detection, although I am personally fine using the wheel nag system, I have said before that camera based detection is a better mechanism. The wheel nag complaints have been pretty long running here in the forums. Camera detection comes with its own trade-offs, but it may help address those complaints.

Tesla recalls 2 million vehicles to limit use of Autopilot

One can drive to the local Tesla SC and use their free wifi, which I have done a few times this year. But most times I don’t want to drive the 17 minutes to that facility because the final one km long access road to that facility also is the main feeder road for a huge gravel pit…and any...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Tronguy]

Just stopping by to complain about 12.3.6 in fog. I got 3 strikes when FSD gave up in heavy fog when FSD was the driver that couldn’t handle the conditions and bailed.

OOoKaaay. FSD in heavy rain/fog/mist, in my experience, first puts up a "FSD may be degraded" message, usually when the first rain drops fall; then drops the speed set point (at least, on limited access highways) to first, 5 mph above the posted limit; then the limit; then 5 mph below the limit, as the mist/rain/whatever gets heavier; then says, pretty much, "Unavailable". And then it's one's turn to drive. As the mist/rain/fog/whatever decreases, it reverses the process.

But nowhere in any of this was a Strike. What, exactly, did you do to earn a strike? Keep on hitting the shift lever to put it in FSD when FSD wasn't available? Inquiring minds want to know.

These days, strikes with 12.3.6 involve taking one's eyes off the road and/or not torquing the wheel back and forth, as per usual. So your experience with strikes is.. odd.

 

[JulienW]

Interesting, my non-FSD Model Y got 2014.20.1 so I wonder if you're right or if those are just all non-FSD people moving over to it.

Can any new(er) enrollments confirm?

Not necessarily just NON FSD but also inconsistent subscribers and maybe users Tesla deems (for whatever reason) not to be included in testing. Maybe they don't engage enough or whatever reasons Tesla may use.

 

[SSDTester#1]

Why don't you subscribe FSD(j) now to see if it works?

Because fool me one shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. I will not be subscribing or buying junk again unless it removes all nags and can cart me around while I play on my phone trolling TMC.

Also it’s already on 2024.20.1 so it wouldn’t be a useful metric. I’m curious to see if there’s anyone who is a new subscriber who was on an earlier software (prior to 2024.14.9) and got updated to 2024.20.1 instead of 2024.14.9 after subscribing.

Not necessarily just NON FSD but also inconsistent subscribers and maybe users Tesla deems (for whatever reason) not to be included in testing. Maybe they don't engage enough or whatever reasons Tesla may use.

I’m actually very curious to see if there’s still any sort of “testing” group or if shills and influencers are the only ones testing and we’re just the gen pop.

 

[Tronguy]

How many friends do you have total? How many of those have Teslas and understand everything about them? How many out of those have FSD? Use that to make a ratio with friends total and that’ll give you a rough idea of how many people watch his videos that know he is tricking, or know how it should work, or know nothing at all and are drooling over Elon’s super cool new technology.

My ratio from the above is about 200:1. From all of my friends in real life who own Teslas, I’m the only one who has FSD. The rest don’t care to spend the money on it and most of the time don’t even use the AP (including my SO with Model Y)

Um. Got three or so friends with relatively new MYs. One of them has bought FSD, another is thinking about it for long drives.

Of course, as a Founding Member of the Junk Brigade, I imagine that any conversations with your friends about FSD are going to end with, "Don't Get It, Don't Get It! You take your life in your hands, it's dangerous! It should be banned from the Earth and Elon and members of the entire company should be put in jail for LIFE!! DON'T DO IT!!"

So, I'm unsurprised by your ratio.

My comments to one and all who ask are, "It's a student driver. It makes mistakes. It makes fewer these days. (And list a couple of the zanier things that the software has done.) If you're interested, do a trial, try a few drives, then think about using it regular."

One went for it right off; the other thinks that local isn't worth it, but trips, maybe.

 

[SSDTester#1]

Um. Got three or so friends with relatively new MYs. One of them has bought FSD, another is thinking about it for long drives.

Of course, as a Founding Member of the Junk Brigade, I imagine that any conversations with your friends about FSD are going to end with, "Don't Get It, Don't Get It! You take your life in your hands, it's dangerous! It should be banned from the Earth and Elon and members of the entire company should be put in jail for LIFE!! DON'T DO IT!!"

So, I'm unsurprised by your ratio.

My comments to one and all who ask is, "It's a student driver. It makes mistakes. It makes fewer these days. (And list a couple of the zanier things that the software has done.) If you're interested, do a trial, try a few drives, then think about using it regular.

One went for it right off; the other thinks that local isn't worth it, but trips, maybe.

The junk brigade has nothing to do with it. If my friends ask for MY opinion, I’ll tell them. Fortunately for them they all got to try it during the one month free trial and came up to their own conclusion regardless of my opinion. I wish there was a one month free trial when I first got it, it would’ve spared you all from reading my nonsense in this thread

What does it do on trips that AP doesn’t? Pay $8-10k for lane change?

Edit: funny to think of it, the one feature everyone unanimously liked was the visualizer.

