FSD, would like that $1K back please

[Knightshade]

Some will claim you got to enjoy it during that period. But I disagree.

Given FSD delivered 0 features during my ownership I'm not sure what I supposedly "got to enjoy"?

The only thing that reliably works is autosteer and speed. We did not get EAP yet. NoA is pretty risky, especially phantom braking. The whole thing is beta (even in Tesla’s words).

FWIW, I've never had phantom braking in thousands of miles on EAP and NoA, but I agree I've seen plenty of folks who seem to report it- not sure what the difference is.

As to beta, it doesn't really mean what a lot of folks think it means....Musk said (years ago) he was using the term to refer to the fact they didn't have a billion+ miles of data yet to verify how reliable the system was (and that they might need more long term)

Elon Musk on Twitter

All that said, the fact they moved NoA to FSD (meaning HW3) suggests there'll be a pretty major improvement coming with that, since a lot of the places it seems shaky/overly cautious/etc are likely resolved once it can actually process all the cameras without gutting the framerates to do it.... (though I certainly don't count that as an "FSD feature" since that's not what they sold me when I paid them for FSD)

Not to mention the car can’t even do BSM, Rain Sensitive Wipers or Auto Highbeam correctly yet.

BSM has worked fine for me- though the notification system will always be crap compared to the companies who spend an extra $2 to put lights in the side mirrors.

Wipers- same problem with saving $2 not using a real sensor, but less reliable than BSM.

Auto highbeams though has worked perfectly far as I can tell (I live somewhat in the "country" so I use this quite a bit)

Yeah $1k might cool some jets but it really should be $3k. Because we were told with the order it would be $11k if you didn’t buy it with the car. REGARDLESS of new pricing.

Agreed... but Tesla seems to continue to operate as if nobody at the company knows how business actually works... see also the "We are closing all our stores and cutting prices 6%" followed the next week with "Actually we are not closing most of our stores and prices are going up 3%"

it's like they announced the decision, and THEN looked at what it would involve to actually do, and were like "Whoa! Apparently there's these things called leases we signed....WHO KNEW???"

If they can’t afford the cash then give us Store/Service credit on the account (that goes with the car if sold). Lots of good faith gestures they could do. Extended service contract, free super charging. Performance unlock. That would cost them very little in the long run. And earn back some loyalty they have recently eroded.

Yup- I think I listed some options in an earlier post (maybe another thread?)....pretty similar to your list... I THINK giving everyone who bought FSD a $1000 refund and "free routine maintenance during the 4 year warranty" would be their cheapest option that still "feels" like reasonable value to the average customer, since markup on service seems kinda nuts for Tesla so it'd "look" good.... I'd personally prefer an extended warranty but they don't even offer those for actual cash on the 3 right now.

 

[mswlogo]

Yup- I think I listed some options in an earlier post (maybe another thread?)....pretty similar to your list... I THINK giving everyone who bought FSD a $1000 refund and "free routine maintenance during the 4 year warranty" would be their cheapest option that still "feels" like reasonable value to the average customer, since markup on service seems kinda nuts for Tesla so it'd "look" good.... I'd personally prefer an extended warranty but they don't even offer those for actual cash on the 3 right now.

Now that I think about it. If they needed cash, they could have offered extended warranties. And Pay X now or Y later (which is common with extended warranties). But now they probably burned that bridge by making people think to wait for a lower price.

BSM. What BSM? as far as I'm concerned it has none right now. I have it on my Jeep and I never use the side view mirror light, that light is useless, every time a car goes by it lights up. I tune the light out.

What does work is, I get an audible beep if my turn signal is on in a direction that another car is in the path of. That's all it has to do. Tesla does nothing audible w.r.t. BSM as far as I know. At least on my 2018.50.6 build.

My Jeep also has rear "Cross Path" detection (used by the same radar used for BSM). Most cars with Radar based BSM have this safety feature as well. It will beep if a car (or person, or bike or child) is potentially in your path when backing up. I find this a more valuable safety feature than BSM. So as far as BSM goes on a Tesla. It has none, right now. I imaging with software (and probably HW3) they will eventually have both. And hopefully eventually works better than auto wipers and auto highbeam. All based on Camera/ Neural Net processing.

Phantom braking has not happened to often or too harsh for me. But if someone was on my ass it could have been bad. Makes me sometimes not want to use NoA at all, even when it appears perfectly safe. Middle lane, clear makings not heavy traffic.