 

[Yelobird]

Such an Apple move lol, add a feature that should've been there for years

Such a Ramphex move lol, get something for free and complain.

 

[Tronguy]

Because fool me one shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. I will not be subscribing or buying junk again unless it removes all nags and can cart me around while I play on my phone trolling TMC.

Also it’s already on 2024.20.1 so it wouldn’t be a useful metric. I’m curious to see if there’s anyone who is a new subscriber who was on an earlier software (prior to 2024.14.9) and got updated to 2024.20.1 instead of 2024.14.9 after subscribing.

I’m actually very curious to see if there’s still any sort of “testing” group or if shills and influencers are the only ones testing and we’re just the gen pop.

So, let me get this straight.

You don't have FSD, "J" or not.

You show up here to tell us all just how dangerous it is.

You seem to claim that There Will Never Be Any Change In the Software, So If It Wasn't Good For Me Back Then, It Will Never Be Good, Ever.

Then, on the other hand, there are people showing up on this thread who say, "I've got umpty-um miles without an intervention." Along with the occasional "Wife Approved" stickers of approval.

C'mon, @Ramphex. When you had it and were complaining, your complaints probably had merit, and so I read them. Now.. you're sounding like a tool of the short sellers.

 

[SSDTester#1]

Such a Ramphex move lol, get something for free and complain.

1) I didn’t get anything for free, I don’t have the new trip planner
2) I’m not complaining about it

 

[SSDTester#1]

So, let me get this straight.

You don't have FSD, "J" or not.

You show up here to tell us all just how dangerous it is.

You seem to claim that There Will Never Be Any Change In the Software, So If It Wasn't Good For Me Back Then, It Will Never Be Good, Ever.

Then, on the other hand, there are people showing up on this thread who say, "I've got umpty-um miles without an intervention." Along with the occasional "Wife Approved" stickers of approval.

C'mon, @Ramphex. When you had it and were complaining, your complaints probably had merit, and so I read them. Now.. you're sounding like a tool of the short sellers.

Turn your phone sideways to answer your own questions.

Edit: I also dare you to find a single post where I said it’s dangerous. I’ll give you $5 Venmo or ApplePay. My BIGGEST complaint about it is the nuisance of the steering wheel nags and the cabin camera nags. For me it’s easier to just drive manually if I have to tug/put pressure on the steering wheel and stare straight. God forbid I look at the center screen for too long to pick a different song, or check my phone, the car will have a stroke.

 

[gottagofast]

Once they get down to less than 10% of people on 3.25 the rest will be saved for 12.4 testing

 

[arbitrage000]

There is no new trip planner. I you read the article it says it was a reference found in the code and may come in the future.

 

[bdwalters]

The junk brigade has nothing to do with it. If my friends ask for MY opinion, I’ll tell them. Fortunately for them they all got to try it during the one month free trial and came up to their own conclusion regardless of my opinion. I wish there was a one month free trial when I first got it, it would’ve spared you all from reading my nonsense in this thread

What does it do on trips that AP doesn’t? Pay $8-10k for lane change?

Edit: funny to think of it, the one feature everyone unanimously liked was the visualizer.

I actually don’t like the visualizer. It’s fun for a few days, but I would rather just use the space for something else.

 

[Tronguy]

Turn your phone sideways to answer your own questions.

Edit: I also dare you to find a single post where I said it’s dangerous. I’ll give you $5 Venmo or ApplePay. My BIGGEST complaint about it is the nuisance of the steering wheel nags and the cabin camera nags. For me it’s easier to just drive manually if I have to tug/put pressure on the steering wheel and stare straight. God forbid I look at the center screen for too long to pick a different song, or check my phone, the car will have a stroke.

All right. So, I take it back about the fear and loathing.

But.. something doesn't seem quite right in your description. The SO and I drive all over the place with FSD and its monitoring. This year, it's been three or four trips back and forth between NJ and Boston as well as a fun trip from NJ to Dallas and back for the eclipse; that last was on 12.3.x, I forget.

No strikes. It takes, what, five or ten seconds or so of not looking out to get the warning about paying attention, and that includes checking side mirrors, side windows, talking to the passenger, and the occasional longish check of the screen.

The torquing is a bit more problematical, I guess, but either driving with one hand on one side of the wheel or using two hands, one on each side, and gently torquing back and forth with breathing usually does the trick.

On my last trip to Boston a few days ago I did occasionally switch FM or streaming stations. No problems, but the idea is to glance down, hit some buttons, back up again, glance down, hit another one or two, and Done. The Big Icons on FM Tuner and/or Streaming Stations make it easy.

As far as the phone goes: It's rigged with Bluetooth so I can answer and make calls with a couple of button clicks on the wheel. Or maybe hitting the phone icon on the screen. Texting works, too, verbally, and once one gets used to the interface, keeping eyes up is trivial.

Now, I'm not surfing the web or texting on the phone when driving.. that's kind of a no-no. What are you doing?

 

[JulienW]

I actually don’t like the visualizer. It’s fun for a few days, but I would rather just use the space for something else.

.....Just turn it off.