 

[Knightshade]

What does work is, I get an audible beep if my turn signal is on in a direction that another car is in the path of. That's all it has to do. Tesla does nothing audible w.r.t. BSM as far as I know. At least on my 2018.50.6 build.

Audible alert has been added in the most recent SW updates (newer than 50.6)- it absolutely has BSM in 50.6 though, only difference is only warning is visual.

My Jeep also has rear "Cross Path" detection (used by the same radar used for BSM). Most cars with Radar based BSM have this safety feature as well.

Tesla BSM is camera based, no rear radar on the car.... that said I'd expect (at least with HW3) they'd be able to offer something similar based on the rear facing side cameras

 

[run-the-joules]

Now that I think about it. If they needed cash, they could have offered extended warranties. And Pay X now or Y later (which is common with extended warranties). But now they probably burned that bridge by making people think to wait for a lower price.

BSM. What BSM? as far as I'm concerned it has none right now. I have it on my Jeep and I never use the side view mirror light, that light is useless, every time a car goes by it lights up. I tune the light out.

What does work is, I get an audible beep if my turn signal is on in a direction that another car is in the path of. That's all it has to do. Tesla does nothing audible w.r.t. BSM as far as I know. At least on my 2018.50.6 build.

My Jeep also has rear "Cross Path" detection (used by the same radar used for BSM). Most cars with Radar based BSM have this safety feature as well. It will beep if a car (or person, or bike or child) is potentially in your path when backing up. I find this a more valuable safety feature than BSM. So as far as BSM goes on a Tesla. It has none, right now. I imaging with software (and probably HW3) they will eventually have both. And hopefully eventually works better than auto wipers and auto highbeam. All based on Camera/ Neural Net processing.

Phantom braking has not happened to often or too harsh for me. But if someone was on my ass it could have been bad. Makes me sometimes not want to use NoA at all, even when it appears perfectly safe. Middle lane, clear makings not heavy traffic.

Funny thing, I set off the BSM beep today when I did a somewhat aggressive overtake on a bus, when i was merging back in. Definitely works in 2019.5.15!

 

[more863-also]

Some will claim you got to enjoy it during that period. But I disagree.

The only thing that reliably works is autosteer and speed. We did not get EAP yet. NoA is pretty risky, especially phantom braking. The whole thing is beta (even in Tesla’s words).

Not to mention the car can’t even do BSM, Rain Sensitive Wipers or Auto Highbeam correctly yet.

Yeah $1k might cool some jets but it really should be $3k. Because we were told with the order it would be $11k if you didn’t buy it with the car. REGARDLESS of new pricing.

If they can’t afford the cash then give us Store/Service credit on the account (that goes with the car if sold). Lots of good faith gestures they could do. Extended service contract, free super charging. Performance unlock. That would cost them very little in the long run. And earn back some loyalty they have recently eroded.

This. I would have gotten basic AP if it were an option, NoA and the worthless autopark feature I wouldn't pay a dime for.

 

[mswlogo]

Audible alert has been added in the most recent SW updates (newer than 50.6)- it absolutely has BSM in 50.6 though, only difference is only warning is visual.

Visual BSM alerts is 100% useless.

When I drive, especially when maneuvering lanes, my eyes are on the road.

I have never even noticed a BSM alert visually, once in 5 months or 5000 miles. Didn’t even know it had any form of BSM, it’s such lame implementation.

As far as I’m concerned it still has NO BSM.

I’m looking forward to experiencing BSM for the first time when the next update comes.

I know it doesn’t have radar and worry it will never work as good as radar based systems. I’ll keep an open mind though.

 

[mswlogo]

Funny thing, I set off the BSM beep today when I did a somewhat aggressive overtake on a bus, when i was merging back in. Definitely works in 2019.5.15!

Funny thing is most people are still on 2018.50.6.

My point is we have got very little to show for paying $8k extra for car that to date has not even done BSM correctly. It is part of a point I’m trying to make towards the argument that you got to enjoy such a smart car during the period you paid $8k and they now offered it for just $5k.

Don’t get me wrong. I love the car. It has huge potential. But folks defending these recent practices of Tesla need to take a step back and look at how they are screwing their early adopters. Ones that they should be rewarding.

Why do you think there is so much discussion on the topic. Folks are rightfully upset. My hope is Tesla (as they have before) make things right. But the longer this goes the harder it will be to repair.

There are some threads about price drop and car value. Which I think are silly. That was always expected. Just the base $35k model will tend to push your value down and was always planned.

But the EAP/FSD prepaid thing has really taken some owners a step back.

 

[m3tx]

Its software, this happens with every piece of software I have ever bought. It gets cheaper with time, and yes, sometimes even before I have gotten my copy. I understand why people are upset, but its just a fact of life for software development.

Great, since it happens all the time, give me one, just one example of such software that was once available for pre-order, had its price change during pre-order window with no refund to people in the queue.

Let's even assume you misspoke and didn't mean software, gimme one example of any product, doesn't even have to be software. Should be easy to find since it happens all the time.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Now that I think about it. If they needed cash, they could have offered extended warranties. And Pay X now or Y later (which is common with extended warranties). But now they probably burned that bridge by making people think to wait for a lower price.

BSM. What BSM? as far as I'm concerned it has none right now. I have it on my Jeep and I never use the side view mirror light, that light is useless, every time a car goes by it lights up. I tune the light out.

What does work is, I get an audible beep if my turn signal is on in a direction that another car is in the path of. That's all it has to do. Tesla does nothing audible w.r.t. BSM as far as I know. At least on my 2018.50.6 build.

My Jeep also has rear "Cross Path" detection (used by the same radar used for BSM). Most cars with Radar based BSM have this safety feature as well. It will beep if a car (or person, or bike or child) is potentially in your path when backing up. I find this a more valuable safety feature than BSM. So as far as BSM goes on a Tesla. It has none, right now. I imaging with software (and probably HW3) they will eventually have both. And hopefully eventually works better than auto wipers and auto highbeam. All based on Camera/ Neural Net processing.

Phantom braking has not happened to often or too harsh for me. But if someone was on my ass it could have been bad. Makes me sometimes not want to use NoA at all, even when it appears perfectly safe. Middle lane, clear makings not heavy traffic.

Now that's a good idea.....

Sell some warranties.

Good suggestion.

 

[m3tx]

I think it's interesting that the OP is more concerned about the $1K price difference between us (those who bought EAP+FSD) versus EAP only owners who can now get it for $2K.

Those are VERY different situations and the reason for my original post in the first place.
See, if I were to buy the car today vs when I bought it last July, I would have saved $6k.
But so is true for a bunch of products over my house, prices just fluctuate, and despite what a lot of people seem to think around here, most of us are reasonable and accept that fact.

The post was about the fact that I have YET to receive FSD; AND that the ONLY reason to buy it then was the promise , ON THE PURCHASE PAGE, that buying it then was a guarantee of saving $2K vs buying it later. I am even OK with not saving that money after all (broken promise, we're used to that), but at least don't reverse it to the point that I am losing $1K now (which is now a scam)

 

[mswlogo]

Its software, this happens with every piece of software I have ever bought. It gets cheaper with time, and yes, sometimes even before I have gotten my copy. I understand why people are upset, but its just a fact of life for software development.

It’s SOFTWARE that had two PRICES (two options) One if you buy now and another if you buy later. PERIOD.

Some of us assumed they would stick to that deal.

And prices for new car buyers DID NOT get cheaper. The total is still $8k now or $11k later. It has nothing to do with prices getting cheaper. All they did was rearrange the definitions.

It was this whacko idea to raise some cash with zero thought into how customers would perceive it. And what the long term costs will be. And in the long run, they might screw them too.

 

[Tessa1]

I feel bad for those that have prepaid. Sucks to be in that camp. Tesla is in survival mode, they really are. It is not easy being a car company, let alone one with the ambition of Tesla. Many people did NOT purchase EAP or FSD at time they bought because they didn't feel the value was there compared to the price. Tesla now knows how many cars of theirs are on the road and have EAP and/or FSD. They need cash now. This latest change in price is an effort to get some cash in hand at crucial time for a product that is mostly software, and one that didn't get the revenue they expected initially. You paid the price you paid and believed it had value at that price. Tesla now has to market to rest of vehicle owners who didn't purchase initially and whom didn't believe the value existed to do so. No one owes anyone anything. Enjoy the ride and be proud you're an electrical vehicle owner driving the coolest cars on the road.

 

[emmz0r]

I feel bad for those that have prepaid. Sucks to be in that camp. Tesla is in survival mode, they really are. It is not easy being a car company, let alone one with the ambition of Tesla. Many people did NOT purchase EAP or FSD at time they bought because they didn't feel the value was there compared to the price. Tesla now knows how many cars of theirs are on the road and have EAP and/or FSD. They need cash now. This latest change in price is an effort to get some cash in hand at crucial time for a product that is mostly software, and one that didn't get the revenue they expected initially. You paid the price you paid and believed it had value at that price. Tesla now has to market to rest of vehicle owners who didn't purchase initially and whom didn't believe the value existed to do so. No one owes anyone anything. Enjoy the ride and be proud you're an electrical vehicle owner driving the coolest cars on the road.

Very easy to fix for me as an EAP+FSD buyer in 2018:

1. retrofit HW3 now. Not in 6 months, but NOW.
2. give early access to FSD specific software NOW.
3. give premium connectivity

 

[mswlogo]

Very easy to fix for me as an EAP+FSD buyer in 2018:

1. retrofit HW3 now. Not in 6 months, but NOW.
2. give early access to FSD specific software NOW.
3. give premium connectivity

The HW3 is ready when it's ready.
Same goes for software. Sure I like early access, but I'm not paying $3k for it. Nor do I care if I get HW3 6 months sooner.
In fact, I prefer get it later, after the sure chaos (and bugs) at first and what do you want to bet there will be Rev B, C, D of HW3
I'll take Rev D please.

Premium connectively, I forgot about that. Great idea.

I think we all understand Tesla needed cash infusion, I guess, I thought I heard they had $3 billion in cash. But perhaps they need to still make the quarter not look to bad. Everyone is fine with that.

I think they probably would have got more if they asked for donations.

This stupid scheme might get a few $$$ this quarter, but the scheme as a whole is gonna hurt Tesla fairly quickly.
Like convincing NEW buyers to pay $8k. Would I pay $8k on a new car today. No way (and I did in Sep 2018).
And I will tell everyone thinking of buying a Tesla not too either. I do care about the company, buy I care about my friends more.

 

[emmz0r]

The HW3 is ready when it's ready.
Same goes for software. Sure I like early access, but I'm not paying $3k for it. Nor do I care if I get HW3 6 months sooner.
In fact, I prefer get it later, after the sure chaos (and bugs) at first and what do you want to bet there will be Rev B, C, D of HW3
I'll take Rev D please.

HW3 is complete and is shipped in new cars.
Early Access Program is about testing bleeding edge features, you can always opt out

 

[Knightshade]

HW3 is complete and is shipped in new cars.

I'm unaware of any evidence of this- including from folks taking delivery of new cars right now.

Are you?

 

[mswlogo]

HW3 is complete and is shipped in new cars.
Early Access Program is about testing bleeding edge features, you can always opt out

I’ve seen the quality of their blessed “Beta” code and have no real interest in putting my life in the hands of their bleeding edge “Alpha” code. Again, I have no problem waiting.

Got a link to back up HW3 is now shipping. Ideally in the USA.

 

[eethan]

"Early access beta tester" - no thanks. My EAP can't even correctly navigate on autopilot >80% of the time. Beta testing FSD will only bring more anxiety to my morning commute. I wouldn't even beta test FSD if Tesla paid me.

Seriously - not many people paid for FSD, so it won't cost Tesla that much to throw a bone to those customers who put the most faith in Tesla.

All this craziness is Tesla's doing - they wrongly told us that AP and FSD would cost more if we purchased after delivery.

 

[emmz0r]

I’ve seen the quality of their blessed “Beta” code and have no real interest in putting my life in the hands of their bleeding edge “Alpha” code. Again, I have no problem waiting.

Got a link to back up HW3 is now shipping. Ideally in the USA.

Hm I thought it was shipping in new cars, I might have been wrong, then.
But the design is complete, and is being tested by select Tesla employees. I would like to opt in as well, because I love testing new stuff. You might not want this, but there should at least be an option!

 

[jlund]

FSD is back to 5k.

I guess anyone who paid 4K for after delivery (like myself) isn’t going to receive any refund given the 2k was a temporary cash injection option.

Still sad the price for preordering a product can fluctuate by >50% from one week to the next